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Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Thu 27-Jan-11 14:00:30
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Low SNR


[link to this post]
 
Folks I have a very low SNR currently. See following

Noise margin (Down/Up) 3.4 dB / 9.1 dB

My broadband tends to reset itself about every other day. Does anybody know any solution to fixing this?

My service provider is BT Retail and they are using the BT Wholesale 21CN WBC offering to deliver my "Up to 20 Mb" service.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 27-Jan-11 16:02:02
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
What aree you full stats - up and down.

Also, can you run RouterStatsLite http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm#routerst...

Set it for 1 sample per minute and 1500 samples. That will give a full day graph. Host the image and provide a link. It will show how your SNR varies during the day and when it is resetting itself. For example, it it resets in the early afternoon at 6dB margin that will slowly decrease until it gets too low for the modem to hold sync. Or there could be a major external noise event causing a loss of sync.





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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Thu 27-Jan-11 16:54:54
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Re: Low SNR


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
What aree you full stats - up and down.

Also, can you run RouterStatsLite http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm#routerst...

Set it for 1 sample per minute and 1500 samples. That will give a full day graph. Host the image and provide a link. It will show how your SNR varies during the day and when it is resetting itself. For example, it it resets in the early afternoon at 6dB margin that will slowly decrease until it gets too low for the modem to hold sync. Or there could be a major external noise event causing a loss of sync.


Looks a good way of collecting stats but it doesn't seem to have the BT Retail Home Hub version 2 in the list. Any ideas on how I can use it to collect stats from a HH2?

Thnaks in advance

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta

Edited by infinidim (Thu 27-Jan-11 16:55:27)


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Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Thu 27-Jan-11 17:00:27
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
Here are the full stats from the HH2 -

Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 17:43:12
Downstream 16,663 Kbps
Upstream 828 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.5
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 3.5 dB / 9.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 26.0 dB / 13.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 21.1 dBm / 12.4 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 31167375 / 8
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 140 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 3422
Error Seconds (Local) 1541

We are only about 1600 meters from the Fareham exchange with as far as I can find out all underground cabling.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 27-Jan-11 22:54:35
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
I don't know who builds teh HH v2 but it could be Thomson or Sagem so you could try a couple of those.

However, as you know which page to use to get the stats you can use a User Defined Modem. There are instructions on the website about how to do it - it is fairly simple once you have identified where the stats are in the user interface.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Fri 28-Jan-11 14:22:29
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Re: Low SNR


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
I don't know who builds teh HH v2 but it could be Thomson or Sagem so you could try a couple of those.

However, as you know which page to use to get the stats you can use a User Defined Modem. There are instructions on the website about how to do it - it is fairly simple once you have identified where the stats are in the user interface.


I have tried using both the Thomson or Sagem as well as the User Defined modem but none of them work because the HH 2 has multi level entry for getting the stats. You can't login and go straight to the stats page. It's a real pity as the software you recommended look really good.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User MHC
(legend) Fri 28-Jan-11 14:27:35
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
A pity.

The results from a BT business hub: Graph you can see how the downstream SNR varies over 24 hours.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

Edited by MHC (Fri 28-Jan-11 14:46:39)

Standard User Jaggies
(committed) Fri 28-Jan-11 14:32:26
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Re: Low SNR


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
The results from a BT business hub:
<snip>
you can see how the downstream SNR varies over 24 hours.


"This image or video has been moved or deleted"

~~~~~
Brian
From September 2001 on BTopenworld Home 500/Home 1000/Home 2000. Then ADSLMax on <n>ildram. Moved to ADSL2+ from ADSL24. I'm now with plusnet. I'm not saying who I work for. Any opinions expressed here are my own.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Fri 28-Jan-11 14:47:21
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Re: Low SNR


[re: Jaggies] [link to this post]
 
Try again - a minor URL issue ...





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Jaggies
(committed) Fri 28-Jan-11 15:52:11
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Re: Low SNR


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Sorted...

~~~~~
Brian
From September 2001 on BTopenworld Home 500/Home 1000/Home 2000. Then ADSLMax on <n>ildram. Moved to ADSL2+ from ADSL24. I'm now with plusnet. I'm not saying who I work for. Any opinions expressed here are my own.
Standard User kial
(member) Sun 30-Jan-11 13:13:02
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
The target SNR can be as low as 3 dB on 21CN WBC and that might be too low for your setup.

Do you have a HH 2.0 model A or B?

I use the model A but previously I had the model B and it connected very close to the limits of my line so was more prone to disconnections whereas the model A is much more conservative (~1Mbps slower).

Also the model B had a bug where viewing the ADSL stats page can cause a reconnect which more than likely hasn't been fixed.

My line mostly has a 6 dB target but recently it dropped to 3 dB again and has been stable:

Line state Connected
Connection time 9 days, 22:36:43
Downstream 13,178 Kbps
Upstream 888 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.5
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 2.0 dB / 9.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 32.5 dB / 16.6 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 0.0 dBm / 12.6 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 220919385 / 4294967264
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 85758 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 4


kial
Standard User Chesterport
(newbie) Sun 30-Jan-11 13:32:20
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
This is very good software but only supports the version 1 Home Hub.
But it do's support a very long list of other router's.
I have been in contact with John & as of now there is no workround.
Mike A
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Sun 30-Jan-11 16:53:48
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Re: Low SNR


[re: kial] [link to this post]
 
Kial, thanks for the information.

I have a Type A HH 2 currently and have only had Type A HH 2's For the first time since the 6 January I have had my HH 2 stay up for longer than about 2 days. See following -

Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 3 days, 17:12:24
Downstream 16,663 Kbps
Upstream 828 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.5
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 3.1 dB / 8.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 26.0 dB / 13.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 21.1 dBm / 12.4 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 96273231 / 45
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 2479 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 3435
Error Seconds (Local) 2035

This latest connection is floating around the 3db level. I know that I am on WBC 21CN into an MSAM in the local exchange.

By the way what throughput do you get out of your line. I have a running battle with BT currently on throughput. The IP Profile on the line seems to stay at 13000 Kbps but most of the time I get around about 6 Mbs throughput. I also found that unless your throughput on "up to 20 Mb" service is less than 4 Mbs then they won't accept it as a fault.

I also have found a few bugs with BT's speed tester website " http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ " as well. IP Profile set at 13000 Kbps, speed tester shows 15321 Kbps and when BT looked at the speed tester website it only showed 8 Mbs as my speed.......I just don't trust BT anymore.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Sun 30-Jan-11 16:56:56
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Re: Low SNR


[re: Chesterport] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chesterport:
This is very good software but only supports the version 1 Home Hub.
But it do's support a very long list of other router's.
I have been in contact with John & as of now there is no workround.
Mike A


Thanks Mike for talking to John. I had a thought that might be the case. I had tried everything to try and make it work.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User kial
(member) Mon 31-Jan-11 01:04:03
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
My line reconnected earlier but still has the 3 dB target. Here is speedtester results:
Download speed achieved during the test was - 10748 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :12401 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 11000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 12.67:21.02:66.31 (SBE:NBE:PBE)

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 704 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 888 Kbps

Outside the speed capped hours I consistently see 1.1MB/s in uTorrent so I suspect throughput at my exchange is fine. I did a test just now and a 550MB torrent took just under 9 minutes to download. There was a problem not too long ago where the line appeared to be capped at 2Mbps but that only lasted a few days.

kial
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Mon 31-Jan-11 12:57:47
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Re: Low SNR


[re: kial] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Kial for the information.

Like you I do see dramatic differences in down-stream throughput. The lowest I have seen is 2700 Kbps in the middle of the day - BT still hasn't managed to explain why this happened either.

The other thing is that I think that the BT Speedtester system has a few bugs in it as well.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User geordiekris
(experienced) Wed 02-Feb-11 10:47:28
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
the speedtester belongs to bt wholesale and as such takes you outside of any isp traffic management issues or bottlenecks so you will allways get a better throughput result in most cases

my name has been changed to save me from more company disciplinary procedures.

whatever i say is my thoughts and not those of the company i work for
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Mon 07-Feb-11 13:52:45
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Re: Low SNR


[re: geordiekris] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by geordiekris:
the speed tester belongs to BT wholesale and as such takes you outside of any ISP traffic management issues or bottlenecks so you will always get a better throughput result in most cases


geordiekris, thanks for this information. As most people are aware BT Wholesale over the weekend updated and broke their speed tester site. For most of the weekend it came back for me that it was either busy or there was a technical problem.

The latest this I got back when it finally worked was as follows -

Download speed achieved during the test was - 20115 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :16352 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1020 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 14000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 33.12:13.46:53.42 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

I really don't understand a supplier that can release a product that says that with a sync rate of 16352 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM) that you can get a throughput of 20115 Kbps.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
Standard User geordiekris
(experienced) Mon 07-Feb-11 18:20:35
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Re: Low SNR


[re: infinidim] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by infinidim:
In reply to a post by geordiekris:
I really don't understand a supplier that can release a product that says that with a sync rate of 16352 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM) that you can get a throughput of 20115 Kbps.


What a strange result but as you so aptly put it above haha

on a serious issue you have a synch of just over 16 meg and a profile of 14 meg so not a bad connection really, im not sure of the difering BRAS profiles on ADSL2+ sure some one on here will know them and sure they will advise if your profile will increase on that synch.

However on a 14 meg profile i should say your connection should never be slow i know BT retail traffic manage the line putting restrictions in place for downloading p2p and torrents even newsnet but thats in peek period approx 2pm ish - midnightish
on a dailiy basis


my name has been changed to save me from more company disciplinary procedures.

whatever i say is my thoughts and not those of the company i work for

Edited by geordiekris (Mon 07-Feb-11 18:24:13)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 07-Feb-11 18:39:42
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Re: Low SNR


[re: geordiekris] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by geordiekris:
on a serious issue you have a synch of just over 16 meg and a profile of 14 meg so not a bad connection really, im not sure of the difering BRAS profiles on ADSL2+ sure some one on here will know them and sure they will advise if your profile will increase on that synch.
Link to IP Profile table.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User geordiekris
(experienced) Mon 07-Feb-11 19:28:29
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Re: Low SNR


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
see knew some one would have so based on your synch rate your profile is not due an increase

my name has been changed to save me from more company disciplinary procedures.

whatever i say is my thoughts and not those of the company i work for
Standard User infinidim
(newbie) Tue 08-Feb-11 11:48:10
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Re: Low SNR


[re: geordiekris] [link to this post]
 
In the end my link fell over as it stated to have errors and also the SNR got lower in both direction - 3.1 db (Down) and 4.5 db (Up). It then came back at a lower sync rate in a down stream direction and a higher sync rate in an upstream direction. Lets see what the DLM does with the line now.

Infinidim cool
Megadodo Publications
Ursa Minor Beta
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