Speedtouch 585 v7 (vs v6)

Hi,

As some of you know I have seen the Speedtouch 585 v6 on ebay for �25, I am just wondering if it would be worth paying extra to get the v7 as you can get that for around �38.

Not sure what extras or advantages it has over the v6? Any ideas or advice would be appreciated...

Apparently, DMT doesn't work on the V7 to tweak the SNR / sync rate

Why would you need to tweak it? Is it really anything to worry about as a feature?

Thanks

With your line stats It probably wouldn't be a problem, but for people with long lines who need to tweak for stability or to gain extra speed It's a usefull feature.
Unfortunately some ISP's supplying speedtouch routers with incompetent support departments persuaded Thompson to drop the feature in later firmwares of the 585V6 and apparently later models.

I see... makes sense thanks. Do you know of any other differences or do you think for the extra few pounds I may as well go for the newest model?

Thanks

Buy the new model.

Do not even contemplate buying a V6 - if their past behaviour is any guide Thomson will no longer provide proper technical support for the v6 now that the v7 is out.

http://www.perifrith.org.uk/st585/v5andv6.htm

JPL

After reading that article it actually makes you think twice about buying a Speedtouch at all if they are just not going to offer any help or support as soon as a new version is released. Thats not very good customer service is is... ?

the v7 is most likely a worser product than the v6 mainly due to the dmt restrictions I would get the v6 whilst its still on sale.

But would the DMT really effect and end user that much? I have never touched DMT before and not really sure why I would need too?

yes for some its a clincher.

it is the sole reason I originally even brought a speedtouch.

when you dealing with BTs snrm profiling and BRAS profiles, the ability to adjust the target snrm is very valuable. Even without that the monitoring facilities of the v6 and v5 speedtouch in dmt are very useful.

I am planning to buy a 2nd 585v6 as backup incase the one I have fails, if I end up in a situation where I have no 585v6 to use and they not for sale I will likely buy a different brand router that does support dmt and does use the broadcom chipset.

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it is the sole reason I originally even brought a speedtouch.

when you dealing with BTs snrm profiling and BRAS profiles, the ability to adjust the target snrm is very valuable.

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Agreed.

I wouldn't be without the DMT personally although I have a long line (54 dB)

Perhaps someone on a shorter line wouldn't need to use it as much as their connection would be less susceptible to line noise bursts.

I used to use DMT extensively, but have given it up as it has proved more trouble than it is worth in my case.

My reconnections/resyncs. always seem to follow the same pattern:
1. start with new sync. at ca. 6,200 kbps during the day (less in the evening, of course)
2. resync. at 5,300 - 5,400 kbps the first evening
3. then stable indefinitely (usually a few weeks at least)

It is frustrating to sync. just below an IP Profile step (5,696 kbps) but while the connection is stable and otherwise performing without problems I guess I can live with it, even if the IP Profile system does constrain my profile to 800 kbps (15%) below my sync. rate.

I know from experience that using DMT will not be able to help me step up an IP Profile notch, and therefore I no longer bother.

The interesting point is whether the better handling of an imperfect line in the v6.2 firmware is more useful than DMT tweaking. I suspect it is, but am unable to check as my v5 router does not support v6.x firmware.

JPL

Hi

I'm surprised anyone buys the SpeedTouch boxes or hankers after them. The user interface has to be the worse UI on a consumer router. The SpeedTouch OS is unreliable (they use their own offering rather than sticking with the tried and tested Linux/Broadcom OS) and I've been reading of people with bugs in the firmware hoping for an update to fix them, for the same bugs that caused me to send back a SpeedTouch box almost two years ago!

On top of the bad firmware and interface the boxes are so badly designed they very easily overheat causing early failures and lockups/reboots, this as been a common complaint for a long time and still the designed hasn't changed until very recently, is the new v7 any better ventilated?

Many years ago SpeedTouch (when they were not part of Thomson) had one of the best consumer DSL routers you could get, the 510. I had one and it ran continuously and never ever required rebooting or ever crashed, with a very clean and practical user interface that Thomson would do well to go back to, if they are indeed allowed to as perhaps they didn't buy the rights to the user interface?

Regards

Phil

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I used to use DMT extensively, but have given it up as it has proved more trouble than it is worth in my case

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No problems here

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On top of the bad firmware and interface the boxes are so badly designed they very easily overheat causing early failures and lockups/reboots, this as been a common complaint for a long time and still the designed hasn't changed until very recently

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No lockups/reboots or failures on my 585v6 and my router only gets lukewarm despite being left on for 24 hours.

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No lockups/reboots or failures on my 585v6 and my router only gets lukewarm despite being left on for 24 hours.

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Same here more or less, had a dropped connection issue with
the 6.1.4.3 firmware (allows the DMT tool to alter your SNR margin)
but upgraded to another firmware and the problem didn't occur again.

I realy have no idear where you got your info from , did you just make it up , or maybe you have owned a speedtouch ST585 v6...

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On top of the bad firmware and interface the boxes are so badly designed they very easily overheat causing early failures and lockups/reboots, this as been a common complaint for a long time and still the designed hasn't changed until very recently, is the new v7 any better ventilated?

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I have had my ST585 v6 for 14 months , in those 14 months i have had to reset it 3 times , its never ever felt hot, not that i have cheked it that often as there has been no need as it just works..
I have found the GUI to be better than that of my new router supplyed by my new isp netgear dg834gt , as the only usefull line stats info is in the gui rather than haveing to telenet it for said line stats info..
the GUI is not great but is not the worst...
I had no need for DMT as i already sinked at 8128 , all i needed was a stable router , which i found the ST585 to be in every respect , arfter owning a d-link G604T which is also the same router the OP has at this momment..
so to sumerrise , speedtouch must of indeed fixed any firm ware bugs in the last two years, and have indeed realised new firm ware update resently, that i wont be instaling as mine already just works..
There are more than a few ST585 owners right here right now on this thread , that have said there speedtouch ST585 v6 dont over heat...

So who got it right the person that dosnt even own a speedtouch router, or the people that do..

ironically I have decided I dont really need it now I am on LLU, which is why I pointed BTs profiling systems for the cause. I now use the 6.2.29.2 firmware which has it disabled.

well ironically the speedtouch for me has proven to have strengths other than DMT. It is easily the most stable consistent performing router on my line and judging by others feedbacks I am not alone, for people with decent lines its probably just 'another' router but I see it as a long line router.

The gui isnt the best but I have seen other gui's mainly the bt business hub, zyxel, billion 7402 and netgear.
All but the netgear in my opinion have worse guis than the speedtouch, the billion slowed down the internet whenever you navigated the gui, the bt business hub gui was very limited and just slow, zyxels just looked poor. The speedtough gui whilst not great certianly isnt the worst I seen but ultimately its good enough for the job, I dont mind using telnet for the advanced stuff.

Of course there is no such thing as a perfect router everyone has their own desires of what they want from a router.

I believe the overheat issues are a small number of cases and likely as a result of people putting the speedtouch on a thick carpet or something that blocks the ventilation, mine is generally very stable. Of course whats the difference between a router overheating and rebooting and a router that doesnt overheat but cannot keep synch and loses synch. The both are the same result instability in connectivity, the speedtouch 585v6 is very good at fixing the latter.

current uptime - DSL-Link Uptime : 23 days, 17:32:49

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 15-Apr-08 08:52:56)

There are varying views on this thread, but an important one hasn't been mentioned.

Why buy off eBay for �25, (plus postage?), when you can get a refurbished one from DSL Depot for �23.98 including postage, with 2 cheapo filters and a 3-month warranty?

Re overheating, mine gets pretty hot and was unstable, sitting directly on an office desk. I have tilted one side up an inch to aid the airflow and now it is stable though still pretty warm. Looks like it is a variable!

Re tweaking, mine came with 6.2.29.2 international version, the UK version was released last month but rumour has it the only difference is the default PPPoA setting. Sync was 500kbps higher immediately than my Linksys WAG54GS, and attenuation reported 49dB instead of the previous 52dB, which will account for the sync difference.

SNRM steady as a rock. It drops by up to 3dB at night like the Linksys, but much later, and rises earlier. Wierd - just better noise management I think, bit-swapping is frequent, whereas with the Linksys it was occasional.

I downgraded to 6.1.4.3 to tweak but gave up tweaking after 2 days as the FEC errors went into several thousand per second in the evenings 100% errored seconds, throughput terrible. Settled for bog-standard.

Even so, the error rate was between 1 and 3 million per day. Now back on 6.2.29.2 and very happy, though it is more sensitive to electrical storms than the Linksys. Connected for 3 days at the moment, 450,000 FECs which is insignificant.

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Why buy off eBay for £25, (plus postage?), when you can get a refurbished one from DSL Depot for £23.98 including postage, with 2 cheapo filters and a 3-month warranty?

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Because they do not have them in stock!

Don't confuse me with facts!

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It is easily the most stable consistent performing router on my line and judging by others feedbacks I am not alone, for people with decent lines its probably just 'another' router but I see it as a long line router.

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It's an excellent router for my line as well and at 54 dB attenuation it got to 76 days uptime before a 'noise burst' or some other factor caused it to drop the connection.

I used the DMT tool to push up my sync slightly back to 4000 for a 3.5 Mb BRAS profile.

yeah I think the FEC increased because 6.1.4.3 although does have bitswapping it is buggy on the BT dslams and 6.2.29.2 as such will give you less errors.

Still no v6's on DSL Depot so looks like I will be ordering a v7 one tomorrow when I get paid. I am sure it will be good enough for my needs as I don't really need to mess around with the DMT (well I never had before), and also its 110% going to be an improvement over my current D-Link 604T.

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Do not even contemplate buying a V6 - if their past behaviour is any guide Thomson will no longer provide proper technical support for the v6 now that the v7 is out.

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The v6 doesn't need support, it works fantastically well and i would not hesitate to buy another even if the v7 is out.

I really can not see how the v7 can be worse than the router its replacing!

either you know little about the v6 or you see no value in snrm tweaking and monitoring of snrm per tone.

The v6 did need technical support from Thomson. Who do you think upgraded the firmware to fix the digest authentication problem that arose when Microsoft upgraded IE to v7?

JPL

I think they are saying that when a new verison comes out that Thomson will not support it...

that issue isnt major however, one command in telnet will allow older firmwares to work with IE7.

Agreed it is a nuisance rather than a major issue; quoted as a simple example of a fix that was delivered for the v6 but not the v5, even though the v5 was, for me at least, still within its 12 month warranty period.

Users who have sufficient technical nous to set a router password and upgrade the firmware are likely to be equally happy using telnet. It is even easier to use a scripted telnet session:

ST585 Digest Authentication

JPL

nice site of yours, I was one of the victims of speedtouch support policy, I brought a 546v5 new when speedtouch had already deemed it ancient.

Thank you.

Yes, it's particularly frustrating when the products are themselves so good, by residential standards at least.

JPL

Well, maybe for some of you the V6 works fine..for me its total [censored], it keeps loosing the sync everytime. Hope the v7 is better cause thats what im going for and hopefully stop the sync problem!

Their past modems weren't so good at all, i remember the old firmwares used to hand up the modem and you'd need to restart them everytime, you give them a new user and password and not even work! you'd have to reset from the back hole. total [censored], lets see with the new THOMSON 585V7 ! :S

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The v6 did need technical support from Thomson. Who do you think upgraded the firmware to fix the digest authentication problem that arose when Microsoft upgraded IE to v7?

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Thats yonks ago and as most people that go out of the way to buy a 585v6 to use DMT they didn't need the new firmware cos it blocked DMT use.

If you actually bothered to read what i wrote i said it doesn't need support, not that it has never needed it.

I did bother to read what you wrote. Sorry, my error.

JPL