Post deleted by David_W

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Ok try ping -t 62.3.86.42

This is I think your Zen gateway and if the packet loss is showing up there then it may be a DSL issue, or backhaul issue.

Zen allocate gateways dynamically. If 62.3.86.42 (ge2-2-124.subs.dsl6.wh-man.zen.net.uk) is the last hop but one on a current traceroute into Helan's WAN IP address, I believe the gateway address from the user's perspective is 62.3.83.21 (losubs.subs.dsl6.wh-man.zen.net.uk), though that is something of an educated guess.

The easiest way to establish the current gateway IP address from a Zen connection is to traceroute to an address anywhere on the Internet - the gateway will be the IP address of the first step. (I acknowledge and ignore the existence of hops that are hidden from the user by tunneling protocols such as L2TP - there is nothing the user can do with any knowledge they have about these hops in any event). Other options for discovering the current gateway IP address from the Zen subscriber's perspective are scrutinising the router's routing table or PPP logs.

It should make little difference whatever you ping on Zen's core network, though measuring the latency of the first IP hop is the best when attempting to diagnose DSL or backhaul issues.


A Zen user can find out whether they are using Zen or BT Wholesale backhaul from the customer portal. Go to "My Services" and choose "View Line Data", then look for the line that begins "Your current line technology is". Anything mentioning "IP Stream" or "WBMC" is BT Wholesale backhaul. Anything mentioning "LLU" or "GEA" is Zen backhaul.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

In which case is a sign of exchange or backhaul congestion.

If was a dsl issue would expect the packet loss to be pretty constant.

If the exchange is just a bt wholesale one rather than one with zen backhaul them congestion is something that people hace been seeing on various providers and gets fixed after a few weeks

I dont quite get what you're saying Andrew sorry. Are you saying it's a BT problem/too many ppl on the exchange/congestion at the exchange? If that's the case does it mean I'm stuck like this?

It is so intermiettent literally one minute I can be watching a video on youtube, the next minute it's buffering and then loses the server completely same with reading webpages etc

In reply to a post by flippery:

For IP.
Just switch off all machines including router.
Restart router and leave few minutes.
switch on machine one at a time and confirm internet connection, before switching on next

Or for one machine only
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~help/networking/IP_renew.html

Thank you, I managed to give all devices their own IP's yday

In reply to a post by David_W:

Zen allocate gateways dynamically. If 62.3.86.42 (ge2-2-124.subs.dsl6.wh-man.zen.net.uk) is the last hop but one on a current traceroute into Helan's WAN IP address, I believe the gateway address from the user's perspective is 62.3.83.21 (losubs.subs.dsl6.wh-man.zen.net.uk), though that is something of an educated guess.

The easiest way to establish the current gateway IP address from a Zen connection is to traceroute to an address anywhere on the Internet - the gateway will be the IP address of the first step. (I acknowledge and ignore the existence of hops that are hidden from the user by tunneling protocols such as L2TP - there is nothing the user can do with any knowledge they have about these hops in any event). Other options for discovering the current gateway IP address from the Zen subscriber's perspective are scrutinising the router's routing table or PPP logs.

It should make little difference whatever you ping on Zen's core network, though measuring the latency of the first IP hop is the best when attempting to diagnose DSL or backhaul issues.


A Zen user can find out whether they are using Zen or BT Wholesale backhaul from the customer portal. Go to "My Services" and choose "View Line Data", then look for the line that begins "Your current line technology is". Anything mentioning "IP Stream" or "WBMC" is BT Wholesale backhaul. Anything mentioning "LLU" or "GEA" is Zen backhaul.

Thank you, I found it "Your current line technology is IP Stream Max ADSL."

Not sure what that means though

a trace to zen gives me

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Helan>tracert www.zen.co.uk

Tracing route to zen.co.uk [212.23.0.100]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 4 ms 3 ms 3 ms 192.168.0.1
2 55 ms 56 ms 55 ms losubs.subs.dsl6.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.83.21]

3 59 ms 55 ms 55 ms no-dns-yet-62-3-86-45.zen.co.uk [62.3.86.45]
4 55 ms 55 ms 55 ms ge-2-0-0-0.cr1.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.49]
5 58 ms 57 ms 55 ms ae0-0.dr1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.90]
6 57 ms 59 ms 57 ms ge-1-2-105.access.ar1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.8
1.150]
7 56 ms 57 ms 59 ms ge-0-0-15-100.fwhosting1a.sp-roch.corp.zen.net.u
k [88.98.128.202]
8 57 ms 61 ms 57 ms core-212-23-0-100.zen.net.uk [212.23.0.100]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Helan>

p.s. before I even had a chance to post this and my exchange details I lost connection to the server (timed out)

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Helan>tracert www.zen.co.uk
Unable to resolve target system name www.zen.co.uk.

Rebooted router

C:\Users\Helan>tracert www.zen.co.uk

Tracing route to zen.co.uk [212.23.0.100]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 192.168.0.1
2 80 ms 55 ms 57 ms losubs.subs.dsl1.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.87.145]

3 84 ms 56 ms 56 ms ge-2-1-0-160.cr1.wh-man.zen.co.uk [62.3.87.161]

4 57 ms 56 ms 59 ms ae0-0.dr1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.90]
5 59 ms 59 ms 59 ms ge-1-1-104.access.ar1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.8
1.146]
6 57 ms 56 ms 56 ms ge-0-0-15-100.fwhosting1a.sp-roch.corp.zen.net.u
k [88.98.128.202]
7 59 ms 61 ms 57 ms core-212-23-0-100.zen.net.uk [212.23.0.100]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Helan>

My exchange is Flax Bourton http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php

This really really frustrating the internet is becoming unusable at the moment

"IP Stream Max ADSL" means BT Wholesale ADSL over their older 20CN network. MrSaffron is in a better position than I am to know about the current extent of link saturation problems on this older system.

SamKnows, which isn't always that up to date, suggests that there's no BT Wholesale 21CN WBC at your exchange - if there was, Zen would have moved you to that system. The only LLU operator appears to be TalkTalk, though I would suggest doing all you can with Zen before giving up and moving to TalkTalk or a TalkTalk reseller. TalkTalk's retail service has a decidedly mixed reputation, though a TalkTalk Business reseller might be a good option if BT Wholesale proves unworkable.

If this is a problem with the BT Wholesale network affecting your exchange, hopefully there will be a solution to that problem in due course.


So far as the traceroutes to an Internet location go, your current Zen gateway will be the second hop - the first is your local router. If you want to monitor the connection between you and Zen, the best you can do is to ping -t that second hop IP address.


By way of comparison, this is what I get on my Zen connection (80/20 FTTC on Zen backhaul - the line technology is "GEA FTTC"):

C:\Users\David>ping -t 62.3.87.147

Pinging 62.3.87.147 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254

Ping statistics for 62.3.87.147:
Packets: Sent = 38, Received = 38, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 18ms, Average = 14ms
Control-C
^C

You can see that the "time" figure doesn't jump around all over the place, suggesting a link that is working well and not suffering from excessive congestion.

If you haven't done so already, why not set up a thinkbroadband Bandwidth Quality Monitor and consider posting the link to the results in this thread. This system gives a graphical illustration of the performance of your connection by pinging it every second. You can see the results of monitoring my Zen connection using the link in my signature.

In reply to a post by David_W:

"IP Stream Max ADSL" means BT Wholesale ADSL over their older 20CN network. MrSaffron is in a better position than I am to know about the current extent of link saturation problems on this older system.

SamKnows, which isn't always that up to date, suggests that there's no BT Wholesale 21CN WBC at your exchange - if there was, Zen would have moved you to that system. The only LLU operator appears to be TalkTalk, though I would suggest doing all you can with Zen before giving up and moving to TalkTalk or a TalkTalk reseller. TalkTalk's retail service has a decidedly mixed reputation, though a TalkTalk Business reseller might be a good option if BT Wholesale proves unworkable.

If this is a problem with the BT Wholesale network affecting your exchange, hopefully there will be a solution to that problem in due course.

I get the impression from Zen that the problem is me/my house/electrical problem inside but they are now monitoring my router (doing a direct ping test) for 24 hours to see if they can see what I see this end

So far as the traceroutes to an Internet location go, your current Zen gateway will be the second hop - the first is your local router. If you want to monitor the connection between you and Zen, the best you can do is to ping -t that second hop IP address.

Thank you, I will do

By way of comparison, this is what I get on my Zen connection (80/20 FTTC on Zen backhaul - the line technology is "GEA FTTC"):

C:\Users\David>ping -t 62.3.87.147

Pinging 62.3.87.147 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 62.3.87.147: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=254

Ping statistics for 62.3.87.147:
Packets: Sent = 38, Received = 38, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 18ms, Average = 14ms
Control-C
^C
You can see that the "time" figure doesn't jump around all over the place, suggesting a link that is working well and not suffering from excessive congestion.

That reminds me of my days in London! Oh how I miss being so close to the exchange and having such great speeds/stable connection

I just set up a 2 min monitoring on my 2nd hop and got

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Helan>ping -t 62.3.87.145

Pinging 62.3.87.145 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=181ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=139ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=141ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=111ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=143ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=77ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=252
Reply from 62.3.87.145: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=252

Ping statistics for 62.3.87.145:
Packets: Sent = 181, Received = 181, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 56ms, Maximum = 181ms, Average = 61ms
Control-C
^C
C:\Users\Helan>

Seems to jump enormously between 56ms and 181ms

If you haven't done so already, why not set up a thinkbroadband Bandwidth Quality Monitor and consider posting the link to the results in this thread. This system gives a graphical illustration of the performance of your connection by pinging it every second. You can see the results of monitoring my Zen connection using the link in my signature.

I hadn't set one up previously but I just have, hope the link works
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/6fa8d948171...

Last series is much better

Ipstream max is the old system and can see more congestion.

If the router stats are holding reasonable figures then yes congestion can be like this, ie hit and miss

Generally line problems see the modem resyncing that means no connection at all for 30 seconds or more and obvious indication in router logs.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Last series is much better

Ipstream max is the old system and can see more congestion.

Not really what I wanted to hear but guessed as much thanks Andrew