Errr, more than "tail" . Hence the quoted IP Profile.

I don't know whether its WBC or WBMC, I expect the latter. That's another thing kitz raised over in the PN forums - she says there are two flavours of WBMC, which I didn't know.

I always thought that ISPs had dedicated MSILs for it, as WBC-ISPs do. She seems to thing the default is Shared MSILs but with an option for Dedicated. There's a diagram on her website IIRC, showing the shared setup. (Goes hunting - Gor blimey! I don't think that's the one she linked to recently - it seemed much simpler).

Thinks.... There probably isn't really a BTW tail on FTTx, as that would be the copper from the exchange to the customer. But yes - it's AAISP via WBM(?)C.

I think he's in enraged mode today. He's been semi-incoherent on a few forums. It's really funny about his ISP - I've asked him at least half a dozen times and he keeps saying it's no secret. But not once that I'm aware of has he ever posted which ISP it is.

I'm fairly certain Zen hold and use a copy as well.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

You are aware that AAISP also implement their own secondary IP Profile?

My answer to your comment begins with a B and ends in S and even if they do they do not use it in the same way as plusnet do ,in simple terms it does not reduce max achievable throughput levels therefore any performace is set by BTW and their IP profile

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think he's in enraged mode today. He's been semi-incoherent on a few forums. It's really funny about his ISP - I've asked him at least half a dozen times and he keeps saying it's no secret. But not once that I'm aware of has he ever posted which ISP it is.

I'm fairly certain Zen hold and use a copy as well.

see no big secrect was it, and no they don't use a secondary ip profile and you you know this as on this very same forum you were one of the posters in the thread that discussed this very issue, and a ISP rep albeit related to ADSL linky but i don't see why they would wish to change that for fttc, and although zen's if you want to call it a copy of my current btw IP profile /sync rate is somewhat out of date and lower than the current btw one of 77.35( max for G.inp enabled circuits) but that isnt restricing my throughput like it did when with the illustrious plusnet pumnet or should they rebrand to minusnet ?

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 16-Aug-15 20:18:43)

Hang on, you say I am talking bs and then you say 'if they do'? Make your mind up

I suggest you talk to them because they do implement the downstream shaper also.

I think we've cleared up you're not with AAISP or Zen...I would assume you're with TT or BT.

Edited by deleted (Sun 16-Aug-15 20:29:12)

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Hang on, you say I am talking bs and then you say 'if they do'? Make your mind up

I suggest you talk to them because they do implement the downstream shaper also.

I think we've cleared up you're not with AAISP or Zen...I would assume you're with TT or BT.

more bs by you yet again , now you are insulting your own intelligence IF may be a small/short word but it sure can have some very big meanings/ implications in other words This secondary IP profile isn't something both AAISP or Zen internet or in fact any other ISP advertise , and also your accusations go against what they Zen internet and AAISP advertise /claim not to do, and that is to be the "bottleneck" ie throttle,shape prioritize or any other bs definition you want to spout here, why don't you ask adrian i would love to read his reply on his blog

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 16-Aug-15 20:39:42)

Obviously...

BT run a rate limiter for your line at the BRAS. It limits traffic to a set level (typically whole Mb/s) that is below your line sync speed and can change over time depending on your line. We track this BRAS rate and set the CQM system to show this on the graph. It can only gets recorded per hour so shows the highest it was - with a dotted line for the lowest in the hour. You can ask us to limit your line below the BRAS rate - what is shown is the rate we have on the line for you service..

We normally rate limit the line at the same level as the BRAS, i.e. we are not trying to be the bottleneck. We can limit at a lower level if you ask us to. If there is a burst of traffic on your line that would exceed the BRAS rate and mean BT drop packets at the BRAS, then we drop the packet first. By us detecting the burst exceeding the BRAS rate we can (a) show this on the graph as a red dot at the bottom and (b) we can allow small packets such as those used for VoIP to go though when large packets would be dropped (we set a different latency limit for small and large packets). This may still be dropped by the BRAS but typically this has the overall effect of VoIP working well on a full line.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Obviously...

BT run a rate limiter for your line at the BRAS. It limits traffic to a set level (typically whole Mb/s) that is below your line sync speed and can change over time depending on your line. We track this BRAS rate and set the CQM system to show this on the graph. It can only gets recorded per hour so shows the highest it was - with a dotted line for the lowest in the hour. You can ask us to limit your line below the BRAS rate - what is shown is the rate we have on the line for you service..

We normally rate limit the line at the same level as the BRAS, i.e. we are not trying to be the bottleneck. We can limit at a lower level if you ask us to. If there is a burst of traffic on your line that would exceed the BRAS rate and mean BT drop packets at the BRAS, then we drop the packet first. By us detecting the burst exceeding the BRAS rate we can (a) show this on the graph as a red dot at the bottom and (b) we can allow small packets such as those used for VoIP to go though when large packets would be dropped (we set a different latency limit for small and large packets). This may still be dropped by the BRAS but typically this has the overall effect of VoIP working well on a full line.

But that is customer choice , is it not, they AAISP are offering this as an extra to customers ? so where you have a customers who isnt interested in such features they will get full throughput in line with BT's IP profile yes/no?
As a plusnet customer it is a very different situation , they implement their secondary IP profile on all accounts ,due to the way their traffic shaping is designed to work ? there is no option available to their customer's to disable this , why not? when a small isp can offer this as a value added extra
but even if this secondary ip profile is set to a value higher than the customers BTW IP profile it still restricts their max throughput level , and the plusnet shaping did not benefit me in any way what so ever and the proven facts are it was responsible for restricting the max achievable throughput by around 2mbps 24/7 for 2 yrs, a lot of data usage saved by plusnet , That is the real reason behind their sales pitch bs

But it of no great surprise now, although back during 2013 things where slightly different, i have said before had i had a crystal ball and known that i would of enjoyed being able to sync at the full rates that VDSL2 offered i would not have chosen plusnet, I would of gone with one of the smaller ISP's every time, SKY would be a possibility but sadly they have to be MPF ukonline FTTC wow now that would rock

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 16-Aug-15 20:59:00)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Errr, more than "tail" . Hence the quoted IP Profile.

Good point! However I think TTB has a similar system, for the reasons this thread has gone on to discuss (a bit obtusely).

I don't know whether its WBC or WBMC, I expect the latter. That's another thing kitz raised over in the PN forums - she says there are two flavours of WBMC, which I didn't know.

I always thought that ISPs had dedicated MSILs for it, as WBC-ISPs do. She seems to thing the default is Shared MSILs but with an option for Dedicated. There's a diagram on her website IIRC, showing the shared setup. (Goes hunting - Gor blimey! I don't think that's the one she linked to recently - it seemed much simpler).

Yes it seems very complex, but BTw probably had no option to redesign due to the capacity requirements that the FTTx products need. However AAISP will probably tell you what they use; and its probably on their website somewhere.

Thinks.... There probably isn't really a BTW tail on FTTx, as that would be the copper from the exchange to the customer. But yes - it's AAISP via WBM(?)C.

There is a pseudo tail but it selected which VLAN your line is on when you get to the DSLAM, so the traffic is then directed at the right path at the hosting exchange once the multiple gigabit-fibre's reach their terminus.

SO you are with Zen? I had no idea. Just pointing out my belief. To someone else.

At least I could understand that bit. The rest descended into gibberish so I stopped soon after line 1.

Try again in English or shut up.