In reply to a post by ian72:

May be a connection going from LLU to standard ADSL which would result in the connection being physically moved between hardware. If Plusnet is a new ISP then they will just get a report from Openreach that the connection is not suitable and there have been other examples where they get that and don't do much more to resolve.

If they haven't changed ISP then it may be there has been some sort of repair in the network that might have affected joints in the cabling and caused the issue.

A change from talk talk LLU to plusnet a few years ago halved my speed from 1.2 - 0.6mbps but assuming that change has not happened in this case then increasing use of fibre further up the line can destroy the connection. We had an AIO cabinet installed in October and some 25 users went live, but since then the ADSL lines for those who, because of Openreach problems, have been unable to order fibre have deteriorated, and in one or two cases ceased entirely,

Billward was with the ISP madasafish then moved over to Plusnet sometime.

Posting history

Seems it is a long connection to the exchange, as you mention it could be worth a punt trying out Andrews & Arnold Ltd or at least the OP speaking to them about the line issue.

That sounds hideous.

However, I refuse to believe that some lines are so long and interference becomes that bad that they just cease working and are unable to carry any signal at all. They can still carry some signal, surely? It would have to be an extremely long and poor quality line to offer no potential for any ADSL service what so ever.

Many years ago, I stuck my brother on Zen's Home 250 ADSL package. Not because he had a long line (though it was reasonably long), but because this was a unlimited service at the time, and a fixed amount per month in terms of cost. It forced the line to sync at 288kbps down and up, so he saw about 32Kb/sec in either direction. Very stable, solid internet connection, but yeah, nowadays, unworkable for most media streaming services/dropbox'ing etc (32Kb/sec is nothing!).

If the OP's line really has lost most of the signal it once had, Zen's Home 250 IPStream service is the bottom of the barrel, and I'm sure would have worked. Assuming he could find an ISP that offers that same IPStream service today, I'm sure he would recover a somewhat stable connection again - as I said, maybe even 576/228 would still be possible.

Strangely enough, I never did quite work out how Zen provisioned their Home 250 service, because the likes of this page no longer lists it (only fixed rate IPStream services 500, 1000 and 2000). Maybe 250 was an IPStream service BT offered to ISPs for a while before 21CN took off, and with the mass migration from 20CN to 21CN, they pulled the product. Anyway, for its time, that Home 250 package was brilliant. Unlimited, no risk of being over charged, or having your connection chopped for over usage. How the landscape has changed since a decade ago!

Can modern routers cope with very low speeds and lots of noise?

In reply to a post by mixt:

That sounds hideous.

However, I refuse to believe that some lines are so long and interference becomes that bad that they just cease working and are unable to carry any signal at all. They can still carry some signal, surely? It would have to be an extremely long and poor quality line to offer no potential for any ADSL service what so ever.

Well quite - I've got some customers who only get 160k - the real minimum. It isn't pretty, it isn't fast, it is often pretty rubbish, but it's better than a dial-up, of which there's not much choice there either.

Strangely enough, I never did quite work out how Zen provisioned their Home 250 service, because the likes of this page no longer lists it (only fixed rate IPStream services 500, 1000 and 2000). Maybe 250 was an IPStream service BT offered to ISPs for a while before 21CN took off, and with the mass migration from 20CN to 21CN, they pulled the product. Anyway, for its time, that Home 250 package was brilliant. Unlimited, no risk of being over charged, or having your connection chopped for over usage. How the landscape has changed since a decade ago!

Zen used the IPStream 250 product from BT Wholesale, and was removed a long time ago (2011 ish IIRC)

We used to install Home 250 circuits quite a bit - great for out of band, dedicated smtp to help keep pressure off the limited upstream of primary circuits and suchlike.

In reply to a post by mixt:

Strangely enough, I never did quite work out how Zen provisioned their Home 250 service, because the likes of this page no longer lists it (only fixed rate IPStream services 500, 1000 and 2000). Maybe 250 was an IPStream service BT offered to ISPs for a while before 21CN took off, and with the mass migration from 20CN to 21CN, they pulled the product. Anyway, for its time, that Home 250 package was brilliant. Unlimited, no risk of being over charged, or having your connection chopped for over usage. How the landscape has changed since a decade ago!

Replying to the previous thing again, I had a look at some old paperwork...

IPStream Home 250 - available from 1st Sep 2004.
£12.25 + VAT from BTWholesale per month, which was only 90p less than the 500 product!

According to my own post, late 2008 they shuffled people onto a Home 350 product:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/3498293-regra...

If a signal is always available to give a service how come there are so many long lines that have never been able to get ADSL of any speed?

Phone service does not degrade over distance and ADSL does?

In reply to a post by gerarda:

If a signal is always available to give a service how come there are so many long lines that have never been able to get ADSL of any speed?

A signal isn't *always* available. I never said it was.

The lowest ADSL sync I've ever seen (and possibly the lowest possible, I can't remember) is 160k.

A long line that is relatively quiet is likely to do better than one that suffers from noise - underground for example tends to be better than overhead, but the latter is more common on long lines because it's most likely served by poles etc.

Thanks to everybody for your responses. I'll return home and digest them for my next visit to the library.

Just to clear up a few points (in no particular order):

Attenuation - I don't know what it was in 2005 but in 2011 it was around 45 and this year it has been around 34. This info comes from a SamKnows unit installed in 2011.

History - someone mentioned I used to be with Madasafish. In fact originally it was Totalise who then became part of the company owning Madasafish who, in turn, became part of Plusnet. I don't know the dates.

Download speed - in 2005 download speed was around 0.2 Mbps. Since 2012 it has been around 0.75 Mbps. I have 1 record of it reaching 1.0 Mbps. Speed has increased, not decreased, over time.

Alternatives - an option, with a possible grant, was made available in our area about 4 years ago using a wireless provider. I considered this at the time but decided to wait because of ongoing cost, 2 year minimum commitment and data limits. Since then I have heard serious criticism of the service from other locals some of whom have discontinued the service.

Change of supplier - I have to check when I transferred BB to Plusnet but it was more than 2 years ago so I don't think this is a factor..

Change to fibre - there is activity related to the exchange and between my home and the exchange. gerarda's comment about this possibly affecting users seems consistent with my problem. We don't have access to a fibre connection. This comment to a neighbour 1/2 a mile closer to the cabinet than I am is relevant - I am so sorry but it looks unlikely that your premises will benefit from the Superfast Cymru roll out Programme. The cabinet that serves your area has been enabled but it seems you are too far away to benefit.

AAISP - I wasn't aware of AAISP. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'll be back at the library later this week for any responses and many thanks to you all.

billward