Advice please

I ordered Infinity 2 on 17 September via Internet and had an activation date early October. This date came and went without contact with BT. Throughout the autumn I had new dates pretty much each month until the end of the year. All these came and went without a telephone call or a visit except from a surveyor who came to look at my house to see where the cable would be attached and what the ground is like around the property. He explained to me that they would have to lay cable underground from the road into my garden to bring it into the house where the job will be completed by an engineer. Just before Christmas I had a call to say that I would be getting a telegraph pole close to the property in a few days and would probably notice the work taking place this would be a replacement for the underground work which the surveyor had spoken about in November! The pole did not appear until early February. This morning two engineers arrived to look at the pole and assess where the wires would run. I had noticed that the pole had been placed immediately between my property and a tree and any wires would run through the branches and (eventually) through leaves etc. Obviously this was not possible and would only cause further. They were also concerned that the line would have to run through other trees on its way to the pole outside my house. They had to ring their boss to explain that the easy way to do the job would be to run cable underground would which would be much cheaper than the poll option and could be achieved much more speedily. However, they do not know how long it will take to get somebody along (the subcontractor) to do the work - it could be tomorrow it might be in the month or so is!! Given that the original order was placed back in September and my 1st activation date was 1st week in October do you feel I am due any recompense? The only things that have gone well and to time thus far are the switching on of BT sport and the arrival of the HH5. My preferential rate was due to run for 3 months I think this should be extended by at least 6 further months; what do other people think? With thanks in anticipation.

Matt

It is possible that BT could, if the difficulties continue to mount, ask you to pay towards the installation. They have a Universal Service Obligation to provide a telephone line but they only have to pay the first £3400 of the cost. If the cost is more than that then they can charge the individual - it is possible they went for the pole route to try and avoid these costs.

BT have clearly got it wrong with their surveying. What I'm not sure about is if there are any specific requirements for BT to provide a line within a specific timescale. I can't find anything obvious that says how quickly they must install.

Do you have no copper telephone line at the moment or is this an FTTP installation.

Our copper line is in armoured cable and so there is no ducting. We were destined for FTTP. I first ordered in March 2014 and the install was finally completed 2 weeks ago. Like you we had numerous previous install dates that were missed. I only started to pay for the Infinity 2 once the work was completed and therefore the 3 months preferential rate stats now. I am not sure that I should be due any compensation for having to wait. I did have an ADSL service that worked perfectly well through PlusNet and phone with BT. Now all is with BT.

I'm pretty sure the OP must be referring to an FTTP install as you've suggested.

It appears from their signature that they already have a Zen ADSL account and an ADSL modem. I suppose that might have been from a previous house.

Thank you for the comments so far. Initially, before I placed the order, I spoke to a customer services representative who explained my options with regard to BT superfast broadband. She she advised me that the Exeter exchange was equipped to provide the fastest level of service possible and that my address and postcode could also receive the equivalent of infinity 4. During our discussion I was given the impression that I would receive a cable to premises service in order to receive infinity 2. My order which I subsequently placed online confirms this.

I currently have ADSL broadband with Zen. This is working effectively and have no complaint at all with the company. I'm only looking for increased speed. I've had several apologies from BT for the delays in my installation and the guys who came yesterday were very apologetic about the delays (as everybody has been so far) and explained that the process they were recommending (putting the cable underground to the house) would be cheaper than the pole.

Others, clearly, have waited longer than myself but it is very distracting to set aside days to be present when nobody turns up and without any notice. Also I have been getting so many conflicting messages about what I will be getting and how I will be getting it. At one point last week it was made quite clear to me that there was no need for poles or underground cables as everything could be done at the exchange!? However, the open reach staff are quite clear about what I'm getting and how it will be delivered; the message seems to get lost somewhere along the way.

I have requested an extension to my concessionary rate to reflect the time I've been with waiting. I will have to see if this yield any kind of positive outcome.

With many thanks

Matt

That description fits in with your address being service by WBC FTTP network.

So yes there is extra work to get this fibre from the point in the street onto a small box on the outside wall of your home, and then subsequently inside your home.

You are pretty rare, only around 170,000 premises in the UK with your speed options, and around 25,000 are actually connected, i.e. have gone through what you are seeing now, though for many it was probably a lot simpler.

In reply to a post by hamgard:

... and the guys who came yesterday were very apologetic about the delays (as everybody has been so far) and explained that the process they were recommending (putting the cable underground to the house) would be cheaper than the pole.

Except the pole has already been installed (so that cost incurred) and could service other properties as well.

I wonder if they will remove it once your underground feed is in place, or whether it will stay there unused for ever. Or, even be used for others!

FTTP is still a very niche product, even within BT. The product is only supported by one team in Dundee but there is no way that I am aware of that you can contact them directly if you have a problem after deployment.

I had a minor problem with the Fibre Home Phone activation which took me a while to get resolved because you need to access the standard support route but then no one knows what you are talking about. Hopefully this will either improve or I will have no further need to contact support.

By way of update since my last post - I received 6 e-mails last week, 3 saying that my installation date had been put back indefinitely and 3 confirming that installation would take place on the 11th as previously indicated on the website! I didn't really expect that the installation would take place and I telephoned the day before to check just what was happening. I contacted the cancellations department as it always seems to be the easiest way to get to speak to somebody without sitting in a queue. I was advised by a very pleasant young guy who spent a lot of time checking with others in different departments that my activation would indeed take place the following day (11 March). At 8 AM on the 11th a BT open reach worker arrived, checked out the pole, took a photograph, opened up a hatch in the pavement, took a photograph and drove away. That was the only sighting of anybody from BT. Today I've had a phone call to say that my installation will take place externally on 2 April and internally on 7 April. I think, I feel a bit more positive about it this time but this might be a triumph of hope over experience! I did get the young guy in the cancellations department to agree to refund my recently renewed quarterly charge to Zen which was activated on 6 of March. He agreed it was in unnecessary expense incurred due to the fault of BT; he gave me an e-mail address to forward the invoice e-mail to as and when I was happy with the installation of the new package. I very much hope this is an end to the matter but maybe not...

By way of further update: yesterday morning two workers arrived with a mini digger, various barriers and cones to cordon off the area around the pole outside the house and after 30 min of frantic action and digging on the pavement they disappeared. I then received confirmation e-mails to say that my internal and external dates of 2nd and 7th April still stand! So, it looks like this might actually happen after nearly 7 months' waiting!!

A different enquiry - what will happen on the day of activation? When the engineer comes to do the installation what is the actually install about other than linking the external cable indoors and linking it to my main BT socket? Does he install the HH5 and set it up? As I use Apple Mac will he be able to cope with that?

Many thanks

Matt

Yes. First he will test the connection with his kit and assuming all is good will then connect the HH5 and as to using a Mac, setting up the HH5 is all done through a browser interface so it doesn't make any difference what type of OS you have.

If this is (as it appears to be) an FTTP installation .....

The external date will see blown fibre tubing installed to an external point near the end of the new ducting, it will terminate in a customer splice point box, the engineer will then blow fibre from the DP node, by way of a manifold, to your splice point. Splice at the DP and at the splitter node, check for traffic at the splice point, and job's a good 'un.

On the internal date, an installer will agree a site for the ONTE*, install a ruggedised fibre lead in from the CSP to the ONTE, activate the ONTE, then connect up the router to the ONTE. Make a connection to your Mac (no problem whatsoever) sorted.

*ONTE Optical Network Terminating Equipment (the 'modem' on the end of the fibre that makes it all work)

Thanks very much - all reassuring.

Is there a better modem/router than the HH5 please?

Matt

By way of update, I was due an open reach engineer last Thursday (2nd April) who duly arrived to do the external work. Unfortunately, he did not complete the work because preliminary connections had not been made and my connection/activation day has been put back further. And now a new date for the preliminary external work is to be done on 14 April, that's very provisional I imagine!!

I spent nearly 2 hours on the telephone trying to find somebody who could tell me what was happening. I spoke initially with the cancellation team, who tried to contact the STTP team without success and eventually hung up after more than 50 min. I tried another number, without success. Then I retried the cancellation team and a rather unhelpful woman moved me on to the open orders team somewhere in India which is where I got my new date from. Where is all this going on why so much ineptitude??

I'm on the point of cancelling altogether.

Unfortunately this is not unusual and is probably one of the reason there are so few retailers offering openreach FTTP installs. Openreach chuck this stuff in the ground without enough checks to make sure it's been done correctly , then their uncoordinated systems botch the installation process leading to wasted visits that can't complete the order. In some ways I pity those that get FTTP due to long winded commissioning and installation they have to endure.

apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I thought it worth reporting back.

I originally started this thread back in March last year. Since then I have had numerous activation dates which have come and gone. Back in October, in desperation, I wrote to Gavin Patterson BT's chief executive and within 24-hours had received a call from his office promising to follow up on the order and get back to me. Since then, I have had updates every 2 weeks and finally the engineers arrived this morning to do the external work prior to installation and activation on 26 January. That is a full 16 months since my original order was placed. I must say I have always been treated with politeness and a genuine intention to get things moving but there appears to be a disconnect between one department and another which leads to delays like this.

I have been kept up-to-date by Lauren Griffiths, Executive Level Complaints and she has been very obliging and thus far has kept her word. We have touched on recompense and that is to be discussed more fully after activation.

Any thoughts about what might be reasonable given the amount of time I have been waiting and the time that has been wasted on appointments which have not been kept?

Many thanks

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Jan-16 15:22:03)

When I had a problem getting a fault even acknowledged before going through Gavin's office and finally getting it fixed after some six months or so of up and down I2 speeds before a good engineer finally found and fixed the actual fault, between free months and reduced month;y charge I basically got just over one year's I2 for free. Plus, after moving a few months ago, which was a few months before the reduced monthly fee would have reverted to the full rate and being willing to sign a new 18 month contract at the new address, I kept that old lower price, which is still lower than the latest going rate for I2, for the life of the new 18 month contract and the move itself couldn't have been better.

So I've seen both the good and the bad with BT but latterly it has been just the good. So credit where it is due as I am fast enough to complain when it is bad. Though I do feel for those of you who are only seeing the bad side for now, as I've been there and now just how frustrating it can be. Even more so when you see how good a job they can do at times if you get a good engineer.

I've used the Exec complaints system and like you have found the staff helpful and anxious to sort the problem even when, for technical reasons, it may have taken time

Although it's not clear from your posts I'm assuming you've had access to phone and broadband service throughout the time you've been waiting. If that is not the case my answer would be different

You may find that a request for 12 months free access to the full suite of BTSport standard def via a sky box could work together with free activation of Infinity and the cheapest current rate for unlimited infinty plus cheapest rate for anytime calls

I can't know how many missed appointments there have been or what inconvenience or cost has been involved. They'll be keen to retain your goodwill and I'm sure reasonable arguments will be listened to. Like anything else, over the top demands will not produce the best result and friendly requests will work to your benefit

Wait until it's all working to your complete satisfaction before settling

Thank you for your response, I appreciate your comments which are extremely helpful. At one point during the early days of broken promises regarding activation etc I was promised a refund on my current Internet provider charges. This was never put in writing but was a verbal promise from a member of the retention team at BT. I think I would be satisfied with free Internet connection for the duration of the initial contract, no charges for BT sport and further recognition of the fact that I have been waiting 16 months and that during that time I was given at least 6 activation dates when I had to be available to allow BT engineers access to the house. This was extremely inconvenient. I think I will wait until after activation and see what is offered in the 1st instance and take it from there.

With many thanks.

Thank you for your advice. I will wait until connection is completed next week and then see what is offered. I have in mind what I would accept: 1 years free connection, free BT sport and honouring of a promise made last March by the retention team that any costs incurred with my present provider would be met by BT as and when my connection had been completed (I do not have this in writing) but when I mentioned it to the executive staff member I have been communicating with she did not seem disturbed in anyway.

I will keep you informed and thank you again for your advice.

This morning at 8:30 AM the engineer arrived (24 hours early!) To install the internal bits and pieces that make the system work. Everything was done in about 2 hours and we went through a simple setup and he was very obliging in making sure it all worked. I check my speeds and they are above what I was expecting so, on that front, I am happy. Now it comes to the matter of compensation etc. I have initiated the process and we'll see what happens. I know what I will accept after guidance here (thank you very much) and it seems like we have come to the end of a long saga. Onwards and upwards I suppose!

Thanks real support and assistance.

Wow and I though Openreach dragging there heels for nearly 6 weeks was bad...

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Wow and I though Openreach dragging there heels for nearly 6 weeks was bad...

Hardly six weeks given you were initially told your new connection would be on 11 Jan and all was done and dusted by around 22 Jan which by my reckoning is 11 days.

However Openreach was supposed to of completed work during and before this time....

So whilst your comments are fair, they were still behind schedule.

After activation on Monday I have been negotiating with Lauren Griffiths in the executive complaints team and we have more or less agreed on the following:-

6 months broadband free of charge followed by 6 months at £15.50 per month +12 months BT sport via sky free of charge.

If I wanted any more or felt this was unreasonable I would have to go to the ombudsman and. I don't think I got the will to take it that far. In some ways, I think the attitude changed after activation and there was much more in the way of a hardline after that i.e. this is all we have to offer, take it or leave it!

In the end, I have other things to do and have pursued this long and hard enough over the last 16 months.

Thank you for your support.

Matt

Main thing is it's sorted at last

Since the BT Sport package is worth about £60 on top of the free broadband I think going to the Ombudsman could have ended up as a poor decision

As you say, more things to sort than chasing the last fiver once you feel you have a fair deal