SkyFire, had you considered that maybe "the demand isn't there" simply because potential customers that *need* v6 now are just skipping over Zen and using an ISP who can already provide it?

Extremely good point.

I have to say, it is my opinion that Zen are being very blas� and unforthcoming regarding the issue. near-term is also clearly a non-committal get-out clause, and I have to personally interpret this is as a simple "no, we have no plans for IPv6, and it's not a top priority for us".

Basically, on every forum post I've seen regarding Zen and IPv6, spanning the last decade, Zen are unable to give a concrete straight answer on the subject. It is always of a non-committal / side-stepping tone, much as like what Phil has given.

They way I see it is, as an ISP, you either:

1) Already support it and can provision it to customers (Andrews and Arnold are already there with this).

2) You freely disclose that you are in the process of provisioning it across your network, and have some ETA on when that's going to be complete, and are able to tentatively introduce that to interested customers for testing (PlusNet are at this point).

3) You haven't bothered and have no immediate interest in providing it as part of your service.

Phil's response clearly fits in with 3 above. If they were in the process of doing anything, 2 would be more suited and there would be some kind of ETA (even if that's a 2-3 year ETA).

I suggest Zen begin to try and do some market research here for every customer they see migrating away, in an attempt to identify why that customer left, making "lack of IPv6" an option. That's going to tell them if there is indeed a demand for IPv6. For as sthen has said, not being able to provide the service provides no way of testing if there is a demand for it, as potential new customers simply won't bother with Zen and choose alternative providers who can provision IPv6 off the bat (and Zen will be none the wiser of this decision by that potential customer).

I suppose, ultimately, this is about "confidence". Personally, I have no confidence what so ever that Zen are going to introduce IPv6 or indeed have any intention to do so, in the "near-term" (what ever that means). But that's fine, I accept it, and deal with it appropriately (via a tunnel). But they should be aware that the market is always changing, and customer requirements doubly so, so if they don't keep an eye on things, they'll be playing catch-up in a competitive market before they even realise they've slipped behind everyone else.

Edited by deleted (Tue 10-Jun-14 12:10:43)

Hi,

We do capture information on why people leave. IPv6 doesn't figure prominently in that. Overall market adoption is a factor in demand (and also need) - not just demand from existing customers. These discussions also play their part too, of course.

Near-term (or short-term) I'd describe as three to six months. That doesn't mean in six months we'll definitely release something for Broadband users, by the way, but that it isn't currently something we're actively working to implement on Broadband in that timescale. To re-iterate, we review the situation regularly, to make sure we'll have something at an appropriate time based on the circumstances. We are in technology - the nature of the business is change! We know what needs to be done, it's just a case of choosing the right time - in the context of everything else we're doing (e.g. our biggest infrastructure investments in Zen's lifetime were made in the past year) - to do it. As has been mentioned in previous threads on this topic (I think - could be they were on our own forums), we are already peering via IPv6; it's not a case of having done nothing. It's just what has been done isn't yet visible to Broadband users.

regards,
Phil.

To be honest, consumer CPE still lag some way, both in support for working ipv6 and the firewall configuration side of things that becomes more important.

Thank you Phil for providing a "straight down the line" answer as to what is really going on within Zen in terms of IPv6 deployment. I feel I had to push you in that regard to get some kind of discrete answer, and I'm glad I did. I also feel you may have slightly slipped from category 3 in my previous post to 2 (although not fully), which is only a good thing.

As you have said, this is of no direct benefit to end users (yet), but at least it brings some enlightenment to others who are wondering of Zen's IPv6 plans longer term, and how your current advancements fit into making IPv6 available to customers. As a current (and previous) customer, it would be nice to see native IPv6 available from Zen in the next 1-2 years, but I appreciate as a business you may have more pressing immediate priorities to address to make this possible.

Edited by deleted (Tue 10-Jun-14 14:16:58)

demand is always going to register low if you relying on questionaires sent out to leaving customers or perhaps what potentional new customers ask sales for, one such reason will be that the majority of people wont even know what ipv6 is.

you seem to have a lot of confidence tho that when this "demand" appears you will be able to deploy ipv6 quick enough to not be behind.

Me personally given the size of zen as an isp, I would give the bad rep you getting from this thread and others as justification alone to get on with some testing, I do wonder if plusnet staff read this section and jumped in to get some good free brownie points as its amusing they started their trial whilst this discussion was ongoing. The cost of testing ipv6 I would have thought would be very small so something with little to no cost shouldnt need demand for a business decision but maybe your network equipment is very old and expensive to replace who knows.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 10-Jun-14 14:45:36)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

demand is always going to register low if you relying on questionaires sent out to leaving customers or perhaps what potentional new customers ask sales for, one such reason will be that the majority of people wont even know what ipv6 is.

Analysing data like that on a pure numbers scale would be foolish, I agree. Proportion (where volume exists so the data is statistically significant) and trends (in our data/the wider market) are far more relevant than the simple number of responses or queries.

In the case of those who don't know what IPv6 is - yes, that wouldn't register as demand; they just want their service to work and to be able to access the Internet. That's where need overtakes demand and where asking customers what they want isn't appropriate - we're best-placed to know what will continue to deliver the core of what those customers who don't care how the underlying service works need.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

you seem to have a lot of confidence tho that when this "demand" appears you will be able to deploy ipv6 quick enough to not be behind.

As I've said, demand is a near/short-term consideration. Growth and need are the bigger factor over time; i.e. being prepared before it's a problem. I don't believe there are any worries in that regard.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Me personally given the size of zen as an isp, I would give the bad rep you getting from this thread and others as justification alone to get on with some testing, I do wonder if plusnet staff read this section and jumped in to get some good free brownie points as its amusing they started their trial whilst this discussion was ongoing. The cost of testing ipv6 I would have thought would be very small so something with little to no cost shouldnt need demand for a business decision but maybe your network equipment is very old and expensive to replace who knows.

I'm not convinced this thread represents us getting a "bad rep". The subject is a little misleading, of course, but I think the overall discussion has been frank and useful and hopefully in the eyes of some readers it's clear we're not ignoring the issue; but nor are we rushing in.

As far as cost; it's all relative. IPv6 does not exist in isolation. If the time and effort are going to have greater impact, sooner, elsewhere (without impacting long-term needs) then that "elsewhere" will and does get priority. e.g. if we ran a trial it wouldn't be simply deploy to customers and job done; it then takes an ongoing resource costs to ensure it keeps working and we get the most out of that testing (if a fault occurs on a trial people tend to revert to none-trial services or workarounds, so minimising the useful data a trial delivers).

regards,
Phil.

In reply to a post by mixt:

Thank you Phil for providing a "straight down the line" answer as to what is really going on within Zen in terms of IPv6 deployment. I feel I had to push you in that regard to get some kind of discrete answer, and I'm glad I did. I also feel you may have slightly slipped from category 3 in my previous post to 2 (although not fully), which is only a good thing.

As you have said, this is of no direct benefit to end users (yet), but at least it brings some enlightenment to others who are wondering of Zen's IPv6 plans longer term, and how your current advancements fit into making IPv6 available to customers. As a current (and previous) customer, it would be nice to see native IPv6 available from Zen in the next 1-2 years, but I appreciate as a business you may have more pressing immediate priorities to address to make this possible.

You're welcome. It's a difficult one to talk about in isolation of what else we're working on, and the lack of an absolute ETA does complicate discussions, but I'm glad that hopefully the situation and reasons are clearer now.

ta,
Phil.

I'm with Zen happy with them and uses HE net for ipv6 tunnel some time some websites that uses IPv6 thinks I'm from US. and block the account if I try to log in on their ipv6 website. which is annoying.

statistic can be wrong even google will think we are from US (I could be wrong though)

I give time till October 2014 if nothing happens on Zen front I have to look else where, I really like AAISP but very expensive and complicated unit pricing for home use. aquiss probably my next bet.

I really like AAISP but very expensive and complicated unit pricing for home use. aquiss probably my next bet.

I went with A&A late last year and have been very happy with them - there isn't actually any unit pricing for the Home::1 tariff, just 100 Gb anytime chunks.

My office line was with Be, so I'm actually in the market for a new ISP there (the MAC arrived yesterday in fact, and we were enabled for FTTC two weeks ago). A&A are too expensive (no Home::1 for business), so Zen looked very appealing; I'd talked to someone there about switching from Be, and it sounded promising until I asked about IPv6 - and didn't even get a reply!

I'll probably go with IDNet for the FTTC+PSTN: IPv6 and 100 Gb should do. I'd prefer "unlimited" for easier budgeting, but not at the expense of losing IPv6.