Routing Problems - BT Usless

Hello, Just looking for some advice.... rather stuck.

I have BT Infinity Option 2 all been going swimmingly, in fact I just renewed for 12 months.
I only really use my connection for playing a game based in Japan along with there forum servers etc,

6 Days ago between 12 and 5pm my connection the the servers stopped working, im losing 75% of packets on route to them, Ive spoke to the game/server providers 3 times and they say no issue for anyone else during these times.

Looking on fan sites based in the UK (that work fine) I see many other Bt users suffering the same, someone said they switched to there phones network via tethering and it works fine. I tried with Three and it works.

Ive done my research, and tried to relay that to BT in 6 hours of calls... ouch.

Only to be told "Google, BBC, Ebay work right? so your internet is fine" "Its not our job to ensure the data gets there" Im Gob smacked, Perhaps ive misunderstood the role of an isp all these years?

Ive tried to explain to complaints, as I dont recall anything in my contract saying only some services will be available at certain times, but they said the same Google, BBC, Ebay work right? so your internet fine"

So im at a real loss of what to do, They wont even admit there's a problem... so short of paying to get out of 12 months contract or getting a vpn anything else I can do?

Thanks

Edited by deleted (Tue 12-Nov-13 15:29:16)

If you post on the BT community forums you may be able to get a mod to intervene, and they can generally sort things out. Unfortunately you can't contact them directly any more, and also, it will take quite a few days before they even start to look at the problem. ~~ I think they are so overworked because the rest of BT service is so terrible.
http://community.bt.com/t5/Other-BB-Queries/bd-p/Oth...

The problem is probably not directly a BT problem but a peering one. This can happen to any ISP, but they should admit that it is a problem, find where the problem lies, and either kick their peers into doing things right or change their peer setup.

Actually, you can contact the BT forum mods from here using this form https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

If the issue is down the peering chain then it can be difficult for an ISP to do much.

If the issue is the immediate link leaving BT Retail then probably within their power to do stuff, but without seeing a tracert hard to say much.

And of course different ISPs have different peering arrangements. Some also peer outside the UK (not BT, I believe) which gives them extra options. So it might be worth investigating some smaller specialist ISPs, but you'll pay for the privilege and it doesn't guarantee you won't suffer with problems with the UK network even when BT Retail doesn't. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Thanks for the replys.

Im not to sure about changing ISPs as ive just renewed for 12 months, it would be cheaper to use a paid VPN (the free ones ive tried all resolve the issues) but after paying for BT to handle my data I kind of begrudge doing that.

I posted on the forums last week, I guess a mod didn't see it, ill give it a go but after the responses ive got from the 7 others at BT ive spoke to im not holding much hope.

If BT are not willing/able to provide me with he same access as other isps for whatever reason and there was nothing in he contract stating that the internet comprises of just BTs network, do I have an argument to leave? it will be hard as they see nothing wrong.
But would a mobile company be able to sell you a contract then limit how and when you can use it? To shut off the cell tower at certain times of the day, would they be allowed?
I understand routing is out of there hands, but its not for me to speak to there peering partners is it?

Ill include my tracert below from this afternoon not working and now when it is again now

The forums are hosted on the game servers.
Before when not working:
Pinging forum.square-enix.com [202.67.50.142] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 202.67.50.142:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\Users\Dean>tracert forum.square-enix.com

Tracing route to forum.square-enix.com [202.67.50.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 172.16.12.4
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 5 ms 5 ms 51 ms 217.41.217.45
5 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms 212.140.235.66
6 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 31.55.164.231
7 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms 31.55.164.109
8 8 ms 10 ms 8 ms acc2-10GigE-0-2-0-6.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.236]
9 13 ms 15 ms 15 ms core1-te0-3-0-16.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
48.156]
10 16 ms 15 ms 15 ms peer3-te0-5-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
.254.165]
11 86 ms 88 ms * 195.66.225.158
12 229 ms * * be1.gw1.lax3.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.161]
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 345 ms * 344 ms gi1-0-0.gw1.nrt5.asianetcom.net [202.147.0.178]

16 * 344 ms * squareco.asianetcom.net [203.192.149.210]
17 343 ms 345 ms 343 ms 61.195.56.129
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 343 ms * * 219.117.146.129
21 * * 343 ms 219.117.146.22
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

Now when it is working

C:\Users\Dean>ping forum.square-enix.com

Pinging forum.square-enix.com [202.67.50.142] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 202.67.50.142: bytes=32 time=281ms TTL=86
Reply from 202.67.50.142: bytes=32 time=275ms TTL=86
Reply from 202.67.50.142: bytes=32 time=277ms TTL=86
Reply from 202.67.50.142: bytes=32 time=281ms TTL=86

Ping statistics for 202.67.50.142:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 275ms, Maximum = 281ms, Average = 278ms

C:\Users\Dean>tracert forum.square-enix.com

Tracing route to forum.square-enix.com [202.67.50.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 172.16.12.4
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 217.41.217.45
5 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 212.140.235.66
6 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 31.55.164.231
7 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms 31.55.164.109
8 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms acc2-10GigE-0-2-0-6.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.236]
9 18 ms 15 ms 16 ms core1-te0-3-0-16.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
48.156]
10 14 ms 15 ms 15 ms peer3-te0-5-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
.254.165]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 167 ms 166 ms 166 ms be1.gw1.lax3.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.161]
13 166 ms 164 ms 167 ms be1.gw1.lax3.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.161]
14 284 ms 282 ms 284 ms gi11-0-0.cr1.nrt1.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.170
]
15 283 ms 285 ms 277 ms gi1-0-0.gw1.nrt5.asianetcom.net [202.147.0.178]

16 282 ms 276 ms 281 ms squareco.asianetcom.net [203.192.149.210]
17 283 ms 282 ms 280 ms 61.195.56.129
18 277 ms 313 ms 272 ms 219.117.144.70
19 281 ms 278 ms 279 ms 219.117.144.49
20 277 ms 280 ms 285 ms 219.117.146.129
21 282 ms 284 ms 284 ms 219.117.146.22
22 279 ms 279 ms 284 ms 202.67.50.134
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

Any ideas?
Thanks

So BT aren't useless then? Because according to your trace it is leaving their network fine, the issue is within the Square Enix Co., Ltd. network

So BT aren't useless then? Because according to your trace it is leaving their network fine, the issue is within the Square Enix Co., Ltd. network

And yet the issue does not occur with other isps?

The problem seems to be how asianetcom.net are handling data from the path BT uses, perhaps the handovers are over loaded. But is that for me to fix? or the team Bt has in place to manage its links?

Isnt that what I pay an ISP for? to ensure data gets there? I dont recall signing up to a BT/UK intranet.

Edited by deleted (Tue 12-Nov-13 23:16:05)

thats an issue fixable by BT unless BT only have one transit path to asianetcom.net(very unlikely).

The problem I guess with it been asian traffic its probably a very small volume of BT traffic so they likely havent the volume of complaints to notice it. Of course any network admin worth his pay should be monitoring these things and fixing them without needing to be told its broken.

At a guess I suspect alternate routing is probably more expensive so hence isnt been used. Also if the problem is intermment it may be deemed not worthwhile to reconfigure the transit path.

I remember when I was on aaisp a issue occured with one of their transit's and even with revk watching his network almost 24/7 (hardly ever sleeps) he wanted to wait many hours before rerouting traffic. He eventually did it after harrassment from people on irc but clearly rerouting traffic isnt something isp's take lightly.

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

So BT aren't useless then? Because according to your trace it is leaving their network fine, the issue is within the Square Enix Co., Ltd. network

the packetloss starts on the connection from BT to asiannet. Dont know who is to blame but since its at the telehouse point, BT can probably bypass it if they chose to.

But it looks like the traffic is "well into" squareenix before it hits trouble?

As I said it looks to me anyway that the issue is within squares network sending the traffic back, I'm not sure how you are expecting BT to resolve that for you if indeed the issue is within a customer network in a different country

Can you get a sample trace from another ISP that works it is probably taking a totally different path

Without knowing more details which I'm afraid you won't be able to get its hard to pin point the problem really.

I could be a routing issue within Squares network
I could be a routing issue within asianets network
I could be a routing issue within BT's network

As suggested I would go for the BT forum/mod angle to get a more personalized response

Due to the nature of the way the internet is built I don't think its any one ISP's responsibility to get your data there (re what you pay for) keep trying tho via forum/mod

Here's a trace from my Zen connection at about 2.20PM for comparison.

Tracing route to 202.67.50.142 over a maximum of 30 hops.
1       2 ms    2 ms    2 ms    192.168.0.1     [home.gateway.home.gateway]
2       20 ms   20 ms   22 ms   62.3.83.10      [losubs.subs.dsl5.wh-man.zen.net.uk]
3       22 ms   20 ms   20 ms   62.3.86.29      [no-dns-yet-62-3-86-29.zen.co.uk]
4       19 ms   21 ms   47 ms   62.3.80.49      [ge-2-0-0-0.cr1.wh-man.zen.net.uk]
5       27 ms   39 ms   29 ms   62.3.80.45      [ge-3-0-0-0.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk]
6       28 ms   28 ms   28 ms   195.66.224.21   [40gigabitethernet1-1.core1.lon1.he.net]
7       96 ms   106 ms  96 ms   72.52.92.241    [10gigabitethernet10-4.core1.nyc4.he.net]
8       157 ms  159 ms  155 ms  72.52.92.226    [10gigabitethernet10-3.core1.lax1.he.net]
9       166 ms  164 ms  164 ms  216.218.223.206 [pacnet.10gigabitethernet2-3.core1.lax1.he.net]
10      264 ms  278 ms  262 ms  202.147.0.52    [ip-202-147-0-52.asianetcom.net]
11      274 ms  276 ms  278 ms  202.147.0.178   [gi1-0-0.gw1.nrt5.asianetcom.net]
12      310 ms  279 ms  277 ms  203.192.149.210 [squareco.asianetcom.net]
13      278 ms  278 ms  278 ms  61.195.56.129
14      278 ms  276 ms  317 ms  219.117.144.70
15      282 ms  282 ms  276 ms  219.117.144.57
16      281 ms  277 ms  279 ms  219.117.146.141
17      279 ms  283 ms  281 ms  219.117.146.26
18      280 ms  278 ms  280 ms  202.67.50.134
19      Destination Reached in 279 ms. Connection established to 202.67.50.142.
Trace Complete.

Just guessing, but it does seem from your trace that there is some sort of congestion on asianetcom.net. Are the packets still lost when you ping squareco.asianetcom.net (during the slow period) with a long time out, e.g.

ping -w 60000 squareco.asianetcom.net

which waits 60 seconds for a reply.

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

But it looks like the traffic is "well into" squareenix before it hits trouble?

starts at hop 11 the first hop outside of BTs network. Hardly well into,

Well, here's one from Sky, I cut it short due to boredom:

Tracing route to 202.67.50.142 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms SkyRouter.Home [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 27 ms 29 ms 31 ms ip-84-38-37-40.easynet.co.uk [84.38.37.40]
4 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms ae-1.r00.londen01.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [83.231.199. 161]
5 303 ms 303 ms 302 ms ae-6.r02.londen03.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.3.2 ]
6 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms ae-4.r23.londen03.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.5.4 0]
7 291 ms 290 ms 293 ms as-0.r22.osakjp01.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.5.3 5]
8 300 ms 305 ms 302 ms ae-7.r24.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.3.2 21]
9 300 ms 299 ms 300 ms ae-4.a20.tokyjp01.jp.ra.gin.ntt.net [61.213.162. 162]
10 302 ms 305 ms 302 ms ge-2-2-1.a20.tokyjp01.jp.ra.gin.ntt.net [61.120. 146.94]
11 329 ms 303 ms 301 ms 219.117.144.70
12 300 ms 299 ms 299 ms 219.117.144.57
13 300 ms 302 ms 300 ms 219.117.146.141
14 322 ms 301 ms 305 ms 219.117.146.26
15 301 ms 299 ms 300 ms 202.67.50.134
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * *

It was all over the place on for me on BT yesterday, with 75% packet loss. Looks completely stable 300ms ping now, with jitter of only a few ms.

Edited by StephenTodd (Fri 15-Nov-13 15:46:11)