In reply to a post by BatBoy:

There's a thread here which looks promising http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/entanet/f/4228745-v...

It appears the ISP may be able to suggest a good modem/router.

it's a pity that thread stops short of many recommendations but I'll ask them if they can recommend one too

In reply to a post by MUD_Wizard:

The alternative is to get just an ethernet modem (for cheap) to run the internet service and then buy your own wireless router to run your wireless network. The wireless router is usually the more expensive part of the package anyway.

Then when you change your ISP you can take your wireless router with you no matter whether it's cable (which requires a cable modem) or fibre.
Be aware that some providers still own the equipment that you pay to be installed/delivered.

Wow, thanks for the mega post!

From what you said it sounds like ethernet modem + router is definitely preferable. is there any change in performance or anything if I do this compared to having a combo router? as in, does having an 'extra link' reduce performance compared to having it all in one unit?

I would recommend checking out what alternative ISP's you have in your exchange:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Here's an example of mine: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WSLAN

Also you can check which cabinet number you're on (or not) from here:
https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/ADSLChecker.A...

Ah I think I've already settled on Aquiss. There's no fibre or cable available to my postcode and I'm on a line directly to the exchange, not to cabinet, so that kinda sucks for future fibre

Your smartphones and tablet may do 5ghz band. They'll certainly be 802.11n. So I'd recommend at least an N class wireless router to match the performance of your devices. 802.11g is much slower (54mbps) but you could end up with 1mb-20mb/s performance out of that, due to communication overhead and inteference.

Also because you're going to be using a few devices simultaneously, even though your internet may be only 20mb/s, in order to make it work well it's good to have a little more juice for transfer around your local network.

You might decide to download movies onto a USB hard-drive that's connected to the back of your wireless router. Then anybody can stream those movies over the wireless network, as long as your router has streaming capability.

For this reason I'd recommend a simultaneous dual-band router. Dual-band means it can do 2.4ghz band and 5ghz band. Simultaneous means it has two radios and can do both at the same time. Which means people can be web browsing on 2.4ghz and others streaming on 5ghz band with no slow-down.

5ghz is also recommended in close city areas, particularly in flats because most of your neighbours will be using 2.4ghz band. That means there's going to be lots of inteference on that band to slow you down. Maybe making your games lag, your videos jerky and slow down web browsing.

These are just some suggestions to make you aware. You could probably get away with a lot less if you were on a budget.

The Asus RT-N66U is probably 5x peformance and features wise what you need for a 20mb/s ADSL service, but it pays to plan ahead. The weak link can often be someones poor choice of wireless router, even though their ISP performance is ok.

The Netgear R6300 is the generation beyond that, so more than I even need right now.

You could just get the ISP's hub and be happy. It's really up to you how far you want to push the wireless technology and what you're satisfied with performance wise.

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

In reply to a post by nish81:

Wow! sounds good. Well with my desktop it would be an Ethernet connection, so I guess the 802.11n/etc thing doesn't apply to that right.

Sure. You can get a USB wifi adapter that plugs into either your laptop or your desktop if you want.

My laptop will be the sony vaio pro 13 (once I get it delivered in a couple of weeks!) which is 802.11n if I'm right, although I'm not sure whether it's dual band or not.

Looks like a good ultra-book from the spec. 802.11n wifi but doesn't say about dual-band. Maybe but probably not dual-band.

If you need a dual-band USB adapter:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-USB-N53-Wireless-Dongle...

like I mentioned above, my connection will only be 20Mbps ADSL to start, but if fibre does become available for me I'd upgrade in a heartbeat.

Yeah, they're also trialing "vectoring" (noise cancelling technology) for VDSL2 which will improve FTTC (fibre) speeds up to 200mb/s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkVmej4urx4

Thanks - I'll check out the reviews, but if getting it from the german amazon is a bad idea then I have to pay £130ish for it, in which case it's probably not ideal for me.

I really think almost no-one needs an 802.11ac router right now. Mainly because most of the other technology (phones, consoles, tablets etc) don't support ac. They can only use the 802.11n speeds that they support. The standard is still in draft, it's that new.

Also I'll be living in a 2bed flat which isn't really that big, and the main heavy use of the internet (where really fast speeds are needed) will be over ethernet on my desktop. on all other devices, having like 8Mbps would be more than enough. so I don't know if I need the power of this router now!

That's fair enough. What you mainly get in the higher end routers apart from speed is extra features (like multimedia, USB ports etc) and options for doing anything you want with it.

Here's a router with most of the features you might want in a flat:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006B3BM9I/ref=ox...

It's not simultaneous dual-band though. It only has one radio. So you need to turn off the 2.4ghz wifi to turn on the 5ghz wifi. Just switch bands. Instead of having two wifi networks.

Compare with the features for the Asus and see if you miss any:
http://uk.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Routers/RTN66U/

Most high-end routers have gigabit ports for ethernet, so as long as your computer has a gigabit network card (10/100/1000) you'll have no problems there. Just make sure your cable is at least cat5e or cat6, so that it supports gigabit speeds.

Ah I see, just saw this bit, then yeah I'm not sure this one is for me, seems a bit too high end.

Gigabit ports are a must these days. You don't want to have to re-buy all your equipment in a couple of years.

In reply to a post by nish81:

Wow, thanks for the mega post!

From what you said it sounds like ethernet modem + router is definitely preferable. is there any change in performance or anything if I do this compared to having a combo router? as in, does having an 'extra link' reduce performance compared to having it all in one unit?

You're welcome. No, it's often better to have two separate devices (unless they don't like each other). Single units (hubs, combo routers etc) often share some CPU power, which means when you stress them they may not perform as well as two separate units. Really depends on the hardware though.

Ah I think I've already settled on Aquiss. There's no fibre or cable available to my postcode and I'm on a line directly to the exchange, not to cabinet, so that kinda sucks for future fibre

4G USB modem plugged into the back of your Asus. They're already rolling out 50mb/s and soon up to 100mb/s. You can get unlimited data on Three.

You can still get FTTP even if you're not on an FTTC cabinet but obviously that's hugely expensive at the moment: https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Products/Br...

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

Yeah the Asus will probably future proof you for about 5 years. It will work with anything with an ethernet port. So yes fibre, cable etc. If you were able to upgrade to fibre on Aquiss they'd give you a VDSL modem. You just plug that into the wall and plug your Asus into the modem and you're good to go. Theoretically. lol.

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

ADSL modems have been around for quite a long time, so the technology is pretty sound even if the model is cheap.
I'd ask Aquiss or post on their forums if I were you to see what they and their users recommend.

Note: Aquiss recommend a modem that supports ADSL2+ Annex M if you're going for the 2.2mbps upload (option 3 or 4) in order to get the performance:
http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Especially as I'd have thought you would have known that Aquiss aren't on the tbb (limited) list of providers for rating .

I wasn't (and I'm still not) so sure about that.

Certainly, as resellers, they don't get a separate entry on the Broadband Providers page but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not detected (by IP range) on the Rate your provider one.

As I generally prefer not to state "facts" unless I can back them up I phrased my post carefully, and it is accurate- if they're not detected, zero ratings is not enough


eta: The position is further complicated by the fact that some providers who are included on the list can also supply connectivity via companies other than BT if available at the exchange (eg TalkTalk, Be/O2) and are hence also acting as resellers...

Edited by billford (Wed 03-Jul-13 09:04:21)

Nish,

I will give you a call mid-morning with some advice on a router/modem (the units we recommend are combined into one).

Once you've talked to your ISP and decided on your wireless router. Then comes the hard part. Getting the ADSL Ethernet Modem to talk to your ISP and your wireless router.

For cable it's just plugin and off we go. ADSL is not quite as easy.

I said you just connect the wireless router or computer to the Ethernet port of the modem and it all just works. Well, not quite. For some modems with easy setup wizards that might be true. Others can be a little more tricky. Then there's the router settings.

PPPoA/PPPoE/Bridged mode:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/hardware/reviews/4-lin...

Btw, that article is probably a bit old.

Anyway, your ISP should be able to help you with the setup of your modem.

Going for bridged mode would be simplest initially and then PPPoE later.

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jul-13 07:14:07)

In reply to a post by nish81:

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

unfortunately I can't reply properly atm as I have to dash but thanks for the advice everyone, I will reply later!

In reply to a post by rhetherington:

In reply to a post by nish81:

thanks for the explanation! I think I'm gonna go with the asus then. it is a pretty condensed apartment block so the strong signal can't hurt, and i'd like to buy something I can use in the future too. I'm assuming, based on your earlier comment, that I could use the n66u with fibre/cable later on too right?

does there tend to be a big quality difference between ADSL modems that I might buy off amazon? or is it just a case of finding one that has a lot of decent reviews and they all pretty much do the same job?

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

wow, thanks! I've PMed you my address, let me know if I can recompense you in any way or anything, the model you specified looks like a pretty good one

The N66U will work great with FTTC or Cable in the future (although it won't max out a FTTP connection).

Now that i'm on FTTC i have a Draytek Vigor 120 ADSL modem lying around that i won't be using again. PM me your address and i can pop it in the post for you tomorrow.

It'll work plug 'n' play with the RT-N66U. Just connect the modem to the phone line, connect an ethernet cable from the modem to the router and use PPPoE in the router with the username/password Aquiss supplies to you.

wow, thanks! I've PMed you my address, let me know if I can recompense you in any way or anything, the model you specified looks like a pretty good one

Yes, the Draytek Vigor 120 would be an excellent choice! It provides a PPPoA connection on the ISP side and PPPoE which your computer and router talk:
http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor120.html

So none of the overheads of connecting via PPPoE to your ISP.

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jul-13 17:15:31)