In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Ofcom do both.

True, but in recent times Ofcom documents have reasoned that it's to keep wholesale costs down, probably because the LLU roll-out is all but finished now.

When LLU was being rolled out, then I can see that the higher Market A pricing is a way to encourage suppliers to make an investment in LLU.

However, now I see it as a discouragement for BT to make investment in Market A areas - they have the choice of a big investment for a small return due to there not being many customers, or no investment at all with a protected return that is better than in non-Market A areas.

In order to encourage investment in Market A areas Ofcom need to reduce the charge (and hence profit margin) for the existing 20CN equipment. The cost has already been amortized, so such a move would get rid of the excess profit for doing nothing.

In reply to a post by professor973:

There are exceptions Bob. TT and Sky have unbundled my exchange a few years back and still Market A. https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAGLE

But as has also been set Ofcom don't very often review the status of exchanges so even though LLU has since arrived they haven't updated their lists to show they are no longer Market A. And as it is regulated Ofcom are the only ones that have the power to do this.

Thank you form pointing that out. They told me they would use Vodafone for backhaul. I had a bad experience with the Post Office and their useless, Talk Talk backhaul

Origin use Plusnet as their back haul. I have 2 lines. One with Plusnet and one with Origin - both go through plusnet gateways.

In reply to a post by sheephouse:

In order to encourage investment in Market A areas Ofcom need to reduce the charge (and hence profit margin) for the existing 20CN equipment.

I'm sure Ofcom want the wholesale price at Market A to be as low as possible, but further price control reductions could lead to court action if BT deem it "unfair". BT took Ofcom to court for Ofcom's FTTC price controls for instance, but BT lost that one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/20/bt-lo...

The court action you mention related to FTTC and pay-TV. I can understand that - BT have invested money in new FTTC equipment so that they can gain customers for pay-TV to compete with Sky, and they want a return on that investment.

In 20CN Market A areas BT haven't invested anything for a decade or so - Sky and Netflix etc can't compete with BT for online TV as the broadband speed is too low for those services (I'm with Plusnet, and they won't supply TV to anyone with less than 15Mbps download - which means no 20CN customer can have it). So the result is BT keep a very comfortable margin with little risk of competition eroding their customer base as the only option for broadband is BT wholesale. There are in fact fewer and fewer ISPs that will provision 20CN connections now - I can't even get a phone line from TalkTalk, and even premium ISPs such as AAISP no longer provision 20CN. And the effect of Ofcom's price restrictions means that I pay much more for an ADSL Max connection than I would for a FTTC if it were available.

Certainly Ofcom is mindful of this:

In reference to www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/57810/WBA-Final-statem...:

BT�s services in Market A will be subject to a charge control in order to ensure that
BT does not set excessive prices for wholesale broadband services which would
ultimately be passed on to consumers. We are imposing a CPI-X charge control and
the value of X will be 10.7%.

But I also think it's a case of Ofcom having to pick their battles with BT.

Thanks. There pricing is very attractive, I could consider becoming a customer when my existing Plusnet introductory offer contract expires.

In reply to a post by professor973:

There are exceptions Bob. TT and Sky have unbundled my exchange a few years back and still Market A. https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAGLE

Same HERE in Marden / NDMAR !
But we have only TT LLU.

While I understand the reasons, the fact remains that me and the other ~1500 users on our exchange have been paying MORE for past 13 years !!!
Seems that even if SKY LLU would come, it won't help !
There appears to be NO chance we will ever lose the Markett 1 CURSE !
And it's not like we are in the back of beyond, just 7 miles south of Kent's 'capital' - Maidstone.
Regards
Martin