They do if you contact support with a problem within 10 days of joining .

Have you found the bit that says about the 2Mbps, that you said they didn't show?

Fibre Optic Broadband

Minimum downstream throughputs are based on line rate and are provided on a "best efforts" basis. They aim to provide speeds at and above the minimum downstream levels as described in the table for 90% of the busiest 3 hour period of the day. The busiest 3 hours of the day is determined by constant measurement of the network traffic between the DSLAM (the new green street cabinets) and handover points to the Zen Internet network.

Customers taking services with Elevated Minimum Downstream Speeds have their traffic given preferential weighting at a routing point in the network. This gives a higher throughput speed during periods of heavy internet use across the shared network.

Line Rate || Product || Minimum Downstream Speed || Fault Threshold Rate (FTR)*

(Table)

* The FTR is based on the speed that the line is able to synchronise to on first provision (following a period of around 10 days in which the line is allowed to stabilise).

Zen link.

So it does, but it really should be written in big so people can readily see it

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Fibre Optic Broadband

Minimum downstream throughputs are based on line rate and are provided on a "best efforts" basis. They aim to provide speeds at and above the minimum downstream levels as described in the table for 90% of the busiest 3 hour period of the day. The busiest 3 hours of the day is determined by constant measurement of the network traffic between the DSLAM (the new green street cabinets) and handover points to the Zen Internet network.

Customers taking services with Elevated Minimum Downstream Speeds have their traffic given preferential weighting at a routing point in the network. This gives a higher throughput speed during periods of heavy internet use across the shared network.

Line Rate || Product || Minimum Downstream Speed || Fault Threshold Rate (FTR)*

(Table)

* The FTR is based on the speed that the line is able to synchronise to on first provision (following a period of around 10 days in which the line is allowed to stabilise).

Zen link.

that doesn't relate to DLM your trying to twist my words me think's i made no reference to actual throughput rates re my quote from the plusnet site

The throughput bit was just so you could locate things within the Zen page and put the relevant bit in context Tommy. Read what the *FTR line at the end says about the 10-day person of stabilisation in relation to FTTC.

It started at this post of yours, which I replied to earlier showing you were wrong about Plusnet not showing the 2Mbps upload on the no-phone product and also saying you were wrong when you said other ISPs don't have the 10 day stuff.

It was you that brought in an irrelevant Zen page about DLM, presumably thinking that showed they don't mention the ten days. I'm not twisting your words, just pointing you to the correct page.

I've just seen you edited in a Sky link following your wrong Zen link.

First, if you look back, I made it quite clear it was BT Wholesale based ISPs that have it. Sky is not BT Wholesale based for FTTC, any more than it is for ADSL2+. Second, the fact that a person working for Sky agrees with both of us doesn't have any relevance to the fact that BT Wholesale ISPs are stuck with it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Didn't it exist before the 80(78)Mbps product existed? A simple option.

Yes. The 80Mbps only became available early in 2012, after cabinets were upgraded to profile 17a in late 2011.

I know I was on 40/10 with IDNet, and when I moved to Plusnet only 40/2 was available from them.

In early 2011, my cabinet finally went live ... and I got accepted onto Plusnet's FTTC trial - which made use of the 40/10 variant.

However, BT mucked up the ordering and installation so much that, by the time my FTTC service was installed, Plusnet had actually launched their service at 40/2.

My service started off at 40/2, but because I was still officially part of the trial, they immediately upgraded it to a 40/10 product, which took a few days to go through, over the course of a weekend.

Because of that, I got to see the initial behaviour of DLM, and intervention after 48 hours to fix packet loss. Then, when the regrade went through, I got to see the DLM reset followed by the same 48 hour DLM intervention again.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Looks like the TalkTalk range. I always thought the 38 / 2 service was a stupid option from BTwholesale / Openreach.

I can see the point of a 40/2 product: It is cheaper at wholesale, so it allows for cheaper offers to be made to the public, if you want to do battle with TT for "Britain's cheapest fibre", even if most of the cost reductions need to happen in the "first 6 months" style of offer.

I can see the point of a 40/20 product: It costs more at wholesale, but it lets you target a segment of the market with a "look, our upstream is better than everyone else at this pricepoint". The only downside is that you have less of a gap between this product and the 80/20 one - so harder to get people to upgrade.

Its harder to market two "40Mbps" packages, so I can understand why they feel the need to choose one over the other.

I reckon the 40/20 product is more like the Plusnet of old, before BT took over. Something of a "technical" gain. The 40/2 product seems more like Plusnet under BT ownership, where BT Group have set a strategy that PN's job is to beat TT.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The throughput bit was just so you could locate things within the Zen page and put the relevant bit in context Tommy. Read what the *FTR line at the end says about the 10-day person of stabilisation in relation to FTTC.

It started at this post of yours, which I replied to earlier showing you were wrong about Plusnet not showing the 2Mbps upload on the no-phone product and also saying you were wrong when you said other ISPs don't have the 10 day stuff.

It was you that brought in an irrelevant Zen page about DLM, presumably thinking that showed they don't mention the ten days. I'm not twisting your words, just pointing you to the correct page.

I've just seen you edited in a Sky link following your wrong Zen link.

First, if you look back, I made it quite clear it was BT Wholesale based ISPs that have it. Sky is not BT Wholesale based for FTTC, any more than it is for ADSL2+. Second, the fact that a person working for Sky agrees with both of us doesn't have any relevance to the fact that BT Wholesale ISPs are stuck with it.

In reference to www.zen.co.uk/business/broadband/business-broadband/broadband-gloss...:

FTR (Fault Threshold Rate)
The fault threshold rate (or FTR) is 80% of the MSR. If the line rate drops below the FTR for more than 8 hours in a week period it is considered a fault and a low threshold breach fault can be raised.

Fault threashold rate FTR isn't DLM and has nothing to do with the 10day misinformation peddled as i see things, Zen clearly state on the page that i linked to that DLM of FTTC is different to ADSL dlm, and that it does not have a 10 day period,, and another point DLM on FTTC is Openreach's they have the control over it not Wholesale Openreach DLM is the same regardless of ISP or it they use BTW for back haul or their own LLU/GEA cable links,
squabble all you like

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 17-Jun-15 05:17:41)

From Sky help pages.

http://help.sky.com/articles/fluctuating-speeds-in-y...

as I see things

Utterly wrong Tommy. You see things wrongly.

First, the Zen quote I gave you is about FTTC, and the " *FTR " is the explanation of the asterisk in the quote I gave you. As I said, that's partly why I quoted the whole section, so you could see that.

Second, the whole point of the ten days on ADSLx is to set the FTR. Where it is wrongly interpreted by BT Wholesale is in using it to say speeds may improve over the ten days so speed problems cannot be raised during that period. That is an illogical and silly position by them. The FTR results from the lowest sync, so may be incorrectly set.

The FTR on FTTC is Openeach product dependent and is preset by them at the values given by Zen in that table.

Please quote where Zen say the ten day period does not apply to FTTC, as you claim. I must have missed it on any page you linked to.

Finally, your quote in your current post describes the ADSLx system, as it refers to the MSR. The MSR is in fact what the ten day period establishes on ADSLx, and the ADSLx FTR is then calculated from that as they say. There is no MSR on FTTC, so that definition cannot not apply.

Just give up please Tommy. You were wrong right at the start about Plusnet being the only ISP with the 10-day clause, and each of your attempts to justify your incorrect statement gets you more and more into the mire. Don't forget, as I've already said, in relation to FTTC we are agreed that the 10-day clause is rubbish. But it is still there at BT Wholesale and is applied by BT Wholesale ISPs. They have no option.

If you don't accept this post I shall give up arguing over something where you haven't a leg to stand on. Anything else you say will be just as wrong as everything you have said and I'm moving on.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Re the rest of your blurb, we all know that 10-day stuff is garbage. Even on ADSLx. But their suppliers are BT Wholesale, and as you know they say that. Plusnet therefore have to cover their back by stating the same.

You'll find all other BTW based ISPs do the same somewhere or other.

BT Consumer state 3 days in their published information, online and print. I told you this a long time ago too. They even tie it in to when to contact support.

HomeHub 5 for Infinity Leaflet PDF

page 6 "The first three days after set-up (in bold). After you�ve installed your Hub, it can take about three days to establish the fastest, most reliable broadband possible on your line." You get this printed guide with the Hub 5.

Webpage - What to Expect in the first few days of Broadband

"Although you should have a stable broadband connection after the first hour, tests actually go on for another 3 days to work out the final optimum speed for your phone line.... So if you've had broadband for 3 days or less, you should only contact our helpdesk if you completely lose your broadband service for more than an hour."