Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time) :: Zen Internet

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zebb_edi
(regular) Thu 25-Jul-24 14:29:21

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: agent_r00t] [link to this post]

Zen's attitude towards their gateway routing has always been a disgrace. As others have said it's gone on a long time, but they never do anything about it. It did seem reasonably stable for me for a while now, but something has changed over the last few weeks imho.

It is very noticeable. I use mine alot for gaming and also write regulatory reporting financial software, and I notice it alot for that too because i work from home.

Don't get me wrong, i'm fine if it fluctuates a little, i'm not expecting the sort of SLA's that our financial customers pay through the nose for, but to more than double the latency based on their gateways is definitely not providing a decent service.

The hypocrisy of their gaming page stating "ping is king" and "we always provide the best connection" is just outright a pack of lies and false advertising. You can't actively advertise that to attract gamers and then allow your support staff to tell anyone who reports it to go away because a ping of 25ms one minute and 10ms the next is perfectly acceptable.

Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 25-Jul-24 14:37:33

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: JHampson] [link to this post]

I was going to post the usual Zen run their network for cost efficiency meaning if Manchester is under utilised, they wouldnt bump up London capacity and instead reroute traffic via Manchester to get more utilisation out of their investment.

However I noticed you mentioned Zen sales mentioned latency and then found this page.

https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/gaming-broadband/

I cant remember if the ASA consider companies own website's to be part of what they look at but I would think at the very least that they have "We’ve invested in our network to ensure consistently low latency" on their web page would allow you a penalty free exit.

Looks like the sales team are on a different wavelength to whoever is making the decision on gateway session steering.

I think its unlikely Zen will change their policy and investment decisions, so if it bothers you, use the above to get a penalty free exit and go to an ISP that only has London gateways.

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 25-Jul-24 14:41:06)

ukwiz
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 26-Jul-24 09:45:06

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: zebb_edi] [link to this post]

I reported problems with ping doubling depending which gateway I was on in 2021. This is the reply I got:

Zen servers work to ensure that latency is spread as evenly as possible between our customers. Rather than have one customer with high latency and 10 with tiny latency we want our servers to ensure that no individual has significantly more or less latency than anyone on the server as nobodie's traffic should be prioritized.

Multiple online sources state latencies of less than 50Ms as good. A latency of 20Ms is universally considered excellent or even unrealistic to aim for. Your latency could have increased due to a number of factors, but the most likely one is that usage in your area increased so to ensure everybody had a good browsing experience everyone's latency increased slightly to allow for the greater throughput needs without impacting service.

If internet traffic increases in your area further your latency is likely to increase along side that in order to ensure everyone has the best browsing experience. We cannot save particularly good latencies for individual customers as it would give all our other users a worse experience. If your latency regularly reaches 200-500Ms unloaded then there may be a loading issue on your line that could need investigation and addressing, but with it still being at above excellent rates we are unable to take further action.

David

BT (poor) -> Zen (excellent) -> O2 (started well, went downhill -> IDNet (No complaints - but 100GB cap) -> Zen (gone a long way downhill) -> A & A

Ad_G
(regular) Fri 26-Jul-24 15:54:14

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: JHampson] [link to this post]

In reply to a post by JHampson:
I am stuck now unable to know how to escalate this.
I wondered if the routing was a mistake of City Fibre provisioning? but Zen say the latency is fine which is ridiculous IMHO and their latency advertising a lie.
I also had spoken to their sales team prior to ordering and was assured that I would get routed by geography and thus london instead of Manchester given my proximity.

I would have expected that latency and geography would have some bearing on routing but Zen say this is by design and down to load.

Any ideas please? I am not sure technically why this is happening so anyone that can help explain I would appreciate.

cheers

As mentioned before Zen only take Local services from CityFibre, that means your service is handed over to Zen from the CityFibre exchange which serves your house.

Zen take the traffic from their local location into their network within the town/city you are in so any routing issue is down to how Zen have chosen to direct your traffic. From what I recall of Zen all the BNGs are in the same group for PPPoE so which BNG you get is down to which responds first, why that appears to always be a BNG in Manchester for people in the south is the question.

All you can do is keep pushing Zen to sort their network out and route you sensibly.

timo_w2s
(newbie) Fri 26-Jul-24 21:49:59

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: billford] [link to this post]

In reply to a post by billford:
I'm in South Oxfordshire with IDNet (FTTC with Zen backhaul); when I checked this morning my BQM was very similar to yours... I don't know how backhaul routing works, but around 1pm (and more in hope than expectation) I rebooted the router and now everything is back where it should be:

My Broadband Ping

I didn't manually reboot my router or ONT as I'm not at home at the moment and didn't want to risk doing it remotely but a couple of days ago I got briefly disconnected at about 6am and was put back on London so everything is working better again for now. I guess we should be grateful that we can switch to London occasionally unlike those in Bracknell!

repripper
(newbie) Mon 28-Oct-24 22:09:27

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: JHampson] [link to this post]

In reply to a post by JHampson:
When I spoke to the complaints team I had said please fix or I will look to change providers as the Latency is twice that of my former Broadband on BT which was copper cables. They have told me as soon as my service was activated my 14 day cooling off period was null and void and I would have to pay the full contract to exit.

I am stuck now unable to know how to escalate this..

Hmm is this normal tactics across the industry or just Zen, as I think I'm in a similar boat whereby I made my order and magically the go-live date was exactly 14 days after sign-up date?

agent_r00t
(learned) Tue 25-Feb-25 10:36:48

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: agent_r00t] [link to this post]

Reviving this. For 10 short minutes last night I was mysteriously routed via London.

Zen Cityfibre BQM 24/02/2025

So it is possible. Not really sure why it went back again though. I want to note that the ping increased while I was still connected to one of the London BNGs. So the routing is definitely happening somewhere else, either on the cityfibre side, or Zen outside the visible IP network.

jpm
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 25-Feb-25 11:01:51

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: repripper] [link to this post]

In reply to a post by repripper:
In reply to a post by JHampson:
When I spoke to the complaints team I had said please fix or I will look to change providers as the Latency is twice that of my former Broadband on BT which was copper cables. They have told me as soon as my service was activated my 14 day cooling off period was null and void and I would have to pay the full contract to exit.

I am stuck now unable to know how to escalate this..

Hmm is this normal tactics across the industry or just Zen, as I think I'm in a similar boat whereby I made my order and magically the go-live date was exactly 14 days after sign-up date?

I know this is an old post but the 14-day cooling-off period on contracts was never intended to create a try-and-buy service. Some ISPs do start the 14-day period from the date of activation and bill you pro-rata for the days you use, but these tend to be the massive ones that can afford to absorb activation/installation charges.

The point of the 14-day period is that you have time to review the offer that you signed up to, and to look around at other providers, to review terms and conditions etc. rather than saying "yes" to something on the phone and then being locked in for 24 months.

DFScale
(committed) Tue 25-Feb-25 11:06:45

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: JHampson] [link to this post]

In reply to a post by JHampson:
They have told me as soon as my service was activated my 14 day cooling off period was null and void and I would have to pay the full contract to exit.

If activation is within the 14 days the cooling period should stand until and unless the customer agrees a waiver. AIUI

MK65
(newbie) Tue 25-Feb-25 12:24:58

Re: Routing via Manchester (but a bit different this time)

[re: DFScale] [link to this post]

How can I tell if I am connecting via London or Manchester?

I am in Milton Keynes, on Zen via CityFibre and our PCs all run Linux.

Also, does anyone know where, (which town), CityFibre's exchange for the Milton Keynes area is please?

.

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