OR rollout doc 7 Jan 2011

BT Wholesale for my exchange has ceased to mention FTTC, as of late December, Infinity checker says not due for rollout, again as of late December, where both used to have Dec 2010.

The cabinet has its cooling system running and wires from the old cabinet connected.

Another forum member has just posted a link to the document in the Subject. It shows my exchange as March 2011. (Ignore the fact the poster may be discussing ADSL2+, the document is FTTC dates).

Maybe it will help others as well as me.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 10-Jan-11 21:28:56)

The document, although dated 7th January 2011, may not be up to date. It gives my exchange as March 2011, but as I posted earlier, it is available NOW.

Good point.

But what utter chaos!

I just noticed my typo in the Subject as well. I even considered leaving it there, as referring to the new "stick a pin in a map" rollout strategy.

Anyone have any idea who is subsiding Edinburgh, Manchester and Liverpool's FTTP?

I'm trying to work out why Edinburgh is getting twice as many FTTP exchanges as London despite having 1/15th of the population in a lower density urban conurbation.

Population (2009)
- Total 477,660
- Urban density 4,776/sq mi (1,844/km2)

Population (July 2007 est.)[2][3][4]
- London 7,556,900
- Density 12,450/sq mi (4,807/km2)

Either subsidy or cynicism!

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Jan-11 21:46:18)

Perhaps many of London's are already enabled, and wouldn't be on that list.

No sign of my exchange. Harrumph!

Just need to confirm the install date first thing tomorrow - and decide if I want 2Mb or 10Mb upstream to complement the 32Mb or more downstream.

maybe there is some balance of investment. if it was based on population scotland as a whole would be far down the line which could maybe be considered as unfair.

you can imagine the political mess if english cities got priority due to higher populations.

also there are only so many engineers, maybe edinburgh is next on the hitlist for scottish folks, so isnt really getting priority, its simply the focus for the engineers in the area.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Perhaps many of London's are already enabled, and wouldn't be on that list.

No sign of my exchange. Harrumph!

The list shows everything enabled and planned.

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

maybe there is some balance of investment. if it was based on population scotland as a whole would be far down the line which could maybe be considered as unfair.

you can imagine the political mess if english cities got priority due to higher populations.

also there are only so many engineers, maybe edinburgh is next on the hitlist for scottish folks, so isnt really getting priority, its simply the focus for the engineers in the area.

I'm talking about proportions of FTTP exchanges here. Actually Manchester and Liverpool also are getting more FTTP proportionately than London so it's not an Scotland - England thing. London is by every measure getting the shaft as far as FTTP goes which makes zero sense given it should be the most economically viable place to do the work due precisely to that higher population density.

It's a bit odd, however saying that it's perfectly possible that a single new estate going up and getting FTTP is enough for BT to happily call an exchange FTTC/P so it's quite possible that these relate to greenfield FTTP sites.

not everything has to start in london. people suprisingly do live outside the M25 ring.

My choice would be 10mbps

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Perhaps many of London's are already enabled, and wouldn't be on that list.

No sign of my exchange. Harrumph!

The list shows everything enabled and planned.

But NOT correct on dates so how can you say everything?

utter chaos is correct as I've said before I don't think any1 in BT can give you a correct answer.
Case in point :- My Exchange date has been all over the place, it went from Dec 2010 to Mar 2011 then June 2011 then Dec 2011, and like you RobertoS all the new DSLAM around me are humming away.
I did a check y'day on my dads line and it told me he can have FTTC NOW. Ok I tho if he can have it why not me as he's on the same Exchange, so ring Infinity sales team and was told that my exchange date has been pushed back to a time in the future and so no date can be given to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Went on to tell the person about the cables, new cabs installed Etc, nope I'm wrong, mmmmmmmmmmmm ok I give my dad's number and am told that yes an order can be placed as his exchange is now up and running with Fibre, Great can I place an order then please, No sorry your Dad pays the bill he will have to do it, thats ok can I place an order for myself please, umm no sorry I've just told you about your exchange, mmm ok can you please tell me why my dad can order Fibre and I can't????? as we are on the same the exchange, Now the BEST PART.
No you are not on the same Exchange you are Llantrisant 2 and your Dad is on Llantrisant 1, Right so the Exchange is spilt in 2 then, No they are different Exchanges in different place's 1 is off Cowbridge Road and the other is near Mwyndy Junction.
Right I said thanks alot bye now.
UTTER CHAOS is true as there is only 1 Exchange, so I've given up on ever getting FTTC.
Cheers

I did a check y'day on my dads line and it told me he can have FTTC NOW. Ok I tho if he can have it why not me as he's on the same Exchange

Because BTOR enable certain cabinets before others, they may well come back to the area and do more. An exchange might be only a few miles away from an enabled area, but it doesn't mean that exchange will be covered with FTTC also

Can't explain why they might think there is a 2nd exchange (unless its a concentrator).
However, FTTC needs to be available at both the exchange and your cabinet.

I'm in the same boat - our exchange is live, but out cabinet isn't yet. More annoyingly, all the surrounding cabinets are live, including one that is closer to me (as the crow flies) than the one that actually serves us.

The rollout document only details the exchange level, and not the cabinet level - and not all cabinets on an exchange will get FTTC.

makes sense when you consider many companies in london may be buying more lucrative products than FTTP? I think this is a revenue protection policy.

Although I think you will disagree with me on this but what we will probably agree on is that the rollout raises a lot of ?'s as it certianly has much mystery to it as to how they determine viability.

That is absolutely true. There is no logic to why some cabinets are enabled for FTTC in the exchange area and some arent, its case of... you may get fibre and your neighbour may not!

Don't think it was a contractor I rung ( 0800 525 775 ).
Away I understand about Cabs being connected up at different times.
Again I can't understand that people working for BT sales think there are 2 Exchanges, there is only 1 and it was opened in 1928.
Just back from my dad's and had him to ring the number above and told them I could deal with it for him, So started to order it ( He's 85 and does not what it, he's happy with what he's got) and after a few minutes was told hang on my dads cab is not ready yet but will be very very soon, also the other Cab's for FTTC from the exchange also, so in 2 days get told different information. As luck would have it on my way home BTOR Eng's where at my new DSLAM Cab, so stopped and asked them when and again was told very very shortly, only a few small things to complete, Also told them about my chat to the sales team, they were laffing and said what idiots.
Again as a big company I'm just amazed that no 1 seems to be able to answer question's from us and giving different replies.
cheers

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Can't explain why they might think there is a 2nd exchange (unless its a concentrator).
However, FTTC needs to be available at both the exchange and your cabinet.

I'm in the same boat - our exchange is live, but out cabinet isn't yet. More annoyingly, all the surrounding cabinets are live, including one that is closer to me (as the crow flies) than the one that actually serves us.

The rollout document only details the exchange level, and not the cabinet level - and not all cabinets on an exchange will get FTTC.

an exchange can have fttc within its boundaries but it wont necessarily be the headend for that cabinet.not all exchanges are termination points for the fttc cabinets within its boundaries, thats not how the network is constructed

Might be a radio station or UAX exchange there, their different to TRS sites

the population density in an area (if you pick your area) is probably the same in London as any other city. I would imagine the regulatory BS in London is at least knee deep, which may be a factor.

I see Holmfirth has the /P designator - Last of the Summer Whine ?

In reply to a post by krazykizza:

not everything has to start in london. people suprisingly do live outside the M25 ring.

Yes the usual line. Thanks for that but I'm quite aware of this being a relatively recent resident of London.

It doesn't change that London has the highest concentration of people anywhere in the UK, some of the most affluent parts of the UK and is, according to the various research, the most viable place to deploy FTTP with the lowest cost per home passed.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Perhaps many of London's are already enabled, and wouldn't be on that list.

No sign of my exchange. Harrumph!

The list shows everything enabled and planned.

But NOT correct on dates so how can you say everything?

I didn't say anything about the accuracy of the data merely that it's there which is perfectly accurate.

If you read the post I quoted you'll get the idea what I was responding to.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

the population density in an area (if you pick your area) is probably the same in London as any other city. I would imagine the regulatory BS in London is at least knee deep, which may be a factor.

I would imagine if you carefully pick areas you'd get similar values though London as a city is more populous than any other city per sq KM.

The regulatory stuff sounds a more plausible excuse though, I'm not sure whether this was considered within the BSG research that gave a considerably lower cost per home passed than pretty much anywhere else.

I've a suspicion though that it's purely for commercial reasons, getting the lower cost and quality product out for the sake of achieving the declared targets. Easiest place to get over 10% of the population done in a nice block where exchanges can be neatly merged with others and multiple exchanges terminated at others essentially consolidating the network.

Kensington and Chelsea would be a good case study, very high population density and plenty of money (including the £25k housing benefit recipients)

Ah!
BTW as of some time today now says Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 31st January 2011. Infinity checker gives the same date.

Mine is still saying 31st March after being moved from 31st Dec '10. At least the FTTC Cab is there now, it was placed on Monday (10th), so its probably not been connected up yet.

There is only one exchange at Llantrisant they must have been talking about cabs or out of their rear....

At least they've updated the info for Highams Park now. The last version of the doc still said Sept 2010, whereas at last check with Dave @ PlusNet, the trial wasn't due to start until at least early December 2010

Now says "Accepting CP orders now"
There was a load of digging along the road which runs horizontal to mine this morning ( I know the fibre runs along here), so think there may be some investigation needed over the weekend

Edit: Just been for a quick walk albeit in the dark. All the evidence left now of any digging is new patches of tarmac about every 100 yards in the middle of the road. I also noticed the cab across the road from me near the pole has disappeared and there is a double manhole in it's place right next to the pole. I still also have a cab at the end of my road on my side backing on to the end-of-terrace house there - no markings on this one whatsoever from what I can see, so could be a VM cab.


The cab disappearing could be why my sync has been a bit higher than of late, but I've no idea when the cab went

OR engineer had previously told me I am connected to the cab to the right of the pole across the road

Edited by nredwood (Fri 14-Jan-11 22:02:54)

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

I'm trying to work out why Edinburgh is getting twice as many FTTP exchanges as London despite having 1/15th of the population in a lower density urban conurbation.

I'm trying to work out where you got your numbers from.

If they were from this (updated 12/01/2011), there are 3 x exchanges in Edinburgh (City of - there is no Greater Edinburgh conurbation) and 4 x exchanges in London (G.L.A. area - not just the City of).

EDINBURGH FOUNTAINBRIDGE ESFOU FTTC/P Lothian Dec 2011
EDINBURGH NEWINGTON ESNEW FTTC/P Lothian Sep 2011
EDINBURGH WAVERLEY ESWAV FTTC/P Lothian Dec 2011

FOREST HILL LSFOR FTTC/P Greater London Jun 2011
HIGHAMS PARK LNHPK FTTP Greater London Accepting CP orders now.
LEYTONSTONE LNLEY FTTC/P Greater London Mar 2011
MAYFAIR WEWMAY FTTC/P Greater London Mar 2012 (added since 07/01/2011)

The 3 x Edinburgh exchanges are all city centre locations as is Mayfair (I've walked/driven past that exchange a million times and didn't realise it was there - even when there was a BT van stuffed in the entrance. 0 out of 10 for observation!).

A more appropriate question related to that document would be;

Why does the London Borough of Waltham Forest get 1 x FTTC/P + 1 x FTTP (1 x FTTP has to be worth 2 x FTTP/C) exchanges, when it's in the top 10% of the most deprived local authorities in England (Lewisham's in the top 20%...)?

As has been suggested elsewhere, if the FTTP roll-out was based purely on population density, The Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea would be full FTTP already.

There's no FTTP on that list for RBKC!

The problem with London is down to planning permission.

Harringay was one of the first places to get FTTC and yet the council bitched and whined over the size and location of the cabs BT had to come back and spend even more money relocating them.

St Albans just to the north of London was even worse with the locals there kicking off and trying to get a national campaign going to stop BT rolling out fibre.

I expect BT would love to go into Kensington and Chelsea but I wonder if the council and locals would be very snobby indeed.

I expect Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh concils even though they are a lot smaller only have one city council to work with who seems to be very happy with getting fibre and will let BT do more.

Thats the problem with London although it is very big it also has an awful lot of councils to deal with when you want to do something across the board there.

High concentration in LBWF may have something to do with a rather large event coming in 2012