BRAS Profile quick fix

Looks like BT have done a quick fix to their broken BRAS profile system by setting them to be above 80 Mbps.

what was broken?

The BRAS profile system has been reporting a Max Achievable Speed of zero for about a month, and also does not move.
However, the IP Profile is now being reported as above 80Mbps by many people.

Still cruddy on http://speedtester.bt.com

Download speedachieved during the test was - 46.83 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 12 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 52.28 Mbps

The graphic corresponds. Which tester is showing the 80Mbps+?

That one. See how the acceptable range max is 0 Mbps

Your statement:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

However, the IP Profile is now being reported as above 80Mbps by many people.

was what you were being asked about.

I still have 0mbps achievable speed and profile of 77.43mbps.

So nothing has changed for me.

See here: http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/IP-profile-no...

You miss our point .

U: Looks like BT have done a quick fix to their broken BRAS profile system by setting them to be above 80 Mbps.
Q: what was broken?

U: The BRAS profile system has been reporting a Max Achievable Speed of zero for about a month, and also does not move. However, the IP Profile is now being reported as above 80Mbps by many people.

The BRAS Profile system is still reporting a Max Achievable of zero, even in the screenshot in your latest link, and in all ours.

So what's fixed? Nothing. But something else is broken, in that the IP Profiles you show do indeed exceed the maximum possible.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 21-Dec-12 22:10:26)

It wasn't me that asked the Q; just pointed out your nonsense answer to it.

I have seen reports on another 3rd party forum of profiles higher than 80mbit, what would be interesting to know is if those people also had syncs higher than 79999 and if BT are deciding to allow throughput to be 80mbit/sec 'after' overheads like VM do, otherwise its probably an error on the systems.

I believe it's a quick fix and nothing to do with sync.

But what is it fixing? That's what you seem to know and we don't .

The broken BRAS profile system.

But you haven't said in what respect it is or was broken. It's working fine for all cases I've seen.

Yes I did, in the 2nd post above. Remember you are not on BT broadband.

Edited by deleted (Sun 23-Dec-12 00:08:49)

?
Hang on! That's drivel.

Quoting the thread in sequence:-

U: Looks like BT have done a quick fix to their broken BRAS profile system by setting them to be above 80 Mbps.
Q: what was broken?
U:
1 - The BRAS profile system has been reporting a Max Achievable Speed of zero for about a month, and also does not move.
2 - However, the IP Profile is now being reported as above 80Mbps by many people.

Me now:-

(1) is still doing that so that isn't fixed.
(2) logically follows from your opening statement that they are setting profiles to above 80Mbps.

Nowhere there or later do you say what was or is broken other than perhaps (1), which clearly isn't fixed.

Would you like to give us a couple of links to illustrations of what I seem to be failing to grasp?

Remember you are not on BT broadband.

But I am subject to the same BRAS Profile system as those who are. What has BT Retail got to do with the way the IP Profile system operates?

The IP profile is not one and the same as the BRAS profile, is it?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The IP profile is not one and the same as the BRAS profile, is it?

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

That is for ADSL, but VDSL2 operates in a similar manner, apart from IP Profile/BRAS rate being 96.79% of sync speed (subject to being updated by a new PPP session being initiated (doesn't always happen if "on the fly" resyncs are too quick to force a new session).

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The IP profile is not one and the same as the BRAS profile, is it?

You are correct there.

Which gives rise to five points:-

1) You have still not given even a glimmer of a clue as to what you were talking about when you referred to "their broken BRAS profile system", in that you haven't said which aspect of it was broken and is now fixed.

2) That quote continues with "by setting them to be above 80 Mbps". So this BRAS profile system has according to you been set to 80 Mbps. Seeing as you now correctly say IP Profile and BRAS profile are not the same thing, it is unclear to what the 80 Mbps refers if not the IP Profile constituent of the BRAS profile.

3) A reread of your OP has just made me realise that the BRAS profile is a "them". Huh?

4) In the second post above to which you directed me you say "However, the IP Profile is now being reported as above 80Mbps by many people." From what you say now that must have been a random and irrelevant statement in relation to a fix of something else.

5) You have given no evidence whatsoever of the IP Profile being set to above 80Mbps on FTTC lines, though I accept there has been a corroborative post which is also anecdotal.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Dec-12 09:12:37)

In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

That article is unclear on the subject.

It starts off saying "Your IP profile is closely related to the bRAS profile" without saying how related and then goes on using them interchangeably.

As I understand it the BRAS profile includes the sync-time noise margin and the interleaving settings. Probably a few other things as well.

Sorry this is not a fix, but just BT doing testing to see what speeds people can connect to.

This is because they are thinking of increasing the download speed, but the new advertising rules state that they must prove that at least 10% of customers can get the speed before they make any changes.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Sorry this is not a fix, but just BT doing testing to see what speeds people can connect to.

Can you post a link to some corroboration or did you just make it up?

which is what I suggested earlier.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Sorry this is not a fix, but just BT doing testing to see what speeds people can connect to.

?
But BT Retail sell a BT Wholesale product based on the Openreach 80/20 GEA product. How can anyone connect faster than 80Mbps?

If Openreach now have a faster than 80Mbps FTTC product I'm sure all ISPs would be aware of the BTW product based on it and be able to trial it if they wished.

Is there such a product?

Sorry I am not allowed to post too much information on it at this stage. Other ISP's are aware of it and may take advantage of it once BT have done the testing.

Rofl
Yeah, right

If I understand him right BT are just allowing higher profiles to be set by the system for monitoring purposes, then they use that to see % of lines syncing high enough to get a new 10% figure that allows them to advertise higher speeds. After that its possible a rollout would then occur of a new product which I suspect would replace the current 76mbit product. (which some advertise as 80mbit, like I noticed now we have isps advertising adsl2+ again as 24mbit).

There is only 2 logical reasons why we would be seeing these profiles, either its a fault or BT are considering a new higher speed product.

I think if they were planning a higher speed product they would be shouting it from the rooftops and if it was a fault they'd be keeping quiet

not until they know it would work.

and they have been quiet about it, you are the only one making an issue of it.

we are still waiting to hear what was broken with 77.43 profiles.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

If I understand him right BT are just allowing higher profiles to be set by the system for monitoring purposes, then they use that to see % of lines syncing high enough to get a new 10% figure that allows them to advertise higher speeds.

It doesn't work like that. IP Profile is a result of sync speed, not the determinant.

After that its possible a rollout would then occur of a new product which I suspect would replace the current 76mbit product. (which some advertise as 80mbit, like I noticed now we have isps advertising adsl2+ again as 24mbit).

Just ISPs who haven't twigged they shouldn't be advertising such figures as 24Mbps on ADSL2+.

There is only 2 logical reasons why we would be seeing these profiles, either its a fault or BT are considering a new higher speed product.

An IP Profile above 77.5 requires a sync above 80Mbps. So we need someone with such an IP Profile, (we still haven't seen any linked to in this thread), to have an unlocked modem and give us the stats.

Which is way off the topic. Nobody, including BatBoy, seems to know what was or is broken in the BRAS Profile system.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Which is way off the topic. Nobody, including BatBoy, seems to know what was or is broken in the BRAS Profile system.

The BRAS profile system has been reporting a Max Achievable Speed of zero for about a month, and also does not move.

Merry Christmas

Yes, we all know that but what's it got to do with reported 80+ Meg IP profiles and that they fix it? It's a non sequitur!

This thread has lost its way and doesn't know where to find it.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Which is way off the topic. Nobody, including BatBoy, seems to know what was or is broken in the BRAS Profile system.

The BRAS profile system has been reporting a Max Achievable Speed of zero for about a month, and also does not move.

Merry Christmas

Merry Chrismas to you too

You appear to be in an impregnable, impenetrable and unbreakable loop. I shall re-iterate. (Heh!)

1) The BRAS Profile system still reports a maximum attainable of zero. So if anything is fixed, it certainly isn't that.

2) You say in your opening post that they have fixed the still unspecified break by fixing the BRAS Profile system ("them") to above 80Mbps. Later you state that the IP Profile and the BRAS profile are different things. It therefore seems the 80Mbps does not refer to the IP Profile, leaving the questions open as to what it does apply to, and what it has fixed.

I'm baffled by all this. The only break you tell us about has not been fixed, and the 80Mbps seems to be nothing to do with anything. Just a random statement about something that has not been defined, never mind demonstrated or verified by a link to an example.

RobertoS with all due respect ip profiles work how its been told to work. Just because it works one way one day it doesnt mean it has to work that way forever.

Its no use saying it doesnt work like that without giving an alternative explanation.

Remember I did state earlier I am curious if those with higher profiles had syncs above 80000.

Merry Christmas.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 25-Dec-12 00:29:22)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

RobertoS with all due respect ip profiles work how its been told to work. Just because it works one way one day it doesnt mean it has to work that way forever.

ROFL!

(Sorry, but with that being a reply to my statement "IP Profile is a result of sync speed, not the determinant", that is the only possible answer).

IP Profiles are a function of sync speeds, not an independent variable in their own right.

As they account for some of the protocol overheads of the transmission they must be < 100% of sync.

I am still hearing for your reasoning as to why its happened or maybe you are as silly as batboy and think they setting profiles above the product spec to fix a invisible problem?

My original reasoning was either a fault or that these people were possibly syncing above 80mbit and having higher profiles set, probably in preparation for BT allowing higher speeds.

IP profiles are set by a script, that script can be changed at any time, whilst you seem to think its something that is impossible to change. So its certianly not impossible for a script to even set it higher than a sync speed.

Actually my current profile is higher than my sync.

The VDSL spec doesnt even require IP profiles its something unique to how BTw have designed their network, once you understand this then you realise they are likely a script added on top of the protocol and then obviously that script could be adjusted.

I am not saying this has happened but I am at least open to saying its possible.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Actually my current profile is higher than my sync.

Would you care to post the results of a BT speed test, showing the IP Profile, and also the current connection speed shown by your modem? Not something from a while ago, bang up to date for both please.

The VDSL spec doesnt even require IP profiles its something unique to how BTw have designed their network, once you understand this ...

Thanks for the gratuitous and silly insult - Merry Christmas to you too!

... then you realise they are likely a script added on top of the protocol and then obviously that script could be adjusted.

And that would magically make an Openreach product give a higher sync rate than the product spec?

I am not saying this has happened

That's good to hear

... but I am at least open to saying its possible.

No it isn't.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 25-Dec-12 16:31:19)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I am still hearing for your reasoning as to why its happened or maybe you are as silly as batboy and think they setting profiles above the product spec to fix a invisible problem?

?????????????
Would you care to read what I keep trying to drag out of BatBoy, despite your idiotic thread-hijacking suggestions of wildcat ideas about the reasons for higher than 80Mbps IP Profiles that both of you have failed to substantiate as existing?

My original reasoning was either a fault or that these people were possibly syncing above 80mbit and having higher profiles set, probably in preparation for BT allowing higher speeds.

That is about the first sensible thing you have said in the thread. It does at least acknowledge that higher profiles are being set because of higher sync, not as cause of. Or at least, I hope that is what you are acknowledging.

IP profiles are set by a script, that script can be changed at any time, whilst you seem to think its something that is impossible to change.

Which is why I have completely ignored on my website^* and in any post I have ever made on the subject that the 20CN, WBC and FTTC IP Profile setting is different? You seem to have stolen some of BatBoy's myopia - as opposed to your suggestion that I am being as daft as him in this thread.

So its certainly not impossible for a script to even set it higher than a sync speed.

Of course it is possible. What effect do you think that would have, other than for a variety of reasons causing packet loss?

Edit: * - which reminds me my update for FTTC IP Profiling is in fact still in draft and unfinished .

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 25-Dec-12 16:33:38)

Here is my BT speedtest result 2 minutes ago:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 70.15 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 87.5 Mbps

The Modem (hg612) gives :

Attainable rate (kbit/s) 86752
Line rate (kbit/s) 79999

Edit: Immediately after posting the attainable rate went up to 86980. It is constantly varying between the two.
The Plusnet current line speed is 78Mb.

Edited by ffox (Tue 25-Dec-12 18:16:51)

In reply to a post by ffox:

For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.

The fixed break is still there!

But so far as I can tell from BatBoy's enigmaticism, that isn't the break that has been fixed.

Hi Freddy,

At last a voice of reason .

That is very wierd. What does your Plusnet Current line speed say?

Not only do we have that high IP Profile, but it isn't even what you would get from the Attainable rate. That would be an IP Profile of 83.96 or 83.97, so it is far higher.

The expected IP Profile from your sync looks to be 77.4.

At least we have one other piece of useful information - unless maybe you have re-sync'ed for ages like the rest of us, which is that your sync is not higher than the IP Profile, and isn't even above 80Mbps.

I don't suppose you fancy a re-sync of the modem some time during daylight tomorrow, to see what turns up? Your IP Profile is what would be earned by ~ 90.4Mbps sync.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

What does your Plusnet Current line speed say?

78 Meg, he says.

Indeed he does.

That is also odd, seeing as it is normally rounded down to the 100kbps below the BTW IP Profile.

Hi Season Greetings to All
Sorry don't mean to reply to you personal but the system of the forum seems only option to reply is if i hit the reply button from some post so i did to last poster

TO TOPIC
I have seen members stating profiles ,synch speeds higher whatever etc (which all you right)
But forgotten ONE major detail


I was with TT fibre optic boost (now back to adsl) cos moved house) and they had me at capped 40/2 packet while the line was running faster (17a profile)
Now each isp is advertising up to 78,76 ,72,70 mb etc speeds, which at that point must be capped by the isp

How can get a higher speed no matter profile & synch if the line is capped?????
The case is simple:
At some places they must uncapped speeds

I am with Crysalis what believes

Perhaps they testing what the 17a profile can give uncapped
(Remember VM has 120mb in many areas so may be nice from BT to advertise up to 100mb - that what gives the 17a profi)

EDIT
Do all of you a simple test
Leave it few days to get stable line (all FTTC users know this by now) then after few days do a reboot
Probably It will go up to 90mb
Thanks & Carry on arguing (with respect to all, my last word arguing is like joking & not mean bad way)

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Dec-12 02:44:22)

I think having a profile higher than sync will have no ill affect as its end to end that dictates things not intermediate routers (unless they congested or throttling). Obviously BTw and isp's will have their own internal reasons for profiles but I dont see them as essential. I think one such reason is it makes bandwidth management easier as profiles as you said are 'typically' auto set based on sync speed and then these can be used like entanet used them years back when they published the % of user's on different profiles.

So whilst I think its possible for the scripts to be configured that way, I do also think its extremely unlikely it has been done so deliberatly, but it is possible its been done accidently aka a bug.

I wont bother with screenie for my profile because i believe mine is higher due to been stuck not the same as these other guys (is still 77.43).

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 26-Dec-12 03:58:06)

"The Plusnet current line speed is 78Mb."

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That is also odd, seeing as it is normally rounded down to the 100kbps below the BTW IP Profile.

No, 78Mb is the standard line speed figure Plusnet quote for an 80/20 connection syncing at 7999.

I re-synched recently - we had a power failure a few days ago. The figures I quoted are from the BT speedtester since the power failure. A test on 18th Nov gave:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 69.65 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 77.43 Mbps

Edited by ffox (Wed 26-Dec-12 10:26:49)

That's fine Freddy.

Now you say that, I remember that PN do sometimes put arbitrary high values in there to cater for some circumstances. Usually when they have had a problem dealing with maxima.

Of course, such a high value does not override the BT IP Profile. It only does that, within the PN network, when the normal procedure of setting Line speed a fraction below the IP profile is applied.

I power cycled my modem and this time let the PPP drop (since ip profile set on ppp connect) my ip profile seems the normal slight below sync.

This thread has just prompted me to check my IP profile, which is now 87.5Mbps. however, my sync speed is still 79999Kbps. This change of profile has happened very recently as when I checked it last week it was 77.43Mbps. Something is clearly going on, as to what only time will tell.

do you know if did a new ppp connection in that time?

if you didnt thats also unusual as its set on ppp connect.

Unfortunately I don't. There is no evidence of a resync or a new PPPoE session but that does not mean there hasn't been.

I have had a change in profile a month or two back where my profile was suddenly set to just under 40Mbps, yet my sync rate was still 79999/20000 with no evidence of a resync. Dropping and re-establishing the PPPoE session cured it but it is odd that it should happen in the first place.

yeah, I am leaning towards this been some sort of fault.

This is my test today

Download speedachieved during the test was - 74.89 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 77.43 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 18.62Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

My stats are in my sig and are mostly unchanged, I have never seen my profile above 77.43 I check it via this site.. http://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=B...

After a power-cut this morning, my IP profile is now a sensible figure, so I'll put it down to a Christmas present from BT while they fixed something.

The Max Achievable Speed is still zero however.

The Max Achievable Speed is fixed at last

I sincerely hope it is variable .

doesnt it always say 16mbit-ip profile?

so basically 16mbit and upwards is acceptable which we already know.

No, it's been reporting 16-0 for a few weeks.

Yes!

Download speedachieved during the test was - 17.57 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 17.77 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.97Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

But they haven't fixed Up Speed > Up IPP

And it's now redirected to http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ . Is that right?

Yes, they redirected it to avoid the Java zero-day vulnerability. A resync should sort out the profile issue now.

Not gonna resync just to keep BTw happy

I mean when its working. So in reality it doesnt provide anything useful is just cosmetic..

ok so I guess I am wrong, if your sync speed is not much above 16 they change the acceptable range.

here is mine.

For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 16 Mbps-69.04 Mbps

and I have always used that url, the retail url I didnt like.

Variation on a theme:

In reference to speedtest.btwholesale.com/:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 43.26 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-39.4 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 39.4 Mbps

So how can my download speed exceed my IP Profile?? Even the associated graphic suggests that 43.26 < 39.4

How long since you did a reconnection?

proxy, AV, broken system clock are a few things that can create dud results.