Infinity Data Kit

Can someone confirm exactly what the 'Data Kit' element of the Infinity install is? Is it CAT5 from Homehub to PC or an extension from master socket?

It's a hardwired extension up to 30metres from the existing master socket to a dedicated VDSL socket. I expect it is standard CW1308 but not sure.

Tea and biscuits can produce a move of the master socket instead.

Oh - it's nothing to do with Infinity. It's a standard facility for and Openreach FTTC installation. There are other suppliers.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 08-Feb-11 13:53:55)

Thanks. I understood that the kit is provided by OR on all install's not just Infinity, just wasnt sure what was actually being provided.

It's a hardwired extension

it plugs in the front surely ? RJ45 Cat5 extension.

"If as part of its Order installation details the Communications Provider requests provision of the GEA-FTTC Home Wiring Solution, the BT engineer, on agreement with the End User, will provide either:
(a) an internal data extension kit: or
(b) an external data extension kit
as further described in the Handbook. Alternatively, the BT engineer may, at BT�s discretion, relocate the End User�s current NTP provided that it is up to a maximum of one hour�s work from the time the BT engineer commences work on arrival at the Site and is undertaken to the extent necessary for engineering and safety reasons."

Edited by yarwell (Tue 08-Feb-11 18:18:00)

In reply to a post by nelix01:

Thanks. I understood that the kit is provided by OR on all install's not just Infinity, just wasnt sure what was actually being provided.

When I got a BT engineer install of the original ADSL probably 10 years ago they fitted the standard two port ADSL faceplate on the master socket downstairs. They then ran an extension cable from there up to an ADSL only port in the computer room upstairs.

I'm hoping the new VDSL signal will go over the same piece of wire when it gets fitted next week.

Hi Yarwell, do yu have a link to that info on the Openreach Website?

link in my other post about simultaneous provide

http://www.btwholesale.com/pages/downloads/Products/...

the Wholesale info suggests that the data kit can be pre-ordered, an on site decision or prevented by the ordering CP.

From what I have been reading, the data kits currently free of charge as part of the Openreach GEA-FTTC provision. Just interested to know the specs of what is being supplied.

it is free / inclusive but ISPs can opt out. You need the product manual or the relevant SIN for spec of data extension kit, or wait for a BT guy to pop up here.

The previous one for ADSL is detailed at http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/adsl_extensions.html I expect it's the same.

Phil,

I was thinking that it would be CAT5 that would be used. Just need an Eng to confirm

it is cat 5 but it's on the phone line side of the VDSL modem they don't run an ethernet extension from the modem to your router.

It is the same one. I know that it is not always possible, but if the modem can be placed close to the master socket, and cat5 run from it to the router, that would be much better.

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Feb-11 19:12:00)

I had my installation yesterday, the engineer used cat5 cable from the modified faceplate to the rj11 socket.

It wasnt a BT infinity installation, standard FTTC connection via entanet

It is the same one. I know that it is not always possible, but if the modem can be placed close to the master socket, and cat5 run from it to the router, that would be much better.

So is it plug-in, and I'm wrong, or hard wired?

If plug-in, loose cable or pinned to the surroundings?

It plugs into the RJ45 (it has a RJ45 plug) and is run to where the RJ11 socket is required, around woodwork and clipped, or it can be run externaly if preferred.
My own view is that if you have a mains socket close to the master and can site the modem there, then it is much better to run your own network cable from there to the router.

My personal view is that they should be avoided if at all possible. In a modern home where all wiring may be set in the wall they look very out of place.

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Feb-11 10:11:01)

If you ever get hold of one, keep the cable or any surplus. It is 3 pair Cat5e which is ideal for RJ11 & RJ12 connectors and to make short twisted pair cables to connect modem and router.

A I mention above and Yarwell has commented, it is Cat5e but only 3 pair. I have several of them here.

In reply to a post by nelix01:

Thanks. I understood that the kit is provided by OR on all install's not just Infinity, just wasnt sure what was actually being provided.

Seems I got it slightly wrong . Not hard wired, though it seems daft to me that it isn't. See this post.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by nelix01:

Thanks. I understood that the kit is provided by OR on all install's not just Infinity, just wasnt sure what was actually being provided.

Seems I got it slightly wrong . Not hard wired, though it seems daft to me that it isn't. See this post.

I can see why you would think that, but the idea was/is that the end user can disconnect the extension if there is a problem with it, and because the faceplate does not have to be removed, they can be talked through this over the phone. Original BT adsl plates and vdsl plates don't have provision for hard wired dsl extensions.

seen a new batch of vdsl plates they now have a 2 pin krone tag on the top left inner portion - suspect it is to clone a and b for unfiltered extension, although provision of the rj11 plug is preferable for faulting.

In reply to a post by systemx:

I can see why you would think that, but the idea was/is that the end user can disconnect the extension if there is a problem with it, and because the faceplate does not have to be removed, they can be talked through this over the phone.

I did think of that, but the same argument could be applied in reverse to the standard NTE5A.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by systemx:

I can see why you would think that, but the idea was/is that the end user can disconnect the extension if there is a problem with it, and because the faceplate does not have to be removed, they can be talked through this over the phone.

I did think of that, but the same argument could be applied in reverse to the standard NTE5A.

Well I did say that was the idea, not how viable it is, or even if someone would be preparied to do it while on the phone to tech support!!.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

seen a new batch of vdsl plates they now have a 2 pin krone tag on the top left inner portion - suspect it is to clone a and b for unfiltered extension, although provision of the rj11 plug is preferable for faulting.

Yes I saw one on the Pressic site while looking for some info about the VDSL plate. You are right they are for an unfiltered extension. http://www.presscomm.co.uk/pdf/Pressac_Brochure_AW.pdf

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Feb-11 14:23:28)

If one were to hardwire the data extension socket, using a roll of cat 5, to the terminations in the top left corner, then removing the filter plate would allow telephony, if the fttc was faulty.

Aren't we in a BT strategy loop here?

We have now reached the point in this discussion where the VDSL plate has become a total no-no for practical and aesthetic purposes.

Maybe Openreach should just bulk-buy XTE-2005s or equivalents and stop trying to have its own-specified kit for things like this.

It will be coming up with a VDSL router next! Or maybe a phone handset.

XTE-2005 and the like just followed BT's lead with the ADSL SSFP. Why is the VDSL plate impractical ? The engineer install includes relocating the master socket if required. We see every day on here the sort of hash people make of phone extensions so the VDSL signal is best isolated from that.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

XTE-2005 and the like just followed BT's lead with the ADSL SSFP. Why is the VDSL plate impractical ? The engineer install includes relocating the master socket if required. We see every day on here the sort of hash people make of phone extensions so the VDSL signal is best isolated from that.

I agree, and not just for VDSL. We can see from Ian Stirling's post (page 1 entry 6) how DSL should be delt with, and in his case all that will happen is a faceplate swap to keep the ISP happy.

Openreach FTTC supply a cheap NTE5 filtered faceplate, which lacks back connectors for fixed ADSL data wiring. It only has back IDC connectors for extension voice wiring.
A BT/Openreach FTTC engineer probably wouldn't have time to connect wiring from the back of the NTE5 to a remote ADSL RJ11 socket. Anyway those wires would then belong to BT/Openreach - negating the NTE5 definition of the BT/User boundary. Duh!

Do some site preparation yourself. The filter stops ADSL signals interfering with voice calls. Wires to ADSL/VDSL modems are not filtered.

Many suppliers offer NTE5 compatible faceplates with back connectors for both voice and data. Try Google or
Solwise ADSL Faceplates

An Austin Taylor filtered faceplate and 10m of CAT5E cable has worked fine here. One twisted pair for data; a separate twisted pair (and a half) for voice (and bell).
The FTTC engineer was happy to leave well alone and connect the Openreach VDSL modem into an existing remote RJ11 socket. He had three more FTTC installs before lunch.

In reply to a post by MJEdmunds:

...The filter stops ADSL signals interfering with voice calls.

You are not alone with that train of thought. It's a very popular misconception.

What you have stated is a secondary function of the filter's design, if it's a well designed filter such as these.

It's primary function is the reverse of what you state - the filter actually prevents ye olde telephony equipment (bell ringers, burglar alarms, sky boxes, handsets and a plethora of other bits and pieces) from killing the ADSL signal.

Beartrap set!

The later VDSL face plates allow for either, plugged in the front, or hardwired inside.

It's an unsightly piece of cable, and I'd rather find 'other' ways of doing things, but they cannot always be avoided.

its an internal cat 5 cable , prewired with a plug at one end and bare cable at the other , the engineer fits an adsl only socket on this end , there does not appear to be an external quality cat 5 cable available for this type of install so engineers have the option to move the main socket to a suitable location

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

I'm hoping the new VDSL signal will go over the same piece of wire when it gets fitted next week.

Well I had Infinity connected yesterday and it was not quite how I expected it to go. The two engineers that came used the cable between my master socket and the ADSL socket but not quite in the way I imagined.

They replaced the ADSL only socket upstairs with a new master socket using the old ADSL cable as the link. Downstairs they replaced the old master socket with some other new Openreach branded socket.

So now what happens is the combined signal comes into the house downstairs via the old master, goes upstairs via the old ADSL cable to the new master socket. At this point the VDSL signal is split off and goes to the Openreach modem and the voice signal goes back downstairs on another pair of wires back to the old master socket from which it is then split out to the two BT fitted extension sockets we have.

My master socket is in the hallway downstairs and no power sockets near it and my pc is upstairs
so can i put both modem and router upstairs using power sockets in the bedroom
i am still confused with this data extension cable is it just for the router from master socket to pc or for the modem from master socket to pc

cheers

This is basically what I have except the old ADSL only socket on the end of my original ADSL extension cable became my new master socket. The old master socket just became a single phone socket. In my bedroom I now have a combined VDSL/Phone master socket. The phone socket is actually unused as my DECT phone setup is driven from one of the other phone extension sockets downstairs. My Openreach VDSL model connects to the wall socket by using a cable approx 1m long. Then there is another 1m CAT5 cable between the VDSL Modem and the HH3, despite the fact that one sits on the other. Both devices are in the bedroom and powered from a large 12 socket extension lead.

Effectively I don't have a data extension anymore, but the old ADSL extension is now an integral part of the wiring

I just read that bt retail will now charge customers if they need the data extension kit
dam i would have went with bt but i would say it will cost a lot the data kit

In reply to a post by Johnct:

I just read that bt retail will now charge customers if they need the data extension kit
dam i would have went with bt but i would say it will cost a lot the data kit

It doesn't matter who you go with - BT currently do all fibre broadband installations even when you get your service from another ISP. If they are going to charge for the extension kit you will end up paying for it one way or the other.

Where did you read that by the way ?

thats wrong and should not have been done like that. you cannot backwire extensions back down another pair in the same cable

it was on the bt website and they have changed the packages they offer maybe they trying to claw back bit of money !

if i happen to find the link again i will put it up

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

In reply to a post by Johnct:

I just read that bt retail will now charge customers if they need the data extension kit
dam i would have went with bt but i would say it will cost a lot the data kit

It doesn't matter who you go with - BT currently do all fibre broadband installations even when you get your service from another ISP. If they are going to charge for the extension kit you will end up paying for it one way or the other.

Where did you read that by the way ?

Uh uh!

BT Openreach do the installations and supply the extension kit. Perhaps this is charged as an extra to the ISP concerned, I haven't checked, but whether or not this is charged to the end user would be up to the ISP.

You seem to be forgetting that BT Retail is nothing to do with other ISPs. BT Retail do not do the installations and the other ISPs are not reselling the BT Retail services.

Excuse my ignorance once again but does moving the faceplate socket to another part of my flat count as an extension ?


Steve

Edited by stevepressman (Fri 18-Mar-11 01:38:24)

In reply to a post by stevepressman:

... does moving the faceplate socket to another part of my flat count as an extension ?

No. It is a move of the master socket. That is usually chargeable, but the special circumstances of FTTC installation seem to have got that relaxed at the moment so it can be free.

The data extension kit is a special extension from the existing master, with the new (V)DSL faceplate being at the existing master.

The Data Kit is an Openreach product that ISP's can choose have as part of their install process. According to the Openreach Website, this is currently free of charge to all ISP's until 30th June 2011.

Openreach Pricing

OK thanks for the info, looks like I am going to get it installed on the 24th March in the afternoon so I am keeping my fingers crossed.


Steve

We add the extension kit to all orders by default so the engineer should do this for you upon you requesting it

Ok that's great to know James as I have no plug socket in the hallway to plug in the modem where the faceplate currently is and it would make more sense to have it moved to where my PC is at now.


Steve

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You seem to be forgetting that BT Retail is nothing to do with other ISPs. BT Retail do not do the installations and the other ISPs are not reselling the BT Retail services.

I didn't forget as such but was extremely lazy by calling the people who do the installations BT where I should have been explicit and said BT Openreach

But Openreach do not charge the end user. The laziness is incidental to the fact that BT Infinity and its charging structure from BT Retail is not resold by anyone.

So FTTC products are not the same.

Here's a hair - please split it !!!

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

Here's a hair - please split it !!!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But Openreach do not charge the end user. The laziness is incidental to the fact that BT Infinity and its charging structure from BT Retail is not resold by anyone.

I suspect the problem is that OpenReach still has a (small) BT logo on their vans. They should get rid of that, and just be OpenReach Ltd. Maybe all the shares can be owned by British Telecommuncations Plc at the top

The general "BT" that people use is in this complex regulated world too generic.

Any idea of the biscuit preference of the Open Reach engineers ?

Steve

From what a couple have said on here then fig biscuits are very rare and much treasured.

Which isn't much use if the particular engineer doesn't like them.

Ah, the persuasive power of the maligned fig newton.

Malted milk, and a decent cup of tea can sometimes do the trick.

Them half chocolate Balkusen ones are funky too !

"Them half chocolate Balkusen ones are funky too !"

You probably mean Bahlsen Choco Leibniz, in which case I deffo agree. I'd post a link but their website is comprised of useless Flash. Try a supermarket site instead; apparently Waitrose [1] had them half price earlier in the year but I missed it. I think I've seen them cheap in Aldi too.

Where were we?

[1] http://www.waitrose.com/shop/ProductView-10309-10001... (also available in orange and in plain)

Yeah, that'd be them. Too busy stuffing them in me gob to read the spelling !

Ah yes the German Bahlsen Leibniz Choco dead cheap in Germany when I lived there and cost and arm and a leg here

Well I guess I will have to look in Tesco's on my way home from work on Wednesday, too tempting to buy now as I am sure by the time Thursday comes and the man from Openreach arrived in the afternoon, the biscuit tin might stand a very good chance to be quite empty

Steve

better still, i always prefer a bacon sandwich to a biscuit any day

Sadly a Jewish household here

Steve