LENCO CAUSES FIBRE DELAY say Openreach

Been told the contractor Lenco is responsible for delay in my cab.

"The cabinet in question is at the end of the spine route and delivery of light is dependent on blockages being cleared and duct being provided. These are subject to traffic management restriction and the associated delay, in addition other utilities (Gas Board) are working in the area."

can someone explain what this means?

thanks

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 19:37:34)

just standard fob off?

is this the right company?

LENCO CONSTRUCTION LTD

UNIT 15 STATION ROAD INDUSTRIAL, ESTATE, STATION RO
BT61 7NP ARMAGH, COUNTY ARMAGH

Phone: 028 37511522
Fax: 028 37511345

anyone got company director email?

anyone?

SORRY

Openreach say Lenco are causing my delay!

BT usually refer to the spine when they're talking about the fibre route. And it certainly is the fibre that needs lighting up.

So that's what needs to be delivered.

The problem is the duct that the fibre needs to be blown through - which seems to be blocked. Each blockage needs some form of streetworks.

In this case, there seems to be problems in co-ordinating the streetworks with other organisations.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

BT usually refer to the spine when they're talking about the fibre route. And it certainly is the fibre that needs lighting up.

So that's what needs to be delivered.

The problem is the duct that the fibre needs to be blown through - which seems to be blocked. Each blockage needs some form of streetworks.

In this case, there seems to be problems in co-ordinating the streetworks with other organisations.

But isn't above statement just a standard reply and relates to any DSLAM?

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

But isn't above statement just a standard reply and relates to any DSLAM?

If you mean the one in your opening post, it looks to me to be anything but a standard reply.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

But isn't above statement just a standard reply and relates to any DSLAM?

If you mean the one in your opening post, it looks to me to be anything but a standard reply.

Agree, but doesn't actually tell me anything, kinda like beating around the bush.

What difference?

They'll do it when they do it and nowt you can do can influence it.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

What difference?

They'll do it when they do it and nowt you can do can influence it.

Maybe maybe not, but it does show contractors can spin any line they want to OR, and not a thing OR can do.

Just feels like a fob off.

"Your cabinet is the last along the main fibre route, but we can't install the fibre to it until the damaged ducts have been repaired. As this involves digging and will cause traffic disruption, we have to wait until the local authority grants permission before we are permitted to start. It appears that the Gas company are also working in the same location, so we may have to wait until they finish before we are allowed to start."

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 20:32:03)

No apology needed for that, though you're not going to get much of a response in 9 minutes to a post asking for some random company director email address.

Neither even if you did write to the company director are you likely to get anywhere - these issues are outside the control of both Openreach and the contractor.

You have not been fobbed off, you have been given an informative reply explaining the exact issues.

Take a minute, go to the nearest pub and sink a couple rather than obsessing over FTTC and posting 5 times in a matter of minutes.

Basically they are saying the plastic tube that needs to be pushed through the ducting that is in the ground has met an obstruction and to clear that needs some roadworks as the blockage appears to be in the road.

Councils restrict road works so that no too many are happening in the same area at the same time, i.e. total gridlock

Once that tube is in the fibre that carries the light signal can be blown through

Twaddle.
If the duct is blocked, then it is blocked, this will require at least one dig, and even mention laying new duct, as Mr.S replied, these works have to get permission from the local authorities, arrange traffic lights, organise contractors to do the civils, etc,etc.In Reading a couple of months ago, to gain access to an underground chamber located below a main road, (no digging, just three way lights and a days access) meant a three month wait.

Take a minute, go to the nearest pub and sink a couple

Possibly not old enough to get served yet ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Take a minute, go to the nearest pub and sink a couple

Possibly not old enough to get served yet ?

Who knows, maybe the barman would fob him off instead of serving him.

I would have adored such a detailed and accurate response to the queries I've made as opposed to the complete twaddle I've been receiving from the twonk of a PM.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Twaddle.
If the duct is blocked, then it is blocked, this will require at least one dig, and even mention laying new duct, as Mr.S replied, these works have to get permission from the local authorities, arrange traffic lights, organise contractors to do the civils, etc,etc.In Reading a couple of months ago, to gain access to an underground chamber located below a main road, (no digging, just three way lights and a days access) meant a three month wait.

My point is they made no attempt to run fibre to it yet, I queried delay and got that reply.

currently no other utilities have any planned works for another 3 weeks.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Take a minute, go to the nearest pub and sink a couple

Possibly not old enough to get served yet ?

Who knows, maybe the barman would fob him off instead of serving him.

I would have adored such a detailed and accurate response to the queries I've made as opposed to the complete twaddle I've been receiving from the twonk of a PM.

a Posh fob off is still a posh fob off

That is because you dont run the fibre until you have run tubing and the tubing needs clear ducting.

If you think it is a fob off, then what do you think is the real reason for the delays?

Yes, they have tried to pull in the blown fibre tube, but have met blockages, a collapsed duct maybe. Once they have cleared said route, and pulled in the BFT, then, they will blow the fibre through it and make the relevant splices to provide a feed to the DSLAM cab.

Why are you getting so uptight when you clearly don't understand what is fully involved ?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you think it is a fob off, then what do you think is the real reason for the delays?

(facepalm)

the real reason, imo, back in June while looking for road works around my PCP, not only did I check current month, I check well into 2013,

I found planned road works for end Oct till middle of November booked under BT, running in a straight line
to the very last PCP in my area.

Now this either means OR are full of BS, or LENCO are full of BS and knew full well back in june they planned to finish work in NOV!

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you think it is a fob off, then what do you think is the real reason for the delays?

(facepalm)

the real reason, imo, back in June while looking for road works around my PCP, not only did I check current month, I check well into 2013,

I found planned road works for end Oct till middle of November booked under BT, running in a straight line
to the very last PCP in my area.

Now this either means OR are full of BS, or LENCO are full of BS and knew full well back in june they planned to finish work in NOV!

So what...

In reply to a post by FRS_Plunderer:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you think it is a fob off, then what do you think is the real reason for the delays?

(facepalm)

the real reason, imo, back in June while looking for road works around my PCP, not only did I check current month, I check well into 2013,

I found planned road works for end Oct till middle of November booked under BT, running in a straight line
to the very last PCP in my area.

Now this either means OR are full of BS, or LENCO are full of BS and knew full well back in june they planned to finish work in NOV!

So what...

why lie tho?

go live June, why fail June, July Aug Sep, Oct Nov, why lie?


bottom line is someone is full of BS

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 23:14:44)

why assume they are lying, probably got loads of requests for mundane info all the time, gave you the on they thought to be correct.

bottom line: life's too short.

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 23:22:55)

In reply to a post by FRS_Plunderer:

why assume they are lying, probably got loads of requests for mundane info all the time, gave you the on they thought to be correct.

bottom line: life's too short.

I assume, based on factual booked in road works

June is a long time ago, have you checked since to see if any new requests have gone in.

Only three months! In a local high street British Gas (or whatever they are called) were doing works for over 6 months. BT needed to do some work in the same area but were told "No, you need to wait until they have finished and then you can start 3 months after!!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

June is a long time ago, have you checked since to see if any new requests have gone in.

I have, and being a geek if you will back in June I took a screen shot, which showed missed works at my pcp and future works, I just thought, if we are going live in June, those works in Nov must be for something else.

currently checking today, those booked works are still valid. and obv in the past few days all sept went Dec.

may not mean a lot to other people, but to me it means contractors knew back in June they wouldn't finish till Nov if that.

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

the real reason, imo, back in June while looking for road works around my PCP, not only did I check current month, I check well into 2013,

I found planned road works for end Oct till middle of November booked under BT, running in a straight line
to the very last PCP in my area.

?
Road works to start at the end of this month? So where's the delay since June? What happened before June? Did they perhaps discover the blocked duct, and this is the result?

Now this either means OR are full of BS, or LENCO are full of BS and knew full well back in june they planned to finish work in NOV!

This sounds like there's something you have missed out from your earlier posts. Or have I missed something? Everything seems to be just what is to be expected, after the blocked duct had been discovered earlier than June.

As a point of interest, why did you look into 2013 when it looked as though all the necessary roadworks were due to end later this year?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

the real reason, imo, back in June while looking for road works around my PCP, not only did I check current month, I check well into 2013,

I found planned road works for end Oct till middle of November booked under BT, running in a straight line
to the very last PCP in my area.

?
Road works to start at the end of this month? So where's the delay since June? What happened before June? Did they perhaps discover the blocked duct, and this is the result?

Now this either means OR are full of BS, or LENCO are full of BS and knew full well back in june they planned to finish work in NOV!

This sounds like there's something you have missed out from your earlier posts. Or have I missed something? Everything seems to be just what is to be expected, after the blocked duct had been discovered earlier than June.

As a point of interest, why did you look into 2013 when it looked as though all the necessary roadworks were due to end later this year?

"Road works to start at the end of this month? So where's the delay since June? What happened before June? Did they perhaps discover the blocked duct, and this is the result?"

lol blocked duct, sadly had to chase DSLAM.


"This sounds like there's something you have missed out from your earlier posts. Or have I missed something? Everything seems to be just what is to be expected, after the blocked duct had been discovered earlier than June.

As a point of interest, why did you look into 2013 when it looked as though all the necessary roadworks were due to end later this year?"

you mad? never had a blocked duct, basically spotted the contractors had planned to fail,

reason to check end 2013 cus its a simple click of a calendar that took 2 seconds to change.


sorry robert, don't mean to be cheeky

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 23:41:48)

That's a very confusing post. The full quote of my post followed by partial "quotes" in the text with in particular this one:-

lol blocked duct, sadly had to chase DSLAM

Are you saying that a blocked duct had been discovered before June, or are you deriding the suggestion? I'm afraid I completely fail to understand "sadly had to chase DSLAM" as part of that sentence.

Did you take on board this post? Running the tube for the fibre rarely needs road works.

I could help answer your questions but, seeing your previous responses to other posts, I am not going to.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's a very confusing post. The full quote of my post followed by partial "quotes" in the text with in particular this one:-

lol blocked duct, sadly had to chase DSLAM

Are you saying that a blocked duct had been discovered before June, or are you deriding the suggestion? I'm afraid I completely fail to understand "sadly had to chase DSLAM" as part of that sentence.

Did you take on board this post? Running the tube for the fibre rarely needs road works.

Hey Robert, the blocked duct chestnut only got said today from OR as Im chasing delay, to
explain, the contractor is fobbing off OR with this line IMO

couple weeks back Carrillion handed back cab to OR, after supplying power, and testing . this was confirmed on the phone by main project manager

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Oct-12 23:57:44)

In reply to a post by Yaz:

I could help answer your questions but, seeing your previous responses to other posts, I am not going to.

Yaz I don't mean to offend anyone, just frustration, sorry to anyone who reads this and feels I am out of line.

Clffs

** Cab was meant to go live in June
** Road works website in June showed a line of work from BT from Oct-Nov.
** Cab gets new date for Sept
** Cab date gets moved to Dec.

Today get opening reply about delay from OR.

OR ignore contractor planned to finish in Nov from booked Road works.

When the FTTP trials started OR stated that there were so many blocked ducts when completeing installs it took the average time for an install to 7 hours!.

This took them by surprise as they didn't expect so many, so blocked ducts, so what is the problem? It seems that it is a bigger problem than people think.

Also thereason why the roadsworks are scheducled the way they are could be nothing to do with the main duct but down to installing individulal cabinets.

In my area the cabs couldnt be put next to the existing cab they all had to go over the road which meant several weeks of road closures as each cab was done in turn.

I honestly cannot see what the problem is apart from people not havng a clue what is going on and jumping to conclusions.

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

I have, and being a geek if you will back in June I took a screen shot, which showed missed works at my pcp and future works

So they cancelled the June works when they found problems with the ducts, as would make sense rather than leaving a cabinet idle and out in the street.

It is nothing to do with the contractors. It is down to BT. THe contractors only carryout work for BT. If there are blockages encountered by the contractor they stop work and notify BT. It is then down to BT to liase with the local council and optain the required permissions assuming that BT wish to keep that cabinet in the program. THe contractor cxan do nothing until BT instruct them.

Why are you contacting this company?THey asre BT's contractor. You need to contact BT. THe contractor can do nothing until BT instruct them.

Because for the massive sum of less than £30pcm the OP is entitled to teh moon on a stick. Surely you realise that?

Post deleted by ionic

The FTTP duct blocks are a different issue, as the 7 hours is the time to do the drop to getting fibre inside a property and ducting to a property is a lot small and more prone to collapse as it is often little more than a simple tube

Also as this is a commercial rollout if the cost of clearing the ducts meant they could do two cabinets elsewhere, BT probably would.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes, they have tried to pull in the blown fibre tube, but have met blockages, a collapsed duct maybe. Once they have cleared said route, and pulled in the BFT, then, they will blow the fibre through it and make the relevant splices to provide a feed to the DSLAM cab.

Why are you getting so uptight when you clearly don't understand what is fully involved ?

why havent BT been maintaining the ducts?

In reply to a post by MHC:

Only three months! In a local high street British Gas (or whatever they are called) were doing works for over 6 months. BT needed to do some work in the same area but were told "No, you need to wait until they have finished and then you can start 3 months after!!

isnt this counter productive?

in sweden and other EU countries they got rollout costs down by having the telecoms deliberatly do their work when gas or water work was done to save time and money.

Who knows. Much of BT's underground line plant is ancient and 25 to 50 years old so is not in good condition. Probably ok unless disturbed but with the high level of gas & water works and cable TV works much of it has suffered and pulling fibre in will cause further problems

Given the general poor condition of it one would have though a general renewal program would have been put in place similar to what the water & gas companies are doing but it seems not. Pulling fibre into old and crumbling ducts with old copper cables in them as well seems to be a very short term measure

I don't see BT pulling much fibre at all, the tubing is pulled/pushed but the fibres are blown, being the delicate little creatures that they are

More used to dealing with Kevlar protected fibre

Yes it can be counter productive. It is possible to do works using the same trenches but in this case that was not possible as they were close but not in exactly the same place.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

I have, and being a geek if you will back in June I took a screen shot, which showed missed works at my pcp and future works

So they cancelled the June works when they found problems with the ducts, as would make sense rather than leaving a cabinet idle and out in the street.

No this wasn't cancelled work this was work that was booked in june, for oct/nov and was a line of work
heading all the way out to last PCP in my area

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes, they have tried to pull in the blown fibre tube, but have met blockages, a collapsed duct maybe. Once they have cleared said route, and pulled in the BFT, then, they will blow the fibre through it and make the relevant splices to provide a feed to the DSLAM cab.

Why are you getting so uptight when you clearly don't understand what is fully involved ?

why havent BT been maintaining the ducts?

Same reason VM and everyone else doesn't maintain them, prohibitively time consuming and expensive to inspect ducts constantly. The only time they get worked on is when things go wrong.

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

I have, and being a geek if you will back in June I took a screen shot, which showed missed works at my pcp and future works

So they cancelled the June works when they found problems with the ducts, as would make sense rather than leaving a cabinet idle and out in the street.

No this wasn't cancelled work this was work that was booked in june, for oct/nov and was a line of work
heading all the way out to last PCP in my area

Openreach don't book street works that far in advance unless they've a reason to, such as discovering blocked ducting and finding issues getting permission to carry out remedial work due to existing works per your original post, or having another reason for having to defer original plans back.

Most of the street works in my area appear maybe a couple of weeks before the actual cabinet appears. A whole chain of work indicates issues that've triggered that chain.

If I may say, you're ridiculously skittish, you're posting like crazy over a few months delay. There are people who've been delayed by close to 2 years for various reasons and others who've had their FTTC installs cancelled over blocked ducts. I don't see many people obsessively posting looking for the email address of the contractor. I can't say it's occurred to me to start writing to Harlequin Ltd's executives in no small part because they're not working for me, they're working for Openreach.

You've been given an explanation for current delays, whether you accept it or not things aren't going to change, and frankly given the expense Openreach will be going to to clear the blockages you're lucky you're getting FTTC at all, as I've said a number of people have seen their cabinets deferred from the current rollout altogether.

May I suggest if you consider your quite detailed response such a fob off that you write back to Openreach informing them of this. If you wish I'll be happy to show you an exchange with Openreach that is an actual fob off.

I would understand if you were unhappy about the placeholder dates, I am, but you seem a stroppy child stamping their foot and having a tantrum - not constructive.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Oct-12 14:53:53)

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

So they cancelled the June works when they found problems with the ducts, as would make sense rather than leaving a cabinet idle and out in the street.

No this wasn't cancelled work this was work that was booked in june, for oct/nov and was a line of work
heading all the way out to last PCP in my area

Openreach don't book street works that far in advance unless they've a reason to, such as discovering blocked ducting and finding issues getting permission to carry out remedial work due to existing works per your original post, or having another reason for having to defer original plans back.

Most of the street works in my area appear maybe a couple of weeks before the actual cabinet appears. A whole chain of work indicates issues that've triggered that chain.

If I may say, you're ridiculously skittish, you're posting like crazy over a few months delay. There are people who've been delayed by close to 2 years for various reasons and others who've had their FTTC installs cancelled over blocked ducts. I don't see many people obsessively posting looking for the email address of the contractor. I can't say it's occurred to me to start writing to Harlequin Ltd's executives in no small part because they're not working for me, they're working for Openreach.

You've been given an explanation for current delays, whether you accept it or not things aren't going to change, and frankly given the expense Openreach will be going to to clear the blockages you're lucky you're getting FTTC at all, as I've said a number of people have seen their cabinets deferred from the current rollout altogether.

May I suggest if you consider your quite detailed response such a fob off that you write back to Openreach informing them of this. If you wish I'll be happy to show you an exchange with Openreach that is an actual fob off.

I would understand if you were unhappy about the placeholder dates, I am, but you seem a stroppy child stamping their foot and having a tantrum - not constructive.

checkers etc stated at the beginning June, then Sept, now Dec, whats annoying me is if they were fully aware and all work booked up until Nov, then Ive just wasted months checking etc.

Then planned to fail, why not just admit failing in June?

Because to them it is just another cabinet out of the 20,000 to 40,000 they are working on, so it vanishes in sea of project planning and can get overlooked.

There have been cabinets announced, and then withdrawn from the list totally in the past when the costs upon further investigation were found to be too high.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Because to them it is just another cabinet out of the 20,000 to 40,000 they are working on, so it vanishes in sea of project planning and can get overlooked.

There have been cabinets announced, and then withdrawn from the list totally in the past when the costs upon further investigation were found to be too high.

That is the thing tho, not just my cabinet the whole exchange was planned to fail in June.

So why did you not start of with saying that, as your first post talks about your cab, not the complete exchange.

if its the exchange then more likely it is the major backhaul fibres they are having trouble with. Does the exchange already offer a WBC ADSL2+ service from BT Wholesale?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

So why did you not start of with saying that, as your first post talks about your cab, not the complete exchange.

if its the exchange then more likely it is the major backhaul fibres they are having trouble with. Does the exchange already offer a WBC ADSL2+ service from BT Wholesale?

The exchange may well be a child of a larger exchange whether it has WBC or not, indeed if it's not very large that's pretty much assured. If the entire exchange is affected then problems with backhaul to the parent exchange and the headend there would definitely explain the delay.

In reply to a post by omgFTTC:

checkers etc stated at the beginning June, then Sept, now Dec, whats annoying me is if they were fully aware and all work booked up until Nov, then Ive just wasted months checking etc.

Then planned to fail, why not just admit failing in June?

I can definitely agree that you've wasted a lot of time. I can sympathise with the frustration over their supplying different placeholder dates.

3 months notice for none emergency 3 way lights is standard streetworks timescale.

Major works (11+ days duration).

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

So why did you not start of with saying that, as your first post talks about your cab, not the complete exchange.

if its the exchange then more likely it is the major backhaul fibres they are having trouble with. Does the exchange already offer a WBC ADSL2+ service from BT Wholesale?

If they planned to delay the whole exchange does that make it any better?

the exchange does indeed offer ADSL2+ services, and AFAIA was enabled for fibre in June



ADSL status:
Enabled as of 31/05/2002
ADSL Max status:
Enabled as of 31/03/2006
SDSL status:
Not available
21CN WBC status:
Enabled
FTTC status:
RFS date set : 30/09/2012

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Oct-12 02:09:49)