Router choice for TT LLU service

Hi all,

I'm due to be migrated over to Vivaciti's Variety LLU package on Tuesday. I want to buy a new router and just thought I'd canvas some opinions.
I'm keen to match hardware as it's worked very well for me in the past and with that in mind, I was set on buying a Draytek Vigo 2830n as I'm aware it uses an Infineon chipset and so does the MSAN in my exchange (alledgedly). However, for me, the point of matching hardware is not only for ultimate throughput but, for ultimate stability and uptime too. And I've read mixed reviews on Draytek kit cincerning those points.
So, I'm now considering a Billion BiPac 7800n as it's allows SNR tweaking and is also reported to be very stable, with a Broadcom chipset onboard.
Another point to consider is that I'm not sure whether it was Tiscali who put the LLU kit in the exchange, before being taken over by TalkTalk. If they did, that would also like be using Broadcom chipsets.

Any experiences with either product, you'd care to share or advice in general would be welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

Ive always had shocking experiences when matching chipsets about as reliable as a Bank. Dont think you will go far wrong with either you mention, however as i use the billion, it works, very stable plus all the snr fiddling as you mention. Some people dont like the look and can have its own issues with the wireless.

Thanks for the response.

I'm not worried about looks as it'll be in the loft. The wireless gremlins I am bothered about though and have read about these elsewhere.
Having performed a little more reading on the Draytek, it seems the stabilty issues are only apparent with low SNR's. As I've requested/ will be on a 6dB profile, that won't be an issue.

Interestingly, I've just swapped over to a Speedtouch 585v8 on my current service and it reports to have an Infineon chipset onboard. So, maybe I should hold off and give that a try when my line goes live.

Paul

Chances are your exchange will have a Infineon chipset and if that is the case, then even tweaking the SNR on a broadcom chipset router won't really benefit you as an Infineon router will sync around a couple of meg higher. Go for an Infineon router and in case you find it syncs on the low side, then try a broadcom router. Also you might be wasting your money on the Draytek 2830 (~£200) if you're not going to use any of its advanced features. You could always go for pure bridge ethernet modem such as Draytek 120 V2 and connect that to a top class router such as Netgear WNDR4500 (N900), Asus RT56U or Cisco EA4500.

These are the line stats when i tried different routers on my talktalk LLU line:

Billion 7800N (Broadcom 6358)
Downstream sync: 15049 kbps
DS Attenuation: 27db
DS SNR: 6.1 db

Billion 7800N (Broadcom 6358)
Downstream sync: 17849 kbps
DS Attenuation: 27db
DS SNR: 3.0db (tweaked)

Linksys X2000 (Broadcom 6328)
Downstream sync: 15990 kbps
DS Attenuation: ?
DS SNR: ? db

Draytek 120 v2 (Danube Infineon)
Downstream sync: 17571 kbps
DS Attenuation: 29db
DS SNR: 6.2 db

In reply to a post by NilSatisOptimum:

Ive always had shocking experiences when matching chipsets about as reliable as a Bank.

I agree - matching chipsets isn't always the answer. It's finding a chipset that works best on your line that counts. That's why lots of us end up with a cupboard full of routers!

Interesting and I see your point re the SNR tweaking but, your results seem to contradict that. From memory, in the ideal world, every 1dB of SNRM is worth around 450kbps. WIth that in mind, using your 6dB SNR sync on the Billion as an example, I should sync at 16049kbps with a 3dB SNR (tweaked). But your results show a 2800kbps increase from a 3dB drop in SNR. Did you perform other tweaks to get your end result?

I've found the Draytek for a little less than £200 and would happily spend the money as I'd use a fair amount of it's features. Having said that, I've found the Billion for quite a bit less than £100... I'd also like an integrated solution so have ruled out a separate modem and ethernet router.

Paul

I have a Draytek 2820N (had it for several years now) and it has been an excellent stable piece of kit.

Recently I invested in a Billion 7800N to try some line tweaking after moving house (both on Be*).

In terms of stability and speed both work well. I find the GUI of the Draytek better (personal preference) and the GUI of the Draytek gives more data about line status, cumulative daily and weekly volumes of data transferred as well as instantaneous data volumes.

You can really lose with either.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

In reply to a post by NilSatisOptimum:

Ive always had shocking experiences when matching chipsets about as reliable as a Bank.

I agree - matching chipsets isn't always the answer. It's finding a chipset that works best on your line that counts. That's why lots of us end up with a cupboard full of routers!

Indeed, I'm starting to appreciate that too.

I have a handful of routers available to me now. One with a Texas Instruments chipset (Netgear DG834Gv3), one with an Infineon chipset (Thompson TG585v8) and one with a Broadcom chipset (Sagem 2504n).

I guess I'm just trying to narrow down a list to a couple of choices and work from that. FInding answers is very difficult due to the inherent variances with everyones broadband connectiosn and dare I say it, the amount of poor information about where for example, people state the flavour of the month is the best then change their mind when they try something else. So, I plan to post a detailed, objective, write up with my findings, when I'm done, in the hope that it will help others.

Paul

In reply to a post by greenglide:

I have a Draytek 2820N (had it for several years now) and it has been an excellent stable piece of kit.

Recently I invested in a Billion 7800N to try some line tweaking after moving house (both on Be*).

In terms of stability and speed both work well. I find the GUI of the Draytek better (personal preference) and the GUI of the Draytek gives more data about line status, cumulative daily and weekly volumes of data transferred as well as instantaneous data volumes.

You can really lose with either.

Thanks for the response.

Are you using/ have you used both the devices as integrated devices? Or just used the router parts?

Thanks,

Paul

In reply to a post by youngsyp:

Interesting and I see your point re the SNR tweaking but, your results seem to contradict that. From memory, in the ideal world, every 1dB of SNRM is worth around 450kbps. WIth that in mind, using your 6dB SNR sync on the Billion as an example, I should sync at 16049kbps with a 3dB SNR (tweaked). But your results show a 2800kbps increase from a 3dB drop in SNR. Did you perform other tweaks to get your end result?

Nup, no other tweaking other than lowering my SNR on the Billion. The point i was trying to make was that the Billion when tweaked more or less gave me the same speed as the Draytek UNtweaked, so obviously makes sense to stick with the Draytek.

In your case, definitely go with the Draytek 2820/2830. As greenglide has said draytek do make quality routers so pretty sure you won't be disappointed. Let us know how you get on!

In reply to a post by youngsyp:

Are you using/ have you used both the devices as integrated devices? Or just used the router parts?

Thanks,

Paul

I have used the Draytek in bridge mode as a modem only, an ADSL modem / router and a 3G router with a three wireless dongle plugged in (the 2820 supports the Huwaei 3 dongle) all without problem.

I have, so far, only used the Billion 7800N as an ADSL / modem with Be*.

When FTTC comes (soon I hope) I will compare them to see which device is faster in routing the traffic from a 80 / 20 connection at full speed.

I suspect it will be an interesting race! I might then put one of the devices on eBay to reduce my ADSL router count from six to five (unless I have missed one!).

Excellent and thanks.

I will definitely post up results.

I must admit, despite the fairly keen difference in cost, I am still swaying towards the Draytek...

Paul

Here's a tip for those wanting to know the chipset of their ADSL2+ supplier's DSLAM/MSAN.

(1) Purchase (as little as £0-99, from eBay) a 2Wire 2700HGV.
(2) Power it up, with it not connected to the incoming telephone line and perform a full hardware reset via the button on the back.
(3) Connect it to the telephone line and allow it to sync with the DSLAM/MASN.
(4) Access it via the GUI (192.168.1.254) and you will be able to read the DSLAM/MSAN chipset.

I can confirm that all TalkTalk lines, of which I have had experience, are connected to DSLAMs/MSANs with an Infineon chipset.

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

Here's a tip for those wanting to know the chipset of their ADSL2+ supplier's DSLAM/MSAN.

(1) Purchase (as little as £0-99, from eBay) a 2Wire 2700HGV.
(2) Power it up, with it not connected to the incoming telephone line and perform a full hardware reset via the button on the back.
(3) Connect it to the telephone line and allow it to sync with the DSLAM/MASN.
(4) Access it via the GUI (192.168.1.254) and you will be able to read the DSLAM/MSAN chipset.

I can confirm that all TalkTalk lines, of which I have had experience, are connected to DSLAMs/MSANs with an Infineon chipset.

Thanks for the information.

The Speedtouch 585v8 that I have will show remote vendor ID so I could use that to perform the above. I noticed yesterday that despite having a Local Vendor ID of TMMB, it actually uses an Infineon chipset. So I could even use that moving forwards if needs be. I just fancy a new shiny router though.

Paul

I thought your Speedtouch was a 585v7 which you mentioned in your other thread?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I thought your Speedtouch was a 585v7 which you mentioned in your other thread?

I thought it was too.... Until I got it out of the box the other evening and realised it's actually a v8 (Plusnet branded).

Paul

My TG585v7 (8.2.6.5 generic) says: Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM

TMMB = Thomson MultiMedia Broadband (TMMB is their brand Broadcom chipset) 544D4D42

BDCM = Broadcom 4244434D Ericsson

That's on my uno partial LLU connection (TalkTalk LLU kit at the exchange that as far as I know didn't have Tiscali LLU enabled.)

Edit: My exchange has been TT LLU'ed since the beginning of 2010 but the equipment may have been installed before then by Tiscali and possibly not used.

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 29-Jun-12 17:27:54)

Might also be asking Vivaciti to see what they say?

They are TBB members so may be along shortly...

On the router stats page, my 585v8 states the local vendor id is:TMMB. However, when I look at the summary from RouterStats, it states the 'Vendor Chipset Vendor' is IFTN with the 'Vendor System Vendor' being TMMB. When I take it off the network, I'll take the cover off and confirm either way.
Thanks for the info on the exchange kit too. The plot thickens...

@b4dger: I contacted Vivaciti and they advised they didn't have the information on the MSAN kit in the exchange.

Whatever kit is in the exchange, I've pulled the trigger on a Draytek Vigor 2830n now anyway. I got it at a fairly reasonable price so, if it turns out my exchange has a Broadcom MSAN, I'll just flog it and buy the Billion.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Jun-12 20:17:57)

DMT confirms broadcom at the exchange end also - just shows my IP and PVC info at this end though.

I reckon with your assortment of routers you should be OK - stability is always my number one concern rather than speed. I find that with a 37dB downstream adsl2+ attenuation and a 40 year old copper pair to the cabinet things can sometimes be a bit iffy - in fact DMT just displayed a larger number of gaps in the higher frequencies than normal (9.15pm)...

Stability is very important to me too but, I'm massively OCD about getting the best speeds possible unfortunately. The hard bit has been done as far as that's concerned, I just might need to spend some (more) money on the endpoint should the Draytek not suit. I've absolutely scoured the web and not been able to find any evidence that Tiscali were ever in my exchange. So fingers crossed the Draytek is the last router I'll be buying until my exchange and cabinet are fibre enabled.
And yes, as far as I'm concerned, I have the two important routers now (Broadcom and Infineon based) so should be able to optimise my line (again) as much as possible.

Paul

In terms of pure speed, using the TG585v7, downstream sync of 14295K, attenuation of 36.5dB and SNRM of 4.5dB with a single tone gap between 1889kHz and 1893kHz (tone 438) was achievable on my adsl2+ line but not sustainable.

Yet ~13500K sync, 37dB attenuation and 6dB SNRM is sustainable with up to 14 tone gaps in the higher frequencies and interleaved

That's reasonable and I wouldn't sacrifice stability for speed either, not that I've had any input into that thus far as I've not tweaked SNRM's at all.

As mentioned previously, I've taken a look under the hood of the Speedtouch TG585v8 and as stated by RouterStats, it does indeed have an Infineon CPU. As I can't embed thumbnail images, please follow the links below.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/youngsy/2879c...
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/youngsy/4d1d7...

The Broadcom IC is the LAN controller.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Sat 30-Jun-12 16:57:45)

So I've been migrated today and guess what? After spending £156 on the Draytek 2830n, I'm connected to a Broadcom MSAN. Guess my exchange was infiltrated by Tiscali before TalkTalk took over. Rubbish!

Anyway, I've put the Draytek up for sale (over on the AVForums if anyone is interested ) and have just bought a Billion BiPac 7800N.

I'm using my Netgear DG834Gv3 at the moment as oddly, it's providing the highest sync (10080kbps) currently, of all the routers I've tried. Attenuation is 39dB which is 2dB more than the same router was reporting on ADSL1 so, I expect the Billion to report 37.5dB from past experience. Hopefully my sync will come up too, and then I can start optimising the connection.
Oh and I asked to be on FastPath but, it looks as though I'm on an interleaved data stream. So that needs to be amended.

Paul

Now up to 10462kbps sync after a power cycle at 6am this morning. That gives a throughput of around 9Mbps which is 2Mbps more than I could achieve on my previous ADSL1 connection.

I'm aiming for a solid 10Mbps throughput. If I get there, I'll be happy.

Paul

Paul,

Sorry to hear that the Draytek router was unsuitable - best of luck with the Billion BiPac 7800N though

I find that I get the best downstream results with a pressac nte5 faceplate and a cat5 rj11 adsl (currently a 4.6 metre Belkin) cable also...

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 04-Jul-12 13:48:41)

You win some, you lose some.

Have to admit, the filtered faceplates and decent RJ11 cables work wonders. My current set up includes an ADSLnation XTE2005 faceplate on the master socket in the loft (that is connected directly to the drop line (soldered) via cat5e cable, with a twisted pair per 'leg') and between that and the router is a 50cm Solwise shielded cat5e RJ11 cable. The house is 7 months old and the estate it's on is not much older. So as far as cabling and connectivity go (at least between the router and the cabinet), I couldn't do any more.

I've just got to nuture the connection now I guess and wait for the Billion to arrive. I think I'll do a power cycle again tomorrow morning and then leave it for when the new router arrives. Vivaciti advised that I should contact them 48hrs after migration to get the SNRM set to 6dB's. I'll make sure the set to FastPath at the same time.

Paul

After sending Matt at uno my router stats he advised against FastPath but it will be really interesting to hear how you get on with a 6dB downstream SNRM and FastPath on your Vivaciti SMPF broadcom connection - if you can get the downstream attenuation to 37dB, or just over, then you should achieve a downstream sync of 13Mbps which is what I get interleaved on 37dB and 6dB with uno SMPF/broadcom.

That's interesting. I went to FastPath on the ADSL1 service with great effect. It dropped my average latency to 13ms. That was on a line with a 6dB target SNR and was perfectly stable. Although ADSL2+ is of course more susceptible to noise, I don't think it will be an issue. We'll see I guess.
I used a Billion (7402GLX) previously and that gave an attenuation of 35.5dB when my Sky router showed it as 34dB. The router I'm currently using displayed the attenuation as 37dB on the ADSL1 service and shows it as 39dB on the new ADSL2+ service. So, I'd expect the new Billion to show it as 37.5dB.

I power cycled the router again this morning and it synced at 10926kbps. However, I've just logged into it remotely and it seems to have re-synced an hour or so ago to around 10290kbps. The SNR seems almost static at 6dB so, I hope it's just the router playing silly [censored] and maybe showing up a partial incompatibility with the MSAN.
Ah, I've just resynced it remotely and it's now connected at 11881kbps. That's more like it. I'll monitor it today and see how it behaves.

Paul

11881K @ 39dB and 6dB is excellent

Yeah, that lasted about 4 hours, with lots of errors and the noise margin jumping around all over the place. It's re-synced at 10966kbps now and noise margin appears to be rock solid at 6dB. Curiously, attenuation has dropped to 38dB too. I wonder if 'someone' was doing something in the exchange or cabinet this morning. A couple of houses are very near completion on the estate now so it's feasable.

The Billion also arrived today so, that's configured and ready to go in. I just need to decide whether to do that tonight or put it in first thing tomorrow morning. That will get me the best sync and mean I'm not taking the link down unnecessarily...

Paul

*Edit* Looks like I've been switched over to FastPath. I wonder if that could be the reason for the resync and drop in attenuation?

Could be bursts of noise on the line - I generally have a really good connection but possibly occasional bursts of noise on the line cause lots of errors, hence the advice by Matt to have it interleaved.

Do you have RouterStatsLite running?

*Edit* Looks like I've been switched over to FastPath. I wonder if that could be the reason for the resync and drop in attenuation?

A change of path status from interleaved to fast (or the opposite) will, by necessity, cause a link re-sync.

I have a feeling that the errors were due to the line (and router) not being able to support that sync speed. I could be wrong though.
I do have RouterStatsLite but, it wasn't running at the time.

I've now got the Billion hooked up and unfortunately, it's showing an attenuation of 40dB. It's also onlt syncing at 8554kbps but, I expect that's down to the 8.9dB SNRM. So, I've raised a ticket with Vivaciti to set the target SNR at 6dB.

I'm definitely on FastPath too as a round trip to the BBC now takes 20ms, down from over 40ms.

The saga continues...

Paul

Reckon you'll just let it settle down now that you have the Billion on-line...

BTW. what are your upstream numbers like?

I think so. I just want it to settle down now so I can see how stable it is. I can always fiddle with the SNR at a later date.

With regards to upstream numbers, attenuation has more than doubled with 10dB being reported by the Netgear and 22.6dB being reported by the Billion. I guess it shows how (very) differently they report the figures...
Noise margin is currently 10.7dB (6dB with the Netgear) and it's syncing at 1023kbps. Throughput is static at 870kbps. That's comfortably double what my ADSL1 connection mustered.

I have RouterStatsLite running now and the downstream noise margin has very slowly reduced to 7.0dB. It's also still very slowly dropping.

Paul

Upstream numbers look perfect with the Billion - maybe the Netgear is a little confused by adsl2+ LOL!

Ha ha, yes, I think the Netgear was just confused full stop with the new connection.

Paul

If the Billion works with DMT (?) and you still feel that after a couple of days the downstream sync isn't optimised you may like to check for tone gaps. This is my DMT result done at 11pm this evening (05-07-12): http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8162/7510765556_cb458e...

Yes, DMT does work with the Billion. There's a 'special' version available.

A small update.

Vivaciti kindly lowered my target SNR this morning to 6dB. I checked and the router was sat at 6.1dB. Rather interestingly, attenuation has dropped by 0.5dB on the downstream and it's down to 20.9 on the upstream.
The sync with the 6.1dB SNR was 9915kbps which, is still a little 'slow' according to the various utilities around the web. So, I couldn't resist and dropped the SNR to 66% of original and thats now showing as 4.4 to 4.3dB. Sync has climbed to 10803kbps. Still a little 'slow' but, the resync was at around 10.55am where as in the past, I've seen optimum sync time as between 9am and 10am. I also think I need to give the line a chance to settle and not have a resync every 24 hours or less.
So that's what I'm going to do now. I'll monitor the SNRM and check the errors seen and see how the connection holds up.

Paul

Possibly your previous adsl1 downstream attenuation readings were not 100% accurate nor were they consistent. Maybe 37dB was the correct downstream attenuation with a 6dB SNRM so now a downstream sync of ~10Mbps would look about right with an adsl2+ attenuation of 40dB, a 6dB SNRM and interleaved.

If you can get a better downstream sync by continuing with FastPath, plus reducing the SNRM and the line remains stable that will be great

Just in case anyone is interested, I thought I'd provide a final update.

After some re-configuring of hardware, settings and cabling, I have a perfectly stable sync of 11776kbps using a forced 3.9dB SNRM on a line with 39.5dB of attenuation. One the factors that increased sync rate was switching to an interleaved data stream. That increased sync by around 600kbps. Of course, latency also increased but, it's only at around 37ms now.

The connection's SNRM sits at around 3dB during the say and will drop to and hover around 1.4dB at night. Speed tests show a throughput of around 10Mbps but, I was downloading some video files the other night and they were coming down at about 1380kbps peak which equated to around 11Mbps I believe.

I'm tempted to force the SNRM a little lower to 3.5dB, just to see if the modem holds on. That should give me a sync close to 12Mbps I'd expect too. We'll see how it goes.

So all in all, I'm very impressed with the Billion. It's not the fastest out of the box but, it can be tweaked very easily and is certainly extremely stable. It also has all the functionality most people would ever need.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-Jul-12 11:04:50)

Is it usual to get such a large increase in sync speed when moving from fastpath to interleaved?
Might give it a go if so.

Do you know if Vivaciti have control over different levels of interleaving?

Thanks for the update Paul - great to hear that you have achieved very good results with your setup

If the night time SNRM is currently 1.4dB and you force the SNRM down even further it will be really interesting to hear if the Billion can consistently hold the connection at night - guess having interleaving on will help with that though?

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Is it usual to get such a large increase in sync speed when moving from fastpath to interleaved?

On TalkTalk LLU (direct) i got a sync speed increase of around 0.8 meg when moving from fastpath to interleaved and pings only increased by 10ms (i don't game anymore).

Thanks for still being interested.

I've achieved my 10Mbps throughput which is great and it's certainly way better than the guesstimate Vivacity and TalkTalk gave me. I'm more pleased with the stability though. As it turned out, that was mainly due to wiring which shows how different the ADSL and ADSL2+ technologies are and what they need to work properly.

I don't think the Billion will have any trouble holding onto a connection with an SNR as low as 1dB. I'd expect it to hold on at 0dB realistically. As I've achieved what I set out to do, I'm not going to push it that far. A little further though, I'm more than willing to try.

I'm also tempted to buy one of the router's you're using. They can be had for peanuts now and I'm just interested to see how different my connection would be using one. That's probably the next step.

@gmoorc: It depends on who you talk to whether you gain anything from switching from one to the other. The theory states that there shouldn't be any difference but, from the evidence I gathered around TalkTalk specifically, and from seeing what happened to my line when I switched to FastPath, being on an interleaved data stream will cause a higher sync than on FastPath. For the cost of an email and half a days testing, I gave it a shot and got positive results.

With regards to the level of interleaving, I think they only use the one. There certainly wasn't any question for me when I asked to switch, what level I wanted...

With regards to latency and gaming, with the lag compensation used in a lot of modern game rooms, the person with the lowest latency normally has the worst experience as the compensation is working for the connection with the highest latency. In the grand scheme of things, 17 to 20ms extra latency is nothing, unless you've optimised the rest of your kit.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-Jul-12 14:43:35)

Paul,

If you want PM me your address and I can send you a TG585v7 8.2.6.5 for testing. As you say these days they can be got for peanuts - I've got three of them that were supplied by ISP's and they are not worth putting on ebay. Don't think you can tweak the SNRM with them though?

Hi,

Thanks, that's very generous of you. I've just done some research and you're right, it doesn't appear that the SNR can be tweaked on the v7's, which is something I'd want to do to stress the line. But thanks again anyway.

That being said, there are plenty of alternatives to the TG585v6 that allow SNR tweaking so I'll take a look at them too. I'm particularly looking for the relationship between displayed attenuation and sync rate and how well they hold on to the connection. I'll post up any findings.

Paul

Good luck and all the best with your research, fortunately now you've always got that nice Billion router at hand if and when you need it

This is it. I had my doubts about the Billion in the beginning but, after sorting out the real issue, it's been faultless (touch wood). Now I just need to use to it's full potential.

I just dropped the SNR target to 3.6dB (55% of ISP set target) and the Billion is now syncing at 11976kbps. So, I gained 200kbps from a 0.3dB drop in SNRM. I'll see what the SNRM settles down to tonight and monitor stability. If it's stable, I'll drop it down to 3.5dB and that should net me a 12Mbps sync.

Last night, SNRM was around 1.8dB so either a source of noise disappeared (I replaced an aging SkyHD box last night...) or the router is settling down.

I must say, I'm finding this facinating and it keeps me off the streets afterall.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Thu 19-Jul-12 10:32:53)

I just re-synced the router following a stable evening and am now at 12056kbps. That's after a reduction in the router's target SNR of 3% (now at 52% of the ISP set target). So SNRM is at 3.4dB now. From previous experience, I'd expect that to drop and settle at around 2.7dB by tomorrow morning. I'll monitor the connection and check to make sure it's stable.

Throughout with the 11976kbps sync, using Speedtest.net was 10250kbps. I doubt that will change much with the new sync rate.

That's it as far as tweaking to get a higher sync rate I think. I'll just try and minimise the lowering of the SNRM in the evening now. Although, I'm not sure what else I can do to achieve that...

Paul

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

I can confirm that all TalkTalk lines, of which I have had experience, are connected to DSLAMs/MSANs with an Infineon chipset.

Bit late to this but my exchange has just been upgraded and the 2-Wire reports it as ITFN - I assume that is Infineon? I'm on a BT based service, so it isn't just TT who use Infineon based kit.

One other point. Didn't Texas Instruments sell their modem chip division to Infineon?

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

I can confirm that all TalkTalk lines, of which I have had experience, are connected to DSLAMs/MSANs with an Infineon chipset.

Bit late to this but my exchange has just been upgraded and the 2-Wire reports it as ITFN - I assume that is Infineon? I'm on a BT based service, so it isn't just TT who use Infineon based kit.?

?
A BT based "What?" service? Broadband, phone or both?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

I can confirm that all TalkTalk lines, of which I have had experience, are connected to DSLAMs/MSANs with an Infineon chipset.

Bit late to this but my exchange has just been upgraded and the 2-Wire reports it as ITFN - I assume that is Infineon? I'm on a BT based service, so it isn't just TT who use Infineon based kit.?

?
A BT based "What?" service? Broadband, phone or both?

I think he is referring to Broadband! It will have Huawei MASN (Multi-Service Access Node) using Infineon chipset at the BT exchange.

21CN introduced the concept of the Multi-Service Access Node (MSAN) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Service_Access_Node

My 2Wire 2700HGV router status reporting Vendor IFTN (Infineon chipset) on BT WBC 21CN.

View Broadband Link Details
DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11025 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1160 kbps
Channel: Fast
Current Noise Margin: 8.8 dB (Downstream), 6.6 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.2 dB (Downstream), 15.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.6 dBm (Downstream), 12.4 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}

http://www.fmn.uk.net/news/21cn-whats-it-all-about

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A BT based "What?" service? Broadband, phone or both?

Broadband, as I would have thought was obvious from the post......

Thanks that's exactly what I wanted to know and confirms what I thought. Following the exchange upgrade, I'm on the same as you - BT WBC 21CN, although I'm currently using G-DMT.

Incidentally didn't Infineon buy up Texas Instruments chip division? This would mean the AR7 is currently manufactured by Infineon.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Incidentally didn't Infineon buy up Texas Instruments chip division? This would mean the AR7 is currently manufactured by Infineon.

I believe there is some connection . . . but I can't find a reference to it, at the moment.

Infineon
Lantiq

Perhaps they didn't buy them up, possibly Infineon manufacture the AR7 under licence. Dunno.....

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A BT based "What?" service? Broadband, phone or both?

Broadband, as I would have thought was obvious from the post......

I misread your post . 'Doh!

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Thanks that's exactly what I wanted to know and confirms what I thought. Following the exchange upgrade, I'm on the same as you - BT WBC 21CN, although I'm currently using G-DMT.

Incidentally didn't Infineon buy up Texas Instruments chip division? This would mean the AR7 is currently manufactured by Infineon.

Yes! Texas Instruments inc. DSL chip manufacturing unit was bought by the German semiconductor manufacturer Infineon Technologies in 2007 and I did not realise Siemens is the parent company of Infineon.

Texas Instruments inc. DSL chip manufacturing unit bought by Infineon http://www.pcworld.com/article/133404/infineon_buys_...

Infineon launch in 1999 Siemens is the parent company of Infineon http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/14/01/2000...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infineon_Technologies

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-12 09:49:44)

Interesting! I too didn't realise that Infineon is owned by Siemens. Thanks for the info