In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

I'm afraid you are wrong there Mr.Crowther. The OP is on FTTC and the Openreach DLM, controlled by Openreach, is the one controlling the line. The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

and we already know that Sky FTTC systems know the sync speed as they return it to the user in the DHCP packet - and Sky doesn't use BT Wholesale's system or BT's IP Profiles - but probably have their own equivalent.

Exactly .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I spent a lot of yesterday doing revisions to my website, particularly re FTTC DLM and IP Profiles. The stuff I put up soon after FTTC was introduced was way short of what we know now.

Have a look at the Openreach DLM page.

Your link above needs revision because it misleads people into thinking that Openreach are in charge of DLM, which is not the case as BT Wholesale is.

I'm afraid you are wrong there Mr.Crowther. The OP is on FTTC and the Openreach DLM, controlled by Openreach, is the one controlling the line. The BT Wholesale DLM is involved, but only to the extent of setting the IP Profile when notified of the sync speed by the OR one.

I think you better check with BT Operate, because they say different.

Note: I was not talking about the OP, I was talking about your (Not so good) website, please in future read the post before posting your reply. If you are unable to understand English I am sure I can refer you to some very good English lessons.

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:12:49)

are you ratty from bt care forum? as he/she was spreading the same rubbish on that site also.

DLM is openreach on FTTC. They manage the cabinet equipment not BTw.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

are you ratty from bt care forum? as he/she was spreading the same rubbish on that site also.

DLM is openreach on FTTC. They manage the cabinet equipment not BTw.

No I'm not Ratty, I don't work for BT, but I do know a lot of people who do (approx 100 people), due to the fact I live about 200 meters from one of BT's major sites.

So all these people who work for BT are wrong are they?

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:24:15)

of course the downside of capping the power is it stops people retweaking the snrm back down, eg. in the adsl max days one could tweak the modem and "undo DLM"

cant do that on a power cutback, I do wonder if BT cut back power on my line as well, as I was initially 110mbit attainable and went down to 90 and then again to 73, seems way too excessive for normal crosstalk, I also found a previous post by adsl24 on this forum where they noticed the same thing and they suspected power cut back from the cabinet as well.

If openreach are doing power cutback, I would expect putting up with the crosstalk is better than losing 20-30mbit of sync due to power cutback.

So Mr. Crowther, you are saying that BT Wholesale have direct control of the operating characteristics of the Openreach GEA product and can technically alter the service provided to other GEA users - specifically Sky and TalkTalk?

A link to any BT Operate document saying this would be useful, to verify your apparently unsubstantiated claims.

The following extract from the BT Group website seems relevant, particularly the final paragaph and importantly the final sentence:-

About Openreach

In Great Britain Openreach provides services over the �local loop� network (also referred to as the �local access network� and the �last mile�), a critical national asset that comprises the copper and fibre connections between telephone exchanges and consumer and business premises. Openreach is also responsible for delivering the roll-out of our fibre broadband network. In addition to delivering local loop services, we provide backhaul services that connect exchanges to communications providers� networks.

Our business is subject to regulation that requires us to sell services to all CPs on an open and equal basis, meaning that external CPs can buy services from us on the same terms as BT�s lines of business. To make this work effectively Openreach�s operational, engineering and systems capabilities are separate from the rest of BT.

My source for the DLM information is SIN 498, Section 2.2.1. Most of my information about BT Group services comes from similar documents.
_{Edit - typo. Edit 2 - for clarity I have added the words "for the DLM information".}

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:48:46)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

So Mr. Crowther, you are saying that BT Wholesale have direct control of the operating characteristics of the Openreach GEA product and can technically alter the service provided to other GEA users - specifically Sky and TalkTalk?

A link to any BT Operate document saying this would be useful, to verify your apparently unsubstantiated claims.

The following extract from the BT Group website seems relevant, particularly the final paragaph and importantly the final sentence:-

About Openreach

In Great Britain Openreach provides services over the �local loop� network (also referred to as the �local access network� and the �last mile�), a critical national asset that comprises the copper and fibre connections between telephone exchanges and consumer and business premises. Openreach is also responsible for delivering the roll-out of our fibre broadband network. In addition to delivering local loop services, we provide backhaul services that connect exchanges to communications providers� networks.

Our business is subject to regulation that requires us to sell services to all CPs on an open and equal basis, meaning that external CPs can buy services from us on the same terms as BT�s lines of business. To make this work effectively Openreach�s operational, engineering and systems capabilities are separate from the rest of BT.

My source for the DLM information is SIN 498, Section 2.2.1. Most of my information about BT Group services comes from similar documents.
_{Edit - typo. Edit 2 - for clarity I have added the words "for the DLM information".}

No wonder your knowledge is very limited.

If you look at this website then see the difference to what level of information you provide: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

Edited by robertcrowther (Sat 12-Jan-13 12:57:28)

The noise margin on FTTC doesn't control the speed in the way it does on BT Wholesale DLMs.

It seems to work similarly to the O2/Be one, where when they provide an 8Mbps or 12Mbps ADSL2+ product on a line capable of (say) 18Mbps if uncapped, the normal sync-time noise margin is still 6dB. As opposed to when the same line re-syncs at a lower speed still due to a noise event, where on cessation of the noise but before a manual reconnection the noise margin can end up high, as expected.