Superfast North Yorkshire

Yesterday was the official launch of Superfast North Yorkshire, the BDUK project for the county. As well as members of North Yorkshire County Council and NYNET (the private IT delivery company wholly owned by the council who were involved in the procurement process) there was Bill Murphy (MD of NGA), Mike Galvin (MD of Network Investment) and some other BT project managers and engineers.

A website (SuperfastNorthYorkshire.com) was announced which will be regularly updated with information on the deployment (we will see over the next few months how regular these updates really are). A new Superfast North Yorkshire logo was also unveiled which may appear on Openreach vans and FTTC cabs in the county.

It was reiterated that the contract specified that 90% of premises would be connected to fibre broadband with the remaining 10% receiving at least 2Mbit/s down and 0.5 Mbit/s up with the project being completed by the end of 2014. The point was made the satellite would be the last resort and that white space, fixed wireless and 4G/LTE were also being considered. It should be noted that fixed wireless broadband provided by LN Communications (which uses the NYNET PSN for backhaul) covers quite a few rural locations in the county already with typical speeds of 20Mbit/s symmetrical bursting up to 50Mbit/s. BT also said that they wanted to work with communities in the final 10% and would consider extending fibre to these areas if the community could show demand and also do some of the digging etc.

As for areas of deployment only two were actually announced - Amotherby and Ainderby Steeple. These are small villages and will be used to trial a new type of fibre which BT hasn�t used before and which works better over longer distances than the fibre they have been using in their commercial deployment. It looks like the exchange head ends for these two areas are Malton and Northallerton respectively which are already FTTC enabled as part of BT�s commercial rollout. Other areas included in the first phase of deployment are due to be announced in the next couple of months. The first phase areas are scheduled to be completed by Spring 2013 and will cover 11,000 homes and businesses.

As for exchange only lines Mike Galvin said that 80% of EO lines would get FTTC (via hybrid cabinets that Openreach have been trialing in Steanalees, Cornwall) and 20% FTTP. I pressed him on which areas would get native FTTP but he would not say at present.

Bill Murphy thought that it would be another few months before the EU granted state aid approval for the BDUK framework which should give North Yorkshire a bit of a head start as it applied for, and has been granted EU state aid approval separately.

I will try and update the thread with any further information I get.

Is anyone else on the forums from North Yorkshire?

This is fascinating. I'm from Cumbria, waiting for the superfast broadband rollout over there. This part really interested me:

In reply to a post by desouzr:

BT also said that they wanted to work with communities in the final 10% and would consider extending fibre to these areas if the community could show demand and also do some of the digging etc.

Does anyone know if this is the first time that BT have said that they will consider rolling out Fibre due to community demand and self-digging? I always thought they would pick whether or not to use fibre in an area due to return on investment only, especially in rural areas

Edited by deleted (Sun 30-Sep-12 14:27:56)

Well as it would be subsidised with public funds I suppose the conditions like ROI are not the same as with their commercial rollout. As North Yorkshire is the first BDUK project out of the blocks it may well be that we will see more of this in the final 10% in other counties as their projects move from procurement to deployment. Maybe it's also a tactic in response to projects like B4RN. We shall see if any communities in North Yorkshire can persude BT to extend past the 90% mark.

In reply to a post by desouzr:

Is anyone else on the forums from North Yorkshire?

Yup.

Yesterday was the official launch of Superfast North Yorkshire, the BDUK project for the county. As well as members of North Yorkshire County Council and NYNET (the private IT delivery company wholly owned by the council who were involved in the procurement process) there was Bill Murphy (MD of NGA), Mike Galvin (MD of Network Investment) and some other BT project managers and engineers.

Ah - was this at the conference in Ripon? Wish I could have made that - I'm sure it would have been very interesting.

A website (SuperfastNorthYorkshire.com) was announced which will be regularly updated with information on the deployment (we will see over the next few months how regular these updates really are). A new Superfast North Yorkshire logo was also unveiled which may appear on Openreach vans and FTTC cabs in the county.

That sounds very much like the Cornish project - which, I think, very much works to get local people energised in the local aspects of the project. The whole concept of a local website, local company, and re-branding of vans is part of that. Hopefully the website will end up with as much information as the Superfast Cornwall one.

Bill Murphy thought that it would be another few months before the EU granted state aid approval for the BDUK framework which should give North Yorkshire a bit of a head start as it applied for, and has been granted EU state aid approval separately.

That too sounds like Cornwall. I suspected that NY's EU aid would be a similar case - that it wouldn't need to wait for approval. In fact, perhaps that is why NY is amongst the pilots! I wonder if Cumbria turns out to be the same.

It was reiterated that the contract specified that 90% of premises would be connected to fibre broadband with the remaining 10% receiving at least 2Mbit/s down and 0.5 Mbit/s up with the project being completed by the end of 2014. The point was made the satellite would be the last resort and that white space, fixed wireless and 4G/LTE were also being considered. It should be noted that fixed wireless broadband provided by LN Communications (which uses the NYNET PSN for backhaul) covers quite a few rural locations in the county already with typical speeds of 20Mbit/s symmetrical bursting up to 50Mbit/s. BT also said that they wanted to work with communities in the final 10% and would consider extending fibre to these areas if the community could show demand and also do some of the digging etc.

I've so many questions about the breakdown of *all* of these parts. Things like:
- How many more exchanges will get add to the fibre conversion lists?
- How much infill of cabinets on existing exchanges will be performed?
- How do they expect the 10% will be served? ie a breakdown of ADSL1; extra conversion to 21CN/ADSL2+; fixed wireless; 4G/LTE; Whitespace; BET, etc
- Do they see an impact from fibre-on-demand?

I'd also like to know what people are going to be expected to pay if the end up falling into one of the more esoteric solutions.

As for areas of deployment only two were actually announced - Amotherby and Ainderby Steeple. These are small villages and will be used to trial a new type of fibre which BT hasn�t used before and which works better over longer distances than the fibre they have been using in their commercial deployment.

These don't seem to have their own exchanges, so it would appear that this is "just" a straightforward FTTC cabinet rollout. It'd be interesting to see exactly why BT consider this to be worth trialling something new-enough to be worth reporting like this. I thought the standard fibre could go around 20km... so perhaps not!

The first phase areas are scheduled to be completed by Spring 2013 and will cover 11,000 homes and businesses.

Any feeling from them as to whether these will be built out (so market 2, or big market 1), or remote small locations?

As for exchange only lines Mike Galvin said that 80% of EO lines would get FTTC (via hybrid cabinets that Openreach have been trialing in Steanalees, Cornwall) and 20% FTTP.

Now that is pretty impressive - that's a commitment to get fibre to 100% of EO lines, which is the first time I've heard of *any* sort of commitment on EO lines!
Off to google Steanalees next...

I will try and update the thread with any further information I get.

Please do...

In reply to a post by indigobanana:

Does anyone know if this is the first time that BT have said that they will consider rolling out Fibre due to community demand and self-digging? I always thought they would pick whether or not to use fibre in an area due to return on investment only, especially in rural areas

I always remember them being pretty hard-nosed back when Rutland Telecom were doing their first rollout.

Obviously the BDUK funding has gotten to their warm & cuddly side

Or perhaps someone has had a re-think that fewer wholesale providers is a better idea for competition at the retail level.

Wombat- Andrew covered Openreach's plans on EO lines in a news article on the site, in this article below at the bottom.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5223-openreach-co...

I didn't really read that as a definitive 100% commitment. After all, BT are still touting BET for some of the EO lines on the Cornish website.

I suppose, however, it was confirmation that they did have *something* planned for EO.

As for areas of deployment only two were actually announced - Amotherby and Ainderby Steeple. These are small villages and will be used to trial a new type of fibre which BT hasn�t used before and which works better over longer distances than the fibre they have been using in their commercial deployment.

These don't seem to have their own exchanges, so it would appear that this is "just" a straightforward FTTC cabinet rollout. It'd be interesting to see exactly why BT consider this to be worth trialling something new-enough to be worth reporting like this. I thought the standard fibre could go around 20km... so perhaps not!

The new fibre being used can go up to 40 km apparently.

The first phase areas are scheduled to be completed by Spring 2013 and will cover 11,000 homes and businesses.

Any feeling from them as to whether these will be built out (so market 2, or big market 1), or remote small locations?

I don't know but will try to extract some more information.

As for exchange only lines Mike Galvin said that 80% of EO lines would get FTTC (via hybrid cabinets that Openreach have been trialing in Steanalees, Cornwall) and 20% FTTP.

Now that is pretty impressive - that's a commitment to get fibre to 100% of EO lines, which is the first time I've heard of *any* sort of commitment on EO lines!
Off to google Steanalees next...

I don't know if they will commit to 100% of EO lines getting fibre. I think the percentages were a rough approximation when I put him on the spot.

I see there are some videos on yourtube now: YouTube - broadband NY.

I'll have to watch later...

Just found out (unofficially) that my cab is due to be fibre enabled in Spring 2013. If this info is correct I guess my exchange (MYPBG) should be on the next quarterly Openreach list which is due out in December. Fingers crossed.

Edited by deleted (Wed 07-Nov-12 17:10:10)

While it�s great to see the BDUK project in North Yorkshire really gaining momentum in the delivery phase it is with anticipation that I wait for work to commence in my area.

Having done regular checks on the usual websites over the last few months I noticed road works scheduled for near the PCP I am connected to. Last Tuesday a FTTC base was laid and yesterday a fibre cab was placed [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/33y5f0w.jpg[/IMG]
Correct me if I�m wrong but it looks like a Huawei 288 to me.

The Openreach site indicates that it should be AO by the end of September. If there aren�t any issues with blocked ducts, power etc. what are the chances that it will be AO in weeks rather than months given that it is part of the BDUK project and not within BT�s commercial rollout?

In reply to a post by desouzr:

http://i42.tinypic.com/33y5f0w.jpg
Correct me if I�m wrong but it looks like a Huawei 288 to me.

Yup. Expecting plenty of sign-ups then.

The Openreach site indicates that it should be AO by the end of September. If there aren�t any issues with blocked ducts, power etc. what are the chances that it will be AO in weeks rather than months given that it is part of the BDUK project and not within BT�s commercial rollout?

The exchange status changing to AO isn't normally affected by any individual cabinets having blocked ducts, although it could happen if the main fibre route back to a parent exchange is blocked. This doesn't seem likely, as the exchange has 21CN, so likely has the necessary feeds.

The AO status is likely to come when some of the cabinets are ready, but not necessarily all of them. But whether this differs because of the BDUK project, I don't think we know yet - you are the first area to be able to give us feedback on that. It certainly could be just a few weeks, but it could be a few months still.

Having said that, the twitter feed for SFNY recently announced that the Clifton exchange (York) had gone live, even though it was also marked as a CS for September 13.

On the one hand a high take up would be good to see but on the other hand it would introduce more cross talk and less speed for everyone.

I wonder if/when vectoring is introduced how cabs upgraded via BDUK will factor.

As far as I can tell this is the only cab on the exchange getting fibre in this phase of the rollout so when it goes live I expect the exchange status will change to AO.

I saw that Clifton had gone live ahead of schedule. Gives me some hope.

Roadworks were scheduled from 28 may until 10 June. I wonder if power, tie cable and the fibre feed will be connected by 10 June? Then testing I gather before it goes live on the database?

Either way, having waited 3 years for faster broadband 3 months is within touching distance.

In reply to a post by desouzr:

As far as I can tell this is the only cab on the exchange getting fibre in this phase of the rollout so when it goes live I expect the exchange status will change to AO.

That's a good point - one of the effects of BDUK is that it is going into smaller places with fewer cabinets, so exchange AO date will become very synonymous with the cabinet date.

I wonder if/when vectoring is introduced how cabs upgraded via BDUK will factor.

My understanding is that BDUK helps fund the initial installation, and then all the ongoing upgrade, maintenance, support (and risk) is taken on by BT. To that end, the rural cabinets ought to be no different.

I guess we'll ultimately discover if BT applies a similar viability/profitability calculation to upgrade of individual cabinets; probably in 2 or 3 years time though!

Roadworks were scheduled from 28 may until 10 June. I wonder if power, tie cable and the fibre feed will be connected by 10 June?

R0nski's recent post on another thread had a roadworks entry that certainly included power at the same time as ducting, concrete plinth and installation of the cabinet.

I'm not sure the openreach Where and When checker is necessarily updated with Superfast North Yorkshire availability.

The pin for my exchange (RIPON) is still showing as CS with a date of Sept. 2013 and I have had a FTTC connection for a few weeks now.

The exchange is listed in the appropriate PDF (Exchanges already accepting orders), though.

I found that the Wholesale postcode checker gave a closer date once the cabinet works in our village were well underway. With the FTTC availability disappearing from the postcode checker for about 10 days (about when the sticker got put on the cab) before the number checker started listing FTTC as being available and I was able to order it.

-Steve.

Today the BT Wholesale checker is showing FTTC from my cab being available from 30/06/13. Speed Prediction given is 55/13. As this has just appeared it looks like all the work has been completed. The Openreach site had it listed as CS for Sept so 3 months ahead of schedule.

You by any chance on cabinet 20 in Ripon desouzr? My phone line also came up today with availability from 30th June, although I'm showing 50/13.

Still anythings better than the <4 I'm getting on ADSL. Anybody know when an order can be placed for this? Can I preorder this week, or will PlusNet not accept orders until after the date.

No one will accept orders until its actually live, just keep checking.

Alphapapa - I'm on cab 1 in Pateley Bridge.

Doh.

Checker now says 31st July for my cabinet.

Mine's moved to 30th September. However, this is just the next quarterly holding date. I'm hoping that it will go live before then.

Update from SFNY is that in relation to PCP1 there are a number of blocked and broken ducts that need sorting. Now hoping that my cab will be AO by end of September and not pushed back any further. I also found out that network rearrangements will take place to deal with the cluster of businesses in the centre of Pateley that are on EO lines. However, no indication of planned roadworks yet to indicate when this will take place although this is ment to be done by the end of September according to SFNY. Bad news is that no other cabs on the exchange are due to be upgraded.

Are these SFNY updates online anywhere? All i can see on the website is the generic stuff about how / where / when. (Maybe a twitter feed?).
Thanks.

They do have a Twitter feed but if you want specific information then e-mail them. The e-mail address is on the website.

I had an interesting e-mail exchange with someone from TalkTalk head office towards the end of last week.
Basically I had asked whether they had any plans to unbundle my Market 1 exchange (which was 21CN enabled about a year ago and is due to get FTTC in Sept via BDUK). They said that they planned to unbundle the exchange as soon as it was fibre enabled so that they could provide TalkTalk ADSL2+ LLU and FTTC services. Whilst I am not a TalkTalk customer I�m hoping that that they are true to their word as it should mean that I can get FTTC from Plusnet (my current ISP) for only a few quid more than I am paying at the moment for ADSL2+ (if they/Samknows recognises my exchange as being Market 2) . I did try and contact Sky about whether they had any LLU plans for my exchange but I haven�t had any response as yet. It would be interesting to see if this is going to be a trend with Market 1 exchanges that are FTTC enabled via BDUK projects. Given that, �The TalkTalk LLU network is the largest ADSL2+ network in the UK, with the 2,724 exchange covering approximately 95% of the UK population, and expansion has not finished the provider is looking to add another 300 exchanges in the next year (previous year saw 216 exchanges added)� (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5847-talktalk-results-show-tv-is-growing-rapidly-as-broadband-driver.html) this does add some credibility to the information that I have received. Just a few more months wait to find out.

Sorry but exchanges are only re-classified when OFCOM does a re-classification survey.
Not when a LLU operator arrives.
These are done every few years - last was 2010.

This is deliberate

The classification scheme allows LLU operators to gain extra profits from mkt 1 exchanges and acts as an incentive for them to go into an exchange in the first place.
If the exchange was immediately re-classified as a mk2 exchange upon LLU arrival then the incentive for them to arrive in the first place has just gone.
By delaying re-classification of exchanges therefore OFCOM gives a certain time period in which the LLU operator can make extra profits out of it and thus make it financially viable for him to make the capital investment to install the equipment at the start.

The whole objective behind the scheme is indeed to encourage LLU operators to go into small market 1 exchanges and to stimulate competition.

I realise that the next Ofcom review of this will occur in March 2014. However, my point was that as a consumer I will either benefit from the lower LLU prices - if I choose to move to that LLU provider/reseller or that my ISP (Plusnet in this case) have confirmed that they will charge me the equivalent of their cheaper Market 2/3 rates once a non BTW provider shows up as being active on my exchange.

In reply to a post by desouzr:

I realise that the next Ofcom review of this will occur in March 2014. However, my point was that as a consumer I will either benefit from the lower LLU prices - if I choose to move to that LLU provider/reseller or that my ISP (Plusnet in this case) have confirmed that they will charge me the equivalent of their cheaper Market 2/3 rates once a non BTW provider shows up as being active on my exchange.

Plusnet will give you Market 2/3 rates even though they're still going to be paying Market 1?

Interesting.

Well that's what they said. I'll see what happens in practice.

In reply to a post by zom22:

This is deliberate

The classification scheme allows LLU operators to gain extra profits from mkt 1 exchanges and acts as an incentive for them to go into an exchange in the first place.

I'm not entirely sure this is correct, even if it sounds wonderful.

The Ofcom classification was done based on both the knowledge of where LLU unbundling had already happened, *and* based on where the LLU operators were planning to exand to - though based on plans at the time.

If the classification was done using future plans, then surely market 1 exchanges would have jumped to market 2 or 3 well before the operators actually went live, and preventing these "extra profits" - totally opposite to the effect you describe as "deliberate".

For example, the Ofcom report on WBA (2010) made the following definition: "Market 1: exchanges where only BT is present or forecast to be present (11.7 per cent of premises)" with a footnote of "In assessing forecasted plans we have only counted operators as present where they have firm plans to deploy in specific exchanges."

In reply to a post by desouzr:

Well that's what they said. I'll see what happens in practice.

Scrap that. Just seen the new Ofcom Market A/B proposals...

Happy to report my cabinet went 'available' on Saturday 27th July.

Engineer visit booked via Plusnet for 13th August.

My Cab (Cab1 on the Pateley Bridge exchange) went live this morning. The Openreach site still has the exchange as 'coming soon' with the placeholder date moved to Dec-13. I'm guessing that this is because the only other cab on the exchange that was due to get FTTC was one to be built for the EO lines. This network rearrangement work is behind schedule so will not completed until sometime next quarter at the earliest.

Interestingly Talktalk (not my ISP) were true to their word and have LLU'd the exchange to coincide with FTTC deployment. I wonder if this will be replicated on other exchanges that are FTTx enabled via BDUK projects.

Well BDUK have delivered here!

Originally it was going to be 'sometime in 2014', then at the beginning of summer it changed to 30 Sep 2013.
On 1st October it changed to 30th October, but checking yesterday the exchange was Accepting Orders.
So only a couple of days off on their estimation.

I have ordered Fibre this today! Ended up going with BT. Hope that will prove to be OK. Looking online, they just seemed to have a slight edge over the other providers.

I don't have a bad ADSL connection downstream (16Mbps approx.) but the upload is a bit pants at under 1Mbps. I work from home and have to transfer large chunks of data backwards and forwards. I am hoping the quoted 19Mbps upload speed will help with that. And the quoted 72Mbps download speed should assist with on demand stuff too.

Can't wait for the 18th October (installation date)

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Oct-13 17:33:56)

Renko31 - which exchange are you connected to?

In reply to a post by desouzr:

Renko31 - which exchange are you connected to?

Kirkbymoorside. They have been doing quite a bit of work around here. Saw them blowing the fibre a couple of weeks back, and there was a van with a cable drum on the back just near the exchange today.

Given we are a rural area, I think they are offering FTTP to outlying properties and villages served by the exchange.

Well I am now connected! BT Home Hub 5, so no modem which is nice.
HomeHub is reporting connection of 78.12Mbps down/19.53Mbps up.

For those who are interested, this was my experience.

Was on TalkTalk for phone and broadband.
Ordered BT phone and Infinity 2 via web. Kept up to date via emails and texts. Installation for Friday 18th October - morning.
HomeHub should have arrived Wednesday via Royal Mail (when I was in), but arrived Thursday (when I was out all day!).
When I got back on Thursday, my phone line was dead but broadband was still working.
Friday, broadband worked until about 9.15 when it went off. Popped to the Post Office at 9am to collect HomeHub.
Openreach engineer called about 9.30 to say he was at the cabinet and would be round in about half an hour.
Half an hour later, he turned up. Replaced the master socket, plugged in the HomeHub and used my laptop to confirm everything was working.
So I was back up and running by 10.30am.

Pretty smooth all round and a great upload speed!
Also, just to say, TalkTalk kept me informed via email and letter about my service ceasing with them, which was good.
Just hope the final payments go through smoothly.

FTTC installed this morning (was due to be last week but that's another story). I was a bit concerned when a Kelly Communications guy turned up, after reading some of the posts about the botched installs they've done. However, this guy knew his stuff. He fitted the new faceplate on an existing extension before going off to do the work at the cab. He had everything up and running in less then half an hour. My line length is about 400 metres to the cab. The prediction was 55/13. Wired speed test result below

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13824...

Very happy with the result but will give it a few days to see if DLM intervenes. According to the engineer there are only about 6 people connected to my fibre cab at the moment so it will only be a matter of time before cross talk knocks the speed back a bit.

Although there are many faults with the whole BDUK process I have to acknowledge that I am one of the lucky ones who have benefitted.

Can't knock that speed, can you?