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Hello all,
Today is the date I was given by BT on which my current Tesco Broadband will be switched over to BT's 'Unlimited Broadband'. I have predicted speeds of 16-19.5Mbps according to BT
Tesco sent the MAC Code almost immediately after it was requested, and it has been entered into the BT system, this morning the Home Hub 3 was delivered, and I am now just waiting for the service itself to become active.
I assume I will know when this is, because the current broadband will drop out as it can't connect to Tesco, and this will be a signal to connect the HH?
(I will keep this thread updated as things progress)
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Mar-13 14:11:53)
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I believe are cases, both on BTw connections, where both ISP's logins work concurrently for a short period.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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It will be interesting to hear if you have a period of downtime because there may have to be some work done at the exchange - we never really established what exchange kit you are/were connected to.
Hope it goes well 
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UPDATE
Well, about an hour ago the lights on the old TG582N started flashing, so I swapped it out and installed the new Home Hub, broadband light went blue almost straight away and here are my stats looking on the advanced settings:
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:23:03
Downstream: 15.7 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.4 dB / 11.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 10.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
As can be seen my output power has increased, but I am pretty sure I should be seeing a higher sync than 15.7Mbps 
Speedtest.net shows 13.5Mbps throughput at the mo, I'm not sure how long it takes for the IP Profile to be calculated....
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Mar-13 17:10:23)
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Be patient, let it settle...the IP Profile is calculated from the downstream sync speed...hopefully you will sync at 24Mbps before too long
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IP Profile calculation is instant on the WBC platform
So is 88.2% of the 15.7 Mbps i.e. 13.8 Mbps so no problem there if speedtest.net is showing 13.5 Mbps.
it is possible the connection which is now in its first few hours of running is running on a banded profile, so might get faster. You need to be patient and allow time for things to happen now.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Just now downloaded a program at 1.6 Megabytes Per Second, so certainly faster than before
Is it normal for the Hub to re-sync at higher speeds than the first speed during the first 24 hr/10 day period?
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It is possible
As there were question marks over the lines performance previously, it is time to monitor and keep notes, but NOT ask about every little change until things have settled down now.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Sure, I will keep an eye on the ADSL line stats. Still waiting on the BTW Speed Tester to update, as it's currently showing "an error occurred while trying to retrieve additional details regarding your service."
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Is anyone aware of a tool like router stats that works with the Home Hub 3?
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Glad to see you have now transferred and are getting ADSL2+ speeds, but not yet quite up to speed. Give it time and it should get at or near 24 Meg.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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I think we were fairly sure there is a non-ISP-related problem with something, and I at least wondered if it was the line card he was connected to.
The thing is we can't be sure he isn't still on the same card.
I have strong doubts that things will improve.
I note that his attenuations are now in proportion.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Mon 25-Mar-13 23:02:42)
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Well what can we do except wait for the training period to complete and check the stats then?
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I note that his attenuations are now in proportion. I note that Down has not risen by 3 dB. as is usual, while Up has decreased by 3 dB. Is that of significance? Could just be short line or Tesco router, tho' he got similar from a BT Home Hub on Tesco connection.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Too tired to check back. I thought Tesco stats were showing 6dB/6dB attenuation?
Sleep time for me.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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I thought Tesco stats were showing 6dB/6dB attenuation?
Yes, using Tesco router (or with BT Hub 5.0dB up, 7.0dB down).
Therefore Delta Attenuation ~= -3 dB up, 0 dB down.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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One 'anomaly' I have noticed is that as MrSaffron correctly pointed out my IP Profile should be 88.2% of my sync speed, however according to the BTW Speed Tester my IPP is 14.18Mbps
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And the sync speed at the precise time you found out that IP Profile setting?
Still the speedtest.net result is reasonable for that IP Profile. Speedtests also incur other overheads that are part of your PC/AV software/firewall/router/network/internet variables.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The sync speed hasn't changed since it was activated yesterday, just interesting as 14.18 isn't 88.2% of 15.7 so wondering where BTW got that figure from
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One 'anomaly' I have noticed is that as MrSaffron correctly pointed out my IP Profile should be 88.2% of my sync speed, however according to the BTW Speed Tester my IPP is 14.18Mbps
13.85Mbps x 1024 = 14182Kbps - could be something to do with that
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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13.85Mbps x 1024 = 14182Kbps - could be something to do with that Good spot!
But, equally alternatively, the router does not exhibit many significant figures in its results.
So, Sync = 15.7 Mbps x 1024 = 16077 Kbps True.
IPP = 14.18 Mbps = 88.2 % of True Sync.
I'd back this calc as I've never found the BT IPP "out-of-sync" with my routers' reported Sync Speeds, leading to the conclusion that the BT Home Hub is using the unconventional M = 1024 * K.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Ok, I have just had a chat with BT India regarding my sync speed not coming close to what I was predicted by their systems, wasn't expecting to get much help from them actually but the guy did a line check, found the speeds I am getting then said he was matching them with the 'system details'.
He came back saying there is a fault on the line, he suspects it is a network fault and has escalated it to the 'Network Fault Specialist Team', who are due to call me back later today.
Maybe finally we can get somewhere with this underperformance problem, however when I track the fault with BT there is a little diagram showing the 'BT Retail Servers' highlighted, but I can't see how the problem would be with BT Retail
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"Maybe finally we can get somewhere with this underperformance problem, however when I track the fault with BT there is a little diagram showing the 'BT Retail Servers' highlighted, but I can't see how the problem would be with BT Retail"
No idea what you are talking about here. The sensible thing would have been to wait for the training period to complete and it is unusual for BT to take a fault report in the first 10 days. So half expecting this to turn out into a nothing will happen scenario.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The problem is the OP doesn't give us the full picture most of the time and tends to selectively answer questions. Also IP Profile and throughput seem to concern him more than downstream sync speed, attenuation and SNRM values.
Probably the call to BT support will only confuse matters even further...
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@MrSaffron Basically BT found a broadband line fault in their tests, so what difference would it make waiting till the end of the 10 days if there is still a line fault?
I am concerned with anything basically which affects throughput, whether it be attenuation, sync speed or Noise Margin values.
@4M2 what haven't I given the full picture about? I'm keeping this thread updated as things change and happen
I'm not sure I understand the "M = 1024 * K" that @XRaySpeX mentions above, is he saying there is a difference between my reported sync and the true sync?
Edited by deleted (Tue 26-Mar-13 16:00:34)
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Please give us the full results of the BT speed tester...
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4M2 was postulating that there is a difference between your reported IPP and the true IPP, while I was saying it was more likely there is a difference between your reported sync and the true sync; both by the same factor of 1.024.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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BTW Speed Test has a slightly different layout for my new connection:
Downstream:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 13.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.18 Mbps
Upstream:
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.68Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
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Sorry I'm on partial LLU these days, but does the BT speed tester still give a value for the downstream "DSL Connection Rate"?
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No, it doesn't any more!
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Strangely enough since switching it hasn't Wish it did could then work out the 'true sync' easier
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Please post you router stats verbatim to go with that.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Yes, on 20CN the BT speedtester did show the "DSL Connection Rate".
Perhaps that proves that you have been physically moved from 20CN ket to 21CN kit.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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No, it doesn't any more!
That a shame not having a DSL connection rate - guess we will just have to work with the numbers reported by the BT router.
After a couple of weeks if there is no significant improvement it would be interesting to use a DMT compatible router and check for any tone gaps plus, of course, verification of the reported stats including error rates.
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Which should have eliminated any issues at the exchange end, including anything to do with the line card....
Stats below:
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 00:34:51
Downstream: 15.7 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.4 dB / 12.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 10.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 24 / 169
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
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True sync, urm - log into the router and viola it will be there
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Forlorn hope but does router show sync speeds anywhere else, preferably in diff units?
That Down Sync does not gel with the IPP, which I trust from experience.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 26-Mar-13 17:19:34)
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Then why is IPP of 14.18 / Sync of 15.7 = 90.3% and not 88.2%?
You said earlier that IPP follows Sync instantly.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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DSL just re-synced, now at 16.13Mbps  A slight improvement, I'm now at least within the 16-19Mbps predicted by BT
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There's something weird going on here, @XRaySpeX I think you're right on the mark with the Home Hub not reporting the true sync, just checked the logs after this latest re-sync to see this:
18:17:40, 26 Mar. (92942.120000) DSL is up
18:17:37, 26 Mar. (92939.790000) DSL noise margin: 14.50 dB upstream, 9.00 dB downstream
18:17:36, 26 Mar. (92938.680000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16521 Kbps downstream
16521Kbps, way off the 16.13Mbps shown by the Line Stats
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Probably because of a 1024 issue.
I don't have access to the full source code and logic of the router or the BT speed test systems to give you the answer you really want.
Are you questioning whether the IP profile follows the sync speed immediately on WBC? Or just querying the value?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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16521Kbps, way off the 16.13Mbps shown by the Line Stats
16.134Mbps x 1024 = 16521Kbps
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Post deleted by Chrysalis
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Had you been following this you would have seen we had already identified a 1024 issue. Hence I am just questioning the sync value reported by the router, as from experience I trust the IPP value reported by BTw. That is why we are talking here about "True Sync".
There is no need for access to any source code; the logic can be reversed engineered empirically.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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18:17:36, 26 Mar. (92938.680000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16521 Kbps downstream Well, there you have it! The elusive "True Sync" we have been postulating  .
In future, please always report logged sync along with router stats and IPP.
What is IPP now? 14.57 Meg?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Soooo close, it's:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 14.71 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.58 Mbps
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Throughput is more than IP Profile - glad I went to partial LLU rather than 21CN WBC
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Download speed achieved during the test was - 14.71 Mbps Don't trust this figure! It's higher than IPP (this time but not last), which is impossible.
You can trust IPP, but BTw Speedtester is notorious for sometimes getting throughput wrong.
Always use other speedtests, preferably TBB, for a reliable throughput reading.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Yep, I know all about that from my experience of 20CN, did exactly the same thing 
It's kind of weird how a router can sync up at one speed, and then the next day sync at a completely different speed absent any changes in SNR Margin or Attenuation, the only thing that has changed is a 0.1dbM increase in downstream output power
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Not weird at all, the noise environment is a fluctuating beast.
If you were to plot all the DMT bins you would probably be able to spot the variations, but that is going into detail I that would blow your mind
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I believe there are further complex factors involved other than attenuation, SNRM and power. But after a resync and the stat numbers look about right you should be fine.
Be patient and just allow the connection to settle.
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the only thing that has changed is a 0.1dbM increase in downstream output power You've been told repeatedly: stop concentrating on minuscule changes and even attributing significant effects to them. Just ignore them; they are effectively equal.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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I will. That's all I can do now
FYI I have found out my sync time SNR Margin is definitely 9db, for some weird reason
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I will. That's all I can do now
FYI I have found out my sync time SNR Margin is definitely 9db, for some weird reason
That's normal: 3, 6, 9, 12dB's at sync time, then there will be some variation throughout the period of connection. As you previously found with C&W an after-dark margin may be less than a day time one during the same connection period due to noise.
Personally I like to sync when it's dark and then I get a larger margin which is great for stability but the downside is I loose a little sync speed.
As you can see http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8592685799_490d8b... my line gets a little noisy at night
Edited by 4M2 (Tue 26-Mar-13 21:39:29)
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Yeah I just thought 6db was the BT default which it would try first during the 10 days...
And lol that's quite some noise there
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A 9dB SNRM should be fine on your short line...sorry I don't know what the BT default margin is.
Ah, but my attenuation is 6x more than yours LOL!
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I believe 6 is the default(target) SNR.
Edited by deleted (Tue 26-Mar-13 22:15:21)
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Yeah I just thought 6db was the BT default which it would try first during the 10 days...
And lol that's quite some noise there
It depends. The DLM will be trying your line on each Target SNR starting from 6/9dB and getting lower until it hits one which results in an unreliable connection/high error count; It's the way it works.
When I was transferred over to 21CN equipment I started off with a 7.4dB SNR Margin and after 3 days the DLM tried my line on a 3dB SNR Profile which I'm still on.
The DLM is programmed to try out each profile for a certain amount of time before it tries the next step; it's all a matter of waiting.
One thing I am interested in however is the Interleaving which is currently applied to your line. That indicates a high error count at some point has occurred or the connection has been unstable. As far as I know the DLM starts off connections on Fast Path and enables interleaving if there is a high error count or if the connection drops out too many times. Bearing in mind your Attenuation readings I would expect a fresh DLM profile to try you out on Fast-Path first...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed: 22494 kbps 1211 kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.0 db 9.7 db
Noise Margin: 2.6 db 6.7 db
Telewest (2004-2006): 256Kbps -> 512Kbps
BT (2006 - Present): 8128/448Kbps on 20CN Alcatel DSLAM -> 22494/1211Kbps on 21CN Huawei MSAN Edited by chris6273 (Tue 26-Mar-13 22:59:52)
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Not sure regarding the interleaving, I'm pretty sure my line could support fast path, I mean DSLs been up for nearly 5 hours, with only 2 FEC Events Down and 44 Up, so I see no need for interleaving but somewhere the DLM does
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On WBC 3dB is the default Target NM with Fast Path on stable lines.
EDIT: That's what it aims at but will approach it gradually as not all lines are stable and it is learning your line.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 26-Mar-13 23:28:47)
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Ummm.
The default, i.e. the value at which it is set on initial connection, is still 6dB. What has changed is that as well as being able to increase it on unstable lines it can now also lower it on stable ones. Seemingly after a much shorter period than its recovery period from disturbance of 10-14 days.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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So, a bit of a mystery as to why it is at 7db on mine, maybe the DLM trying out various settings?
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If your target SNR is 7 it would have to be manually set, the DLM will only change it to 3 or 9 in extremely rare cases (from what I've seen).
Is your SNR 7 or do you mean target of 7SNR?
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Mar-13 08:30:34)
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It goes up and down continually over 24 hours. It only gets set at the time you connect, and BT systems use 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15dB. 18dB used to be available as a manual setting on ADSL Max but I don't know if that is still the case on all products.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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Due to the variations in SNRM during a period of connection we always request the OP to supply his reported SNRM at the moment of a re-sync (sync time)
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Well, at about 4 this morning, unless there was some weird power outage, it looks like the DLM decided to do a re-sync, here are my new stats as of the time of posting this:
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 08:20:17
Downstream: 16.08 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.9 dB / 13.3 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 12.1 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 68 / 121
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
And here are the stats from the logs:
03:57:28, 27 Mar. ( 100.560000) DSL is up
03:57:26, 27 Mar. ( 98.240000) DSL noise margin: 13.20 dB upstream, 9.00 dB downstream
03:57:24, 27 Mar. ( 97.160000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16461 Kbps downstream
Weird that not much has changed
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Mar-13 12:28:04)
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Looking closer at the log it seems the whole hub was rebooted by an engineer remotely logging in, at 4am
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Limit of uservisible log >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
03:56:14, 27 Mar. ( 26.520000) Booting firmware 4.7.5.1.83.8.94.1.11 (Type A)
03:55:31, 27 Mar. (127613.420000) DSL is down after 577 minutes uptime
03:55:30, 27 Mar. (127612.080000) PPPoA is down after 577 minutes uptime
03:55:23, 27 Mar. (127605.260000) Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.motive.com; Connecting as user: ACS username
03:55:21, 27 Mar. (127603.510000) Initializing transaction for event code 6 CONNECTION REQUEST
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Rien n'a chang� then.
The 7dB NM you chucked in was just an intermediate night-time non-sync time value.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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The HomeHub 3 is remotely managed in terms of logging in and checking firmware versions etc.
With 6 million customers it will NOT be someone logging in individually to your home hub.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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That makes sense, they didn't update my firmware though it's still the same version as before
Download speedachieved during the test was - 14.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.52 Mbps
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Seems to be ticking over nicely - give it time and I'm sure you will have adequate speeds
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It is, but I have a question about these kind of messages which have been appearing in the event log today, here are some from the last few minutes:
14:34:14, 27 Mar. (38306.730000) Admin login successful by 192.168.1.74 on HTTP
14:26:57, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 1 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:26:57, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52253->173.194.34.174:443 on ppp0)
14:23:57, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 10 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:23:56, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52224->217.41.223.75:443 on ppp0)
14:23:48, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 5 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:23:47, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52204->31.13.72.17:443 on ppp0)
14:22:59, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 2 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:58, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 13 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:57, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52225->173.194.78.94:80 on ppp0)
14:22:49, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 1 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:49, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 217.41.223.73:80->86.160.220.137:52187 on ppp0)
14:18:41, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 217.41.223.72:80->86.160.220.137:52123 on ppp0)
14:18:37, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52114->173.194.34.174:443 on ppp0)
14:17:32, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 13 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:17:31, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52093->2.18.115.205:443 on ppp0)
14:16:50, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 87.248.214.50:443->86.160.220.137:52097 on ppp0)
14:16:46, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 87.248.214.50:443->86.160.220.137:52081 on ppp0)
14:14:54, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52016->173.194.34.160:443 on ppp0)
14:14:12, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 7 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
Very occassionally this blocking of certain packets leads web pages to stop loading, but when refreshed they will load fine.
Does anyone know what these messages mean, and if they should be there?
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Just had another re-sync:
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:03:03
Downstream: 15.99 Mbps
Upstream: 1.13 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
and from the log:
15:28:31, 27 Mar. (41563.880000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 9.10 dB downstream
15:28:29, 27 Mar. (41562.320000) DSL line rate: 1156 Kbps upstream, 16372 Kbps downstream
So my downstream sync has decreased (again), and the upstream sync has increased
How come the down sync keeps going down, even though it is within daylight hours ?
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Mar-13 15:33:45)
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Looks like your upstream sync is starting to settle down nicely, downstream SNRM at sync time increased a touch and hence a very small reduction in sync speed but nothing to worry about - possibly due to a little bit of noise on the line affecting the ADSL2+ frequencies at sync time.
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I think I'm now at my maximum achievable upstream speeds
Would I be right in saying, my Target SNR Margin is still 9db but a small amount of noise added that extra .10db? (as DLM can only set 3,6,9,12 or 15db values)
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Mar-13 16:22:05)
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Others can answer about 21CN WBC and how it works - but to me it looks as if you are doing fine
My experience of ADSL2+ is confined to LLU which tends to be a different "kettle of fish"...
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lol I'd be on LLU given the choice too
It looks like the increase in my upload speeds has resulted in a lower ping too my ping to google used to be around 30ms, it's now gone down to 20ms (over ethernet)
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Would I be right in saying, my Target SNR Margin is still 9db Yes but a small amount of noise added that extra .10db? (as DLM can only set 3,6,9,12 or 15db values) The opposite. It is a noise margin (SNRM). So for it to go up 0.1dB the noise has gone down by 0.1dB.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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Ok, so it was something else which caused the lower sync then...
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How's Dad taking all this?
Is he finding his Net experience much better?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Ironically he hasn't used it much as he's been at work, but he managed to watch some iplayer on TV without any buffering over wifi I think he's just glad to be getting better value for money
P.S. Now seeing a few more upstream CRC, HEC and Error Seconds, assuming it's because upstream sync has never experienced it's full potential before
I'm also hoping that what happened to my upstream sync will also happen to my downstream sync in time
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Mar-13 16:59:36)
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Despite what the router reports, I believe you are now on Fast Path. Hence the faster pings. WBC usually give no more than 888K Up on Interleaved but well over 1 Meg Up on Fast Path.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Post deleted by matthewcl375
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Post deleted by 4M2
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Yes, I've heard that 1.2Mbps is the upper limit
You may be right my ping to BT's Gateway server is only 17-18ms
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I misread OP was pinging over wireless
Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 27-Mar-13 17:15:12)
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I misread OP was pinging over wireless
I'm starting to get lost and misreading things yet again in this thread.
Think I might be getting information overload 
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Haha, the long and the short of it is, I am still on interleaved, judging by other people's pings, if I was on fast path I would be seeing pings of 10-14ms
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How do these stats look, for a day's connection?
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 02:45:09
Downstream: 15.99 Mbps
Upstream: 1.13 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 25 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 106
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 121
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 70
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Looks fine - not many FEC Events though considering the router is showing Interleaved. However I don't know anything about the BT router so I guess anything is possible
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Only thing I've noticed so far, I am seeing a lot of these kind of message in the logs:
OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0)
Sometimes, and I mean sometimes, this causes a web page to stop loading half way through and need a refresh... looking at the BT forums seems this is a known issue with the newest firmware
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Only thing I've noticed so far, I am seeing a lot of these kind of message in the logs:
OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0)
Sometimes, and I mean sometimes, this causes a web page to stop loading half way through and need a refresh... looking at the BT forums seems this is a known issue with the newest firmware
Buy dad a Billion "n" router for his birthday 
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Hey, if I had 100% control over the broadband, trust me I would be buying some proper professional equipment from Cisco or the likes
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Well, there's not much to say. Not much has changed, as you'd expect from no re-syncs in that period. All you can say is that it has managed to stay up for 26 hours. No great shakes!
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0) Amazon doesn't want your custom.
BTW: You are publishing your browsing history.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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I would be buying some proper professional equipment from Cisco
NO ! They are too fussy by half to be used on a 'normal' residential set up.
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But then I wouldn't have a normal set up would I I would dig up the street and put a cabinet in so I could get FTTC
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Ok, about 1hr 45mins ago another re-sync happened, and it seems we are now on fast path
Obviously all that uptime yesterday was required for the DLM to test whether or not the line could support it, here are stats so far:
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 01:45:42
Downstream: 16.06 Mbps
Upstream: 1.156 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 19.9 dBm / 11.7 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 8 / 73
A ping from my server (connected over ethernet) to google.com comes back at 12ms
However, speed tests are now only showing up to 10.5Mbps  Any idea why this is and any way it can be improved?
Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Mar-13 14:47:44)
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A ping from my server (connected over ethernet) to google.com What server are you running? Could it be hogging your bandwidth?
Do a speedtest at TBB and post the Direct Graph Button.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13645...
My server just does basic file sharing and IIS, it's off now and speeds seem to have improved on speediest.net as well, maybe just a temporary thing, it has been known to do it before
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As matter of interest, why are you running IIS?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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It's just for any PHP hosting/testing I need to do, not really being used for much at the moment though, but I might start using it a bit more with this wider bandwidth
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Just thought, lower throughput on speedtest.net could be because it's good friday and a lot of people are at home using the internet
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Has it been known for the switch to fast path to cause bandwidth decreases?
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It could cause packet errors and retransmits which would reduce throughput.
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Any idea how to get put back to interleaved again? I don't really need fastpath tbh... if it's just gonna cause packet loss
Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Mar-13 23:58:11)
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As far as I know, it's completely automatic so you can't influence it.
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Can go either way. See my experience 1.5 years ago, 3 posts from: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/t/4045564... . I think I've been on Fast Path @ 3 dB NM ever since.
However the Interleaving depth (depth =1 for Fast Path) is set auto by DLM and if the line is not stable enough to take Fast Path it is unlikely that it will bear a 3 dB NM with the benefit of fast sync speeds.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Original poster needs to stop worrying and just use connection
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Exactly, just as I was thinking, a watched router never boils
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Fair, stats after 1 day 10 hours on fastpath:
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 09:30:19
Downstream: 16.06 Mbps
Upstream: 1.156 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.8 dB / 6.4 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 19.9 dBm / 11.7 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 22 / 58
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 13 / 71
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 30 / 121
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Hopefully after the next re-sync (don't reboot yourself) the downstream sync time SNRM will drop to 6dB (or even 3dB) and then you will be smiling
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Does this follow the same as before: after 10 days the DLM will lower your Target Noise Margin providing the line is stable?
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Others will hopefully answer that - I'm on partial LLU, which as I said before, is a very different "kettle of fish". But I'm sure any advice will be to just remain patient
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Hub's done another re-sync and I think the Target Noise Margin is now 6db, giving a rough 1mb increase in sync speed
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 02:49:07
Downstream: 17.09 Mbps
Upstream: 1.125 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 7.2 dB / 6.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 11.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 53 / 121
Edited by deleted (Sun 31-Mar-13 15:45:54)
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Looking good
Edit: its really interesting to see that on your very short line the ADSL2+ attenuations are the same as when you were on G.992.1 annex A...
Edited by 4M2 (Sun 31-Mar-13 16:51:48)
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(Not the Up attn.).
Or the 21CN kit has less resistance
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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You are now syncing at 17.5 Meg at the default 6dB NM.
However, I'm afraid that I find that this short line is still seriously under-performing. It should be syncing well over 20 Meg, if not at the max. of 24 Meg, and it should have got there by now.
My much longer 26 db attn. line syncs about the same on a 6dB NM.
EDIT: Wait and see if and what a 3dB NM can do to it.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 31-Mar-13 18:24:24)
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Yes I should have said the ADSL2+ downstream attenuations that we have seen in the OP's recent router stats.
I think yourself and RobertoS discussed earlier in this thread that the attenuations are now in proportion
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Yes you're right, I don't see what I can do though, if I'm syncing within the speeds BT estimated then I doubt they're going to see it as a problem...
Once I'm out of the training period tho may try another router
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Having similar under-performance symptoms on both ADSL Max & WBC would seem to point to something specific on your particular line & wiring. Have you tried running on WBC from the test socket?
If it's any consolation it took Orange 3 months to get my line running as it should but that is down to Orange's incompetence and the switch from LLU to WBC.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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I haven't tried the test socket again it's something I will get round to probably once the 10 day training has ended
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Jussst had a re-sync here's what's showing on the event log:
12:57:14, 02 Apr. (547313.600000) DSL is up
12:57:11, 02 Apr. (547310.950000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 4.90 dB downstream
12:57:10, 02 Apr. (547309.870000) DSL line rate: 1223 Kbps upstream, 19000 Kbps downstream
And stats:
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:32:31
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.8 dB / 5.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 1 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 2 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 74 / 127
Does this mean I'm now on a 3db Target NM?
Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Apr-13 13:32:21)
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No your sync time downstream SNRM was 4.9dB (~5dB) and the router stats show 4.8dB (also ~5dB)
But things are looking good - you'll probably still get a some more downstream speed out of the line in due course
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I have a suspicion the BTw DLM can set Down Target NM = 4.5 dB, but have never caught it close enough to find out.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Now the 10 day period has finished, what happens next? I assume the DLM won't be trying any more ways of improving sync speed now
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The 10 day period is just for working out acceptable min speed of line.
DLM runs forever managing your line - the clue is in its title.
You have a good speed. May not be the best but you can live with it. If it improves it is a bonus; if not so what.
Whats throughput like?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Throughput is around 16.10 to 16.6Mbps, according to speed tests, with an IPP of 16.8 so yeah pretty big improvement to the 6.7Mbps I had before
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The 10 day period is just for working out acceptable min speed of line.
DLM runs forever managing your line - the clue is in its title.
You have a good speed. May not be the best but you can live with it. If it improves it is a bonus; if not so what.
Whats throughput like? A thought.
I'm not aware of the question ever having been asked about the "intelligence" of the BRAS Profile setting (re MSR/FTR) at the end of the 10 days.
This line was seriously under speed, even allowing for it's generally poor performance. This was due to the high target noise margins at the start.
I wonder whether it will have set the MSR a the lowest speed at 6dB, or at the initial 15dB. If the latter, he needs a re-run of the ten days. As far as I can see, the only way to find out is to as support what his MSR and FTR are set at.
@Matthew - the level of the FTR matters if your line deteriorates in the future. If the sync speed stays above the FTR BT Wholesale will say it is still above the minimum expected for it, and won't accept a fault report.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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To be honest most ISP support seem to ignore MSR/FTR and simply go by what the online checker says the line can support
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I wonder whether it will have set the MSR a the lowest speed at 6dB, or at the initial 15dB. I'm not clear where you got these NMs from. This connection has never synced with a 15dB NM; it started at 9dB and has reduced to 4.5dB seemingly. Are you saying BTw would have carried over the 20CN history? Surely not!
I'm not convinced the recorded min acceptable sync matters much. I bet mine is low due to Orange messing about with my profile in its early days on WBC, but I'm not worried. Whenever I've complained to my ISP that my line is under-performing from its theoretical (Kitz) speed they have eventually done something about it.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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yes and back in the day when my adsl was syncing below my MSR, the engineer shrugged it off and even said he had no idea what my MSR is and didnt care.
BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 46/20, Current Attainable 74/29
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As @XRaySpeX says, it's never synced at a 15db NM highest has been 9, as that was what it was at when it was first plugged in
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Point of Net grammar: the '@' is used to direct something at a poster other than the one actually being replied to; not to refer to them by name.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Just a slip of the memory, sorry.
The same principle applies, and despite what has since been said about the FTR we do occasionally see posters saying their ISP/BT Wholesale won't do anything because they are still above the FTR.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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So, are you saying that the 10 day training should start with my best speed, whereas this time around it didn't since I was initially connected at a 9db NM. So I should restart the 10 days now I am connected at 4.5db?
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My understanding is that the so called 10 day training simply establishes the slowest acceptable sync speed that your line is capable of, if after that the speed reduces to below that acceptable minimum speed you have a possible fault which should initiate an investigation by the ISP. After the 10 day period your speed can rise and fall, as long as it is faster than the minimum speed, which can be due to changes in noise margins - a change in noise margin alone, that does not cause a reduction of speed to below the minimum, will not start a new "training" period unless the DSL connection has been reset by the ISP.
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No, i think he is saying what he has always said: Read this!
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Jussst had a re-sync here's what's showing on the event log:
12:57:14, 02 Apr. (547313.600000) DSL is up
12:57:11, 02 Apr. (547310.950000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 4.90 dB downstream
12:57:10, 02 Apr. (547309.870000) DSL line rate: 1223 Kbps upstream, 19000 Kbps downstream
And stats:
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:32:31
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.8 dB / 5.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 1 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 2 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 74 / 127
Does this mean I'm now on a 3db Target NM?
For comparison purposes I don't know whether this helps, but since we both appear to be on lines that are close to the Exchange, these are my current figures (I was transferred to BT just 2 days ago):-
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 09:38:07
Downstream: 21.31 Mbps
Upstream: 1.148 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 2.8 dB / 6.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 8.5 dB / 5.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 6 / 6
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 33 / 2
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 12
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No, i think he is saying what he has always said: Read this! Thanks, I wasn't around .
There is a bit of doubt as to whether the figure of 80% in that link should be 70%. (70% is what I originally had there but later it seemed it had been changed to 80%, now there is doubt about that).
I think the FTR is largely irrelevant in this case given the original 9dB margin. If I had been correct in my recollection of it starting at 15dB I feel it would have been important.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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If I had been correct in my recollection of it starting at 15dB I feel it would have been important. You were remembering, perhaps, OP's original Tesco connection on 20CN IPStream.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Very possibly . Either that or another current/very recent thread.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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@johnjburness your stats are slightly better than mine in terms of sync, hmm I seem to have isolated most causes of reduced sync so all I can put it down to must be something to do with the exchange or the local loop
To everyone else, is it normal for HTTP file servers to 'throttle' your down speed? What I mean by this is, I often download via Bit Torrent, and I see speeds of up to 1.9MBps. However on HTTP, I normally start off at full speed or close to it, but over time the speed goes down.
For example, I am downloading from Apple right now. I started off at 1.7MBps but now only at 750KBps :/
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@johnjburness .... It would be preferable to click the Reply button against the post you are replying to in future . For a starter the system then labels it as such, and there's no need for the" @someone" in the post.
You may not be aware there is an option in your forum settings to get an email sent when someone replies to you. So I could easily have got an email about this if I had that set - which would have been annoying, and if he relied on receiving an email to tell him he had a reply he wouldn't have got it.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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I know, but I was replying to more than one person so didn't know who to reply to
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This thread's getting pretty long, and I don't have much more to add, my line seems to be doing quite well:
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 5 days, 13:35:21
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.6 dB / 5.7 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 53 / 149
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 126 / 192
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 123 / 236
Going to close this thread, unless anyone sees anything else that I could do or any problem with the stats
Edited by deleted (Mon 08-Apr-13 02:33:14)
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