BT Infinity, past 80mb

Does anyone know if BT have ever hinted at removing the 80mb cap, for people that are close to the cabinet.

I believe people that are sitting on top of the cabinet could potentially get 120-130mb ????

What modem would they use?

Don't know about the removal of the cap.
I had fttc installed on friday, very pleasant open reach engineer. When he saw i was interested he showed me all the readings etc on the test equipment. I'm about 100-150m from the cabinet. he said i had a good line and showed me on his device that the line max sync was 129Meg.

Its hard to advertise a product which so few people would get, as too many would be disapointed. it would be an ASA nightmare.
i suppose they could advertise an above 80meg, for those already achieving the full 78meg
speed.

He also told me that my cabinet was filling up quite quickly, so there is clearly demand .

Given that Openreach will be offering FTTP on demand from 2013 in FTTC areas I suppose that they won't be too bothered about dropping the 80meg cap, if people want faster speeds they can go that route.

Also I have seen on forums lots of complaints from people who didn't get the full 80meg from infinity 2 and comments like "I pay for 80 meg I should get 80 meg"

last week I saw 1 person complain that their 42 meg line had dropped to 37 meg (due to problems outside the BT network) and went on a huuuge hissy fit about how it wasn't good enough and when Be offered FTTC we would be back with them like a shot.

They even claimed that they could "see" the difference in web pages loading.

As said above can you image the problems from the vocal minority that would kick up if any uncapped product didn't meet their unrealistic expectations.

It would actually make very good business sense.

just offer to remove the cap for anyone that wants it, for an extra £5 a month.

loads of people who just want max speed would take it up. bear in mind their infrastructure and backhaul is going to need to support 300mb speeds of fttc, its an easy cash cow.

no need to offer xxx speed either.. just offer to remove the cap for £5 quid a month. and if you dont like it, you can revert back the next month.

ofc. BT have very limited good business sense

Hello!

The subscriber linecards (H831VDSH) which Openreach is currently installing in the Huawei SmartAX MA5616 DSLAMs are limited to Profile 17a (up to 100Mbps downstream) [1]

Huawei does make a Profile 30a linecard (up to 200Mbps downstream) but it has a much lower port density, currently supporting just 16 subscriber lines instead of the 48 ports provided by today's Profile 17a linecards.

Also it is not permitted to mix Profile 17a and Profile 30a linecards in the same DSLAM. All linecards have to be the same Profile, because of problems from crosstalk and limitations with the DSLAM controller board (the H831CCUC).

In theory, if Openreach was to offer a Profile 30a service (up to 200Mbps downstream), it would require four times the current concentration of street cabinets. So Profile 30a is probably only viable where take-up will be high, e.g. in very affluent areas like Kensington & Chelsea.

cheers, a

[1] http://enterprise.huawei.com/ilink/cnenterprise/down...

In reply to a post by asbokid:

Hello! it would require four times the current concentration of street cabinets. So Profile 30a is probably only viable where take-up will be high, e.g. in very affluent areas like Kensington & Chelsea.

If only !

Dear K&C council,

As you recently refused us permission to install 96 cabinets we have reconsidered the options and would like to offer K&C residents the highest possible speeds available. We have redesigned the local network and will be submitting our plans for just 400 cabinets to be installed.

Rgds

BT Openreach

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Given that Openreach will be offering FTTP on demand from 2013 in FTTC areas I suppose that they won't be too bothered about dropping the 80meg cap, if people want faster speeds they can go that route.

Also I have seen on forums lots of complaints from people who didn't get the full 80meg from infinity 2 and comments like "I pay for 80 meg I should get 80 meg"

last week I saw 1 person complain that their 42 meg line had dropped to 37 meg (due to problems outside the BT network) and went on a huuuge hissy fit about how it wasn't good enough and when Be offered FTTC we would be back with them like a shot.

They even claimed that they could "see" the difference in web pages loading.

As said above can you image the problems from the vocal minority that would kick up if any uncapped product didn't meet their unrealistic expectations.

I love your quoted example, 42Mb -> 37Mb is a 12% decrease in speed... My line goes from 5Mb -> 3Mb (variation of 40%) depending on if it's raining, I should obviously throw more hissy fits Before anyone comments I know there are those still on around 1Mb, so I should be thankful for what I have!

The subscriber linecards (H831VDSH) which Openreach is currently installing in the Huawei SmartAX MA5616 DSLAMs are limited to Profile 17a (up to 100Mbps downstream) [1]

Aha,. i see....


Well, still a wise business move to offer it, if the kit supports it.

Are you paid more than the guys who plan BT's marketing? If not, why not?

Bwhaha! Have you considered the Diplomatic Service, MHC?! Or the PR dept of BT?!
cheers, a

80mb is fine, stop being greedy and be grateful you receive wonderful speeds.

In reply to a post by asbokid:

In theory, if Openreach was to offer a Profile 30a service (up to 200Mbps downstream), it would require four times the current concentration of street cabinets. So Profile 30a is probably only viable where take-up will be high, e.g. in very affluent areas like Kensington & Chelsea.

He he - not if the K&C local council has anything to do with it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18277561

===
Ooops - I see already mentioned but I'll leave the post standing for the link

Edited by kwikbreaks (Mon 04-Jun-12 10:29:19)

In reply to a post by Moradin:

The subscriber linecards (H831VDSH) which Openreach is currently installing in the Huawei SmartAX MA5616 DSLAMs are limited to Profile 17a (up to 100Mbps downstream) [1]

Aha,. i see....


Well, still a wise business move to offer it, if the kit supports it.

But the question is how many people would even be able to get over the 80meg.

Currently it could only be 30-50k of which not even all of them may not even want to be uncapped.

As said above offering a service of which only a few thousand people may even take up just months before FTTP on demnad is launched seems like a waste of time and money from OR's point of view.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

As said above offering a service of which only a few thousand people may even take up just months before FTTP on demnad is launched seems like a waste of time and money from OR's point of view.

But then it's likely that a lot more people would pay a few quid a month for something which requires essentially zero work by OR than are likely to pay the installation fees for FTTP on Demand...

Seems like an obvious little earner for OR to me.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

As said above offering a service of which only a few thousand people may even take up just months before FTTP on demnad is launched seems like a waste of time and money from OR's point of view.

But then it's likely that a lot more people would pay a few quid a month for something which requires essentially zero work by OR than are likely to pay the installation fees for FTTP on Demand...

Seems like an obvious little earner for OR to me.

As some stage the bandwidth in the backhaul is going to need upgrading!

Are you paid more than the guys who plan BT's marketing? If not, why not?

I think BT should take me on as a consultant. They obviously don't know what people want. (at some ridiculous salary !!)

A comparison, would be to build a 1 mile circular go-kart track, with 500cc engines in the karts.
then limit them to 25mph....

If your kit supports 100mb, then offer that as the highest speed, if your backhaul has to support 330mb anyway, you lose nothing, the customer gains very little, but more cash for the ISP.

How many people would use it, was the question posed. well, how many cabinets x how people live within 100m of the cabinet i would answer. who knows. its a fair number for sure.

I'd be more interested in the upstream cap being raised. IIRC the limit if you have a very short line to the cab is about 35M. I could probably find more use for that than more downstream bandwidth. I really have no use for 80Mbit at the moment aside from willy waving, heck 40mbit even - if I'm getting something big enough to benefit from more then 20mbit I generally set it to download overnight when it'll be there in the morning just the same if it downloaded at 20mbit or 80.

The cap will be lifted as another marketing gimmick, when they need another push. But you might have to wait for 30a profiles before they do that.

Most VDSL routers/modems do not come with more than 100/10 Ethernet. So even if you connect at 130Mb with little overheads you won't see those kind of speeds in real life. It's just like BT though to cap their products. 20Mb upload is great.. But the profile allows for upto 30+Mb as is being demonstrated by other FTTC providers using 17a.

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

80mb is fine, stop being greedy and be grateful you receive wonderful speeds.

It's not about being greedy, it's about seeing what you're line is capable of and being limited for no apparent reason. I'm sure some would pay extra to be totally unrestricted.

BT always start off slow and plod along until their is a marketable reason to lift their artificially low limits. Which is a small part of the reason I avoid them like the plague.

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

BT always start off slow and plod along until their is a marketable reason to lift their artificially low limits. Which is a small part of the reason I avoid them like the plague.

It makes good business sense though doesn't it. When the price the average person is willing to spend is limited, you want more than one "product generation" out of the billions invested.

I would like to repeat the question about uncapping the modem.

If I could only download the config file i would easly edit it and upload back. I do agree that this is not a normal procedure but why not surf at higher speed if possible?

My Stats:
Attainable rate (kbit/s): 137796 Downstream
35433 Upstream

I am really close to the green cabinet, maybe 40 metres.

Is there any chance downloding the file via tftp server or ftp somehow?

the modem isn't capped

It must be...

Why does it show i can go 136MBit (OBVIOUSLY ONLY 100MB DUE TO MODEM ETHERNET SPEC) while only getting 76MBit ?

Because it's an 80Mbps service?

I uncaped my cable modem in 2004 via TFTP server.

When you log in to Huwaei after unlocking you can see in stats that it is 80MB service only because it is caped to 79999 Downstream and 20000 Upstream but attainable is 136000 Downstream and 33600 Upstream.

Every time you restart modem it boots with preconfigured file where you get firewall rules, routing and speed etc.

That`s how it works.

And I am sure there are plenty people already uncapping it but not sharing this info with others so BT does not start working on blocking it more and more...

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I uncaped my cable modem in 2004 via TFTP server.

Cable modems work in that way, but VDSL modems (such as the Openreach Huawei) do not. They work in a very similar way to ADSL / ADSL2+.

The large box at the other end of the line sets the maximum possible and they then negotiate a speed given the length of the copper wires and the permitted noise levels.

The attainable speed shown is the theoretical speeds if there was 0db noise on the copper - but that is never the case.

For example my ADSL2+ modem shows I'm sync'd at 16.7meg but says attainable rate is 20.4meg - and there is no way I can get 20meg. On a 3db noise margin setting I can get 18meg but it disconnects about 20 times a day making it unusable.

Edited by jchamier (Thu 05-Jul-12 23:19:47)

That's how cable works but not how DSL works - the line profile is controlled by the dslam/msan in the cab or exchange.

My estimate was 76.6 Meg Down and 20 Meg Up. I do not understand why they did not show a 100 Meg option to me as I am saying I am 40 metres from cabinet and I get 76 Meg at SNR 22.8 dB out of 138024 attainable?
SNR even changed to 9 dB (where on 3 dB with O2 was stable for weeks) should give me at least 120 meg but will not because it is caped. Is there no safe way of uploding another uncaped config file ?

You've quoted the attainable rates to us from your modem. How about telling us the actual connection speeds?

In the GUI that's the Line Rate. Via telnet it's the "Path" line immediately below the attainable line.

If you want more bandwidth you can always bond 2 or more lines together, or get FTTP.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2047620939.png

I am Fiber-to-the-Building. Imagine 40 metres to the cabinet

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=13415...

http://www.pingtest.net/result/66140674.png

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

My estimate was 76.6 Meg Down and 20 Meg Up. I do not understand why they did not show a 100 Meg option to me as I am saying I am 40 metres from cabinet and I get 76 Meg at SNR 22.8 dB out of 138024 attainable?
SNR even changed to 9 dB (where on 3 dB with O2 was stable for weeks) should give me at least 120 meg but will not because it is caped. Is there no safe way of uploding another uncaped config file ?

As people have already said several times, VDSL is capped at the DSLAM not the modem. Only Openreach can lift that cap.

The reason the modem still claims a higher attainable rate is it can still see your line has spare capacity, even if the DSLAM will not allow it to use it.