In reply to a post by 4M2:

FB has now confirmed that it was a cease and reprovide done by BT Retail, possibly PN handled the change of number in the same way as they would a home move (perhaps a lady in the home move dept. handled this,) if that is the situation and FB was to leave PN within 12 months FB would be clobbered for £65 plus any early termination fees on the 12 month contract? And even a cease of broadband charge if personal circumstances change?

Yes but me wasn't in contract in the first place...so is what i'm saying is right?
if I knew that Plusnet didn't have any hold over my new connection with BT + no contract with Plusnet anyway. I could of freely found a new provider without any cease charge being enforced by Plusnet because BT already ceased the line

It seems that BT retail had ceased your line because a direct switch from Primus to BT Basic was not possible. Because the phone line was ceased and no longer active on the old number Plusnet presumably ceased broadband on that line. If you had decided not to remain with Plusnet then you would have been liable to a broadband cease charge.

However since you contacted Plusnet (home move dept. lady?) and gave them your new number (the reprovide) they were able to offer you broadband on the new phone number and you would not be liable for the cease of broadband charge on the old Primus phone number. What is in questionable though is that you were not offered a "no contract" deal rather than a 12 month contract.

XRaySpeX has pointed out that if you had taken a "no contract" deal then you would have been liable to a £65 penalty if you left Plusnet within 12 months on the basis of their House Move terms and conditions. So if that was the case then it was beneficial for you to take a 12 month contract and only be liable for termination of contract fees should you migrate within the 12 months since you were coming from an existing 'out-of-minimum-term' contract.

Probably best if you start a new thread by summarising your problems and linking to this thread if you wish to continue with this discussion because this thread is getting rather long

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 07-Aug-13 14:56:37)

I believe everybody discussing the broadband cease is getting hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Plusnet did not cease the broadband. It was automatically ceased by Openreach as a result of BT Retail doing a cease and reprovide of the PSTN (phone) line with no mention of broadband. BT Retail caused all this, as I suggested earlier.

PlusNet found a way out of the mess by treating it as though they had ordered a House Move because that allowed them to absorb the cease charge raised by Openreach on them and without a 12-month term following that they could not swallow the charge.

The heart of all such problems is that when a broadband cease occurs Openreach charge the ISP whose tag is on the line, not the CP causing/ordering the cease. There is no reason on earth why any ISP, (this has been seen on these forums many times), should not pass the charge on to the user. It is up to the user to get a refund from the CP that triggered the charge.

If Openreach charged the triggering CP in all such cases, then a lot of aggro and unpleasantness for the user and ISP, and unwarranted ignominy being heaped upon the latter, would be avoided.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Plusnet did not cease the broadband. It was automatically ceased by Openreach as a result of BT Retail doing a cease and reprovide of the PSTN (phone) line with no mention of broadband. BT Retail caused all this, as I suggested earlier.

Thanks for that important correction Bob

In reply to a post by FurballB:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by FurballB:

Also if the line was already ceased why would they charge me for another cease,
It a confusing issue prob only something the Plusnet rep can answer.

Ah .

There is a difference between the number on a line being changed, which you expected, and the "cease" of phone service on the line immediately followed by a new provision of a telephone service on the line.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that Rob! .... So the Lady from Plusnet mislead me into thinking Plusnet was still sort of connected. so her asking me for a cease charge of £25 to my connection was a complete lie.
so was the deception into agreeing for another 12 month contract was the only way out without penalties.

Which in theory I could of just left Plusnet broadband a freely to join any other provider if i wish to make that choice,
if i knew?

Please tell me if i'm wrong though coz i don't want a battering over it. lol

Oh dear. I'm afraid you have it wrong, partly probably because of two basic misunderstandings.

The first one is that nearly everybody and most ISPs refer to being "out of contract", when the end of the 12 or 18 months or whatever time it is, is reached. That isn't the case.

Such a contract is really a contract plus a declaration of a minimum term. At the end of the minimum term we are still in contract, usually a monthly one which can have a shorter period of notice. (PlusNet currently 10 days, about to become 14 days). You have always been in contract with Plusnet, just it was a monthly one.

The second and more important thing is, as I just said in a more general post, that I'm fairly sure that Plusnet did not cease your broadband because of the number change. Openreach automatically ceased it because BT ceased the phone line and ordered new one, rather than just changing the number as you expected. Plusnet weren't faced with a number change, they were faced with a broadband cease by Openreach, caused by BT Retail.

Plusnet get charged for the cease, (that's crazy, as I say in the other post), and realistically all they can do is charge the customer as the customer indirectly caused it. You were offered, in fact talked into, avoiding that charge by taking a new 12-month minimum term. "Forced" isn't really the word, but I agree your own circumstances effectively made it so.

Having said all that, your best hope is whatever you can negotiate with whichever PN rep you sent the PM to. Have they read it yet?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Plusnet did not cease the broadband. It was automatically ceased by Openreach as a result of BT Retail doing a cease and reprovide of the PSTN (phone) line with no mention of broadband. BT Retail caused all this, as I suggested earlier.

Yes, this is what happened.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

PlusNet found a way out of the mess by treating it as though they had ordered a House Move because that allowed them to absorb the cease charge raised by Openreach on them and without a 12-month term following that they could not swallow the charge.

Not quite. AFAIK we're not charged cessation fees for a PSTN cease as it's largely outside of our control. Neither did we order a house move. We simply recontracted FurballB and covered the cost of reprovision (which would mean paying early termination fees if leaving during the term of the contract).

To quote from another post though:

In reply to a post by FurballB:

They had to do a cease and a reprovide, which still leaves one question open. why was I asked for a cease charge of £25 by Plusnet if i was to leave, if i've been officially disconnected and free to join any provider I choose.....

We shouldn't have been asked to pay a cessation fee.

@FurballB, Have you managed to read the message I sent you yet? I don't seem to have received a response.

Regards,

In reply to a post by bpullen:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

PlusNet found a way out of the mess by treating it as though they had ordered a House Move because that allowed them to absorb the cease charge raised by Openreach on them and without a 12-month term following that they could not swallow the charge.

Not quite. AFAIK we're not charged cessation fees for a PSTN cease as it's largely outside of our control. Neither did we order a house move. We simply recontracted FurballB and covered the cost of reprovision (which would mean paying early termination fees if leaving during the term of the contract).

I didn't mean you charged a PSTN cease. I meant it was a broadband cease resulting from the PSTN cease causing OR to cease the broadband. Nor did I say mean ordered a full House Move (from OR), I meant you (may have) used an existing adaptation of the house move system to prevent any charge being raised.

To quote from another post though:

In reply to a post by FurballB:

They had to do a cease and a reprovide, which still leaves one question open. why was I asked for a cease charge of £25 by Plusnet if i was to leave, if i've been officially disconnected and free to join any provider I choose.....

We shouldn't have been asked to pay a cessation fee.

Something squiffy there? "We" should be "You"? And are you saying if he had just said "Bye-Bye" at that time he wouldn't have been charged a broadband cease fee? That would be very strange .

bpullen AkA Bob


@FurballB, Have you managed to read the message I sent you yet? I don't seem to have received a response.

Regards,

Yes thank you very much I have replied, sorry I didn't see it early before me requested for my Mac key on the phone. Just to let everybody know I've been made a great offer in return which I cannot refuse. I'm not going to disclose the conversation what was written in the PM unless Bob wants to finalize any information that might be relevant to this thread.

Full respect to Bob and Plusnet & the people on this forum for helping me out in this situation and I be staying with Plusnet as my broadband provider.


Oh to answer the question earlier to how long it takes for a Mac-Key from request to delivery it's about 5 hours .... I knew you all wanted to know that! lol

Edited by deleted (Thu 08-Aug-13 01:45:04)

Glad to hear that that you have come to a satisfactory conclusion and that you are staying with PN BB hosted on your BT Basic landline.

Also, well done PN & Bob for resolving this difficult and convoluted situation. You have demonstrated excellent CS.

That's good. The reps that come here usually do manage to find a solution to issues of this kind.

I hope your circumstances improve. Good luck .