New Router - To improve connection/speed(s)

Afternoon!

I am looking for a new Router, i've been looking at the Belkin N1 Vision (Offer: £30 New)... Would anyone recommend this router and what are your experiences, if you own one?

Would anyone recommend a different Wireless Router, instead of the above?

I am with Sky 'Unlimited' and I am fully aware of there T&Cs in relation to using your own equipment, so no need to remind me... The Router Sky Provide has a very poor Wireless Signal and cannot be tweaked (adjust Noise Margin) etc.

Hope you can all help, many thanks in advance

Most people I believe (myself included) would recommend a router with a Broadcom chipset in it.

Currently IMHO the best router is the Billion 7800N - http://bit.ly/wCOvef - but it's quite expensive at >£110; the next best is probably the Billion 7700N - http://bit.ly/xV1f9t - which is a far more reasonable £40-£50ish.

Another alternative would be the TP-Link TD-w8960N - http://bit.ly/wH5xxa - at £30-£40ish.

As for Belkin; I've had bad experiences with a few of them over the years, so tend to avoid them.

The 7800N allows you to tweak and save the noise margin (mine is down at 1db and holds nicely there); from recollection the 7700N and TD-W8960N allows you to tweak the SNR, but only stays in place until you reboot the router.

As for the Billion 7800N , is there a particular revision of this equipment I need or does the router provide software to adjust the Noise Margin or is it like all others, uses a hack? I'm just wondering as manufacturers tend block any attempts to hack the SNR by either new firmware which cannot be downgraded or a slight hardware change... I think I will go for the 7800n but I am still looking at alternatives if anyone can recommend any...

I use to use 2Wire Equipment alot and found them excellent but are hard to get hold of over here in the UK

Thanks for your help thus far @aramsay

I'm running the latest UK firmware (1.06e), and it's just a simple case of going to <IP>/snr.html to set the SNR - it was the same in 1.06d too.

I've put together some Cacti templates that you can download too (if you use Cacti) which will allow you to monitor your SNR, throughput, etc.

This page has some very good information on what values to put in to tweak the SNR, along with recommendations on setting Impulse Noise Protection.

This may sound obvious, but when purchasing the 7800N; make sure you do get the 7800N and not the 7800, as that has no wireless!

Hello

I bought the 7800N, I'm also on SKY and am really far from the exchange. I went from 2MB to 3MB by tweaking the SNR margin. Really couldn't recommend it enough, amazing WiFi coverage, stable connection... also love the QOS settings I have made it so XBOX Live is not effected to much by my Wife browsing websites.

Many thanks, much appreciated...

Time to hunt for the best price online...... :/

I don't understand this change of SNR..

It doesn't seem to make much difference at all....

I've set the snr value to 30 and it knocks me down to a margin of 5.6 Down and 8.5 UP

I've change it up to 50 and the margin is now 5.4 Down and 8.6 UP

I then change it to 100 and the margin is now 7.1 Down and 8.6 UP

I decided to change it to 95 and got 6.9 Down and 8.7 UP

Am I doing something wrong here as this makes no sense?

Just tried changing to a value of 1 and got;

5.6 DOWN and 8.7 UP

-------------------------------------------------------
Parameters:

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 736
Downstream 16378
SNR Margin(Upstream) 8.5
SNR Margin(Downstream) 5.6
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 11.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 21.5

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

I use to use 2Wire Equipment alot and found them excellent but are hard to get hold of over here in the UK

There are plenty of 2wire 2700HGV-C and 2701HGV-C available new and boxed on ebay.

Noise margin setting is a logarithmic scale, not a straight line. I don't know your router, but most tweaking is by setting a percentage of the value your ISP has set at the exchange end.

I think the standard Sky setting is 7dB. 100 therefore has no effect.

I can't do logs in my head , but on the more usual 6dB setting 50 would give you 3dB, 200 would give you 9dB. If you started from a base setting of 12dB by your ISP then 50 would give you 9dB, and 200 would give you 15dB.

With your base figure of 7dB, the results you are getting look about right.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 07-Feb-12 13:33:14)

How on earth could I get mine down to 3 db?

I'm assuming any speed changes would take a few days to come into affect due to the exchange, is that right?

I don't understand this, it seems to be making no difference to Sync whatsoever and the change in regards to the NM is no different

:confused:

Looking back a couple of threads I thought you mentioned looking for best online price yesterday (Billion 7800?) so I'm a bit confused.

What router are you trying to tweak and with what software/method?

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

How on earth could I get mine down to 3 db?

It should be 33% [ =100 * ((0.3 - 0.7) / 0.6 + 1) ] but your router doesn't seem to be operating on the same scale

EDIT: Got the wrong formula 1st time round.

Are you rebooting router immediately before trying to set NM?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 07-Feb-12 20:04:26)

I received the Billion 7800n today, so i'm tweaking that... Do you understand?

The lowest I can get the SNR Margin(Downstream) is 5.6, no matter what value I enter

Rebboting the router immediatly before setting the NR? The router resyncs with the exchange once I change the SNR Value, why reboot before changing the value?

I just cant seem to get it lower than 5.6 for some odd reason and setting it to 1 should bring it down around the 3db mark but for some reason it doesn't...

Blimey that was fast delivery!

I'm sure the many 7800n users here will be able to help you out...

I was supprised also, but they delivered at 10am this morning

Hoping to get to the bottom of this, it's doing my nut in.... LoL

Well setting to 1 gives me 5.6 and setting to 25 gives me 5.6... mhhhhhhhh

Odd thought - does Sky LLU work differently
i.e. you can't change it

It's done something because it was previously 7.1db and I know Sky's Kit locks it at 7db

I've solved it, it must be something Skys end blocking this...

I called Sky and asked them if they could release the capp on my line as it was set to 16mb, I wasn't aware Sky set a cap but they do after initial training.

Now that I check my Router, the snr is down to 1.3 and im syncing at 19661. It's been working solid for 30mins but i'll keep an eye on it tonight..

So, the conclusion is that Sky must have done something there end to stop the snr tweak to work. Does this make sense to anyone? Previously, my line was capped and I was always syncing at that rate so perhaps thats why I couldn't see any change.

They said that if I want them to change it again later then to phone and they will see what they can change it too. I obviously didn't tell them about my new router and snr tweak

SNR is set to 1

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

I've solved it, it must be something Skys end blocking this...

I called Sky and asked them if they could release the capp on my line as it was set to 16mb, I wasn't aware Sky set a cap but they do after initial training.

Now that I check my Router, the snr is down to 1.3 and im syncing at 19661. It's been working solid for 30mins but i'll keep an eye on it tonight..

So, the conclusion is that Sky must have done something there end to stop the snr tweak to work. Does this make sense to anyone? Previously, my line was capped and I was always syncing at that rate so perhaps thats why I couldn't see any change.

They said that if I want them to change it again later then to phone and they will see what they can change it too. I obviously didn't tell them about my new router and snr tweak

What I done for changes to take affect (in case other Sky Customers are having issues)...

Changed my SNR Value to 1

Emailed Sky who then phoned me back within 5 mins (very quick for Sky)
They then checked to see what my line would support and they supprisingly said your line has all of a sudden started to suport a max rate of 22MB.

They asked me to switch of my router whilst they changed this. They said they couldn't set it to 22MB as the line synced at 19 so the sytem asks for that value and then it's capped.... I said " can you just set it at the max and she said welllllll not really" so she could but didnt want to. Now when I check my router the snr changes are showing as before they didnt...

Why? I have no idea....

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

SNR is set to 1

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

I've solved it, it must be something Skys end blocking this...

I called Sky and asked them if they could release the capp on my line as it was set to 16mb, I wasn't aware Sky set a cap but they do after initial training.

Now that I check my Router, the snr is down to 1.3 and im syncing at 19661. It's been working solid for 30mins but i'll keep an eye on it tonight..

So, the conclusion is that Sky must have done something there end to stop the snr tweak to work. Does this make sense to anyone? Previously, my line was capped and I was always syncing at that rate so perhaps thats why I couldn't see any change.

They said that if I want them to change it again later then to phone and they will see what they can change it too. I obviously didn't tell them about my new router and snr tweak

IMHO 1db is a bit too low, i prefer to keep the downstream SNR between 2 & 3 on my 7800N, that way at least you've still got a bit of leeway. These are the values you should use to adjust the SNR on your 7800N:

go to http://192.168.1.254/snr.cgi
and enter one of the values below and save.

standard values are.
200 = +6dB
150 = +3dB
100 = +0dB
50 = -3dB
25 = -4.5db
1 = -5.5dB

The command does not accept negative numbers. However the command can be tricked into accepting negative numbers by entering high positive numbers.

65500 = -9dB
65480 = -9.5dB
65450 = -12dB

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

So, the conclusion is that Sky must have done something there end to stop the snr tweak to work. Does this make sense to anyone? Previously, my line was capped and I was always syncing at that rate so perhaps thats why I couldn't see any change.

Sky have always had synch caps aka line profiles in operation as far as I know. The DLM which runs on day 1 sets this cap. Once the synch cap is set it's locked unless Sky staff manually raise it, or DLM is re-run. The value it's locked at is in your Sky control panel, although it will not reflect manual alterations.

In reply to a post by aramsay:

I've put together some Cacti templates that you can download too (if you use Cacti) which will allow you to monitor your SNR, throughput, etc.

You appear to be knowledgeable about tweaking the 7800, but do you know if the same figures also apply to the 7700, or is that one not tweakable?

I've decided to change the value as you stated, i've set the value to 25 and my line states are below;

ADSL Status

DSP Firmware Version: A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status: No Defect
Operational Mode: ADSL2+
Upstream: 768
Downstream: 18848
SNR Margin(Upstream): 8.9
SNR Margin(Downstream): 2.5
Line Attenuation(Upstream): 11.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream): 21.5
========================================

It's a shame my UPLOAD speed seems low, in fact it has always remained low. When I spoke to sky they said they could change it from the 1MB it's set but this still seems low....

I would like to thanks all of those who have replied, many thanks all....

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

IMHO 1db is a bit too low, i prefer to keep the downstream SNR between 2 & 3 on my 7800N, that way at least you've still got a bit of leeway. These are the values you should use to adjust the SNR on your 7800N:

go to http://192.168.1.254/snr.cgi
and enter one of the values below and save.

standard values are.
200 = +6dB
150 = +3dB
100 = +0dB
50 = -3dB
25 = -4.5db
1 = -5.5dB

The command does not accept negative numbers. However the command can be tricked into accepting negative numbers by entering high positive numbers.

65500 = -9dB
65480 = -9.5dB
65450 = -12dB

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

I've decided to change the value as you stated, i've set the value to 25 and my line states are below;

ADSL Status

DSP Firmware Version: A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status: No Defect
Operational Mode: ADSL2+
Upstream: 768
Downstream: 18848
SNR Margin(Upstream): 8.9
SNR Margin(Downstream): 2.5
Line Attenuation(Upstream): 11.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream): 21.5

Dude that sync speed is a little on the low side for a 21 db attenuation...have you checked your wiring, changed filters, tried plugging router into test socket etc etc?

I've tried everything with no success, it's just my damn upload which is low and have no idea why when it's set higher at Sky's end

Are you on Interleaved or Fast Path? On BTw WBC connections Up Sync is limited to 888 Kbps on Interleaved.

What is it at Sky end?

I'm on the 'Gaming Profile' Fast Path.....

I decided to email Sky RE: Upload Speed and now they have decided to re-train the line... not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing :/

Any ideas what the value would be for -6db and -6.5db?

Thanks in advance....

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

Any ideas what the value would be for -6db and -6.5db?

Thanks in advance....

Try 65500 and then increase this in intervals of 100 until you hit the sweet spot

im currently 1.2db margin going perfect for 2 days now.... Syncing at 759 / 21312 kbps

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

Any ideas what the value would be for -6db

Use 65535 to decrease by 6 dB. These values are not that accurate to be more exact.

Personally I wouldn't go below 2 dB. Think what might happen at night. You sure you are not getting lots of errors even if it never discons?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 10-Feb-12 08:52:05)

1 Day(s) 15 Hour(s)

Interface Protocol VPI/VCI Received Transmitted
Bytes Pkts Errs Drops Bytes Pkts Errs Drops
ppp_0_0_38_1 PPPoA 0/38 2707809411 3178961 0 0 297328895 2437767 0 0


As you can see error/drops is showing 0 across the board...

Router wouldn't sync using the value 65500

I'll keep it as it is.... Current Sync Rate 766 / 21304 kbps

What is the Maximum Sync you can achieve on Sky Unlimited (LLU)?

I see some places advertising upto 20MB Service and others upto 22MB

Thanks all

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

Router wouldn't sync using the value 65500

Not surprising as you are trying to push it negative!

Sky LLU will be ADSL2+'s "up to 24 Meg".