Data extension installation question

Openreach engineer coming tomorrow. Currently have master from very early days ADSL engineer install with faceplate in bedroom/study, which was itself move of master from ISDN installed in box room upstairs.

Currently run a gigabit network downstairs and use wireless and homeplugs elsewhere. I know that my 200 Mbps homeplugs won't deliver the full speed of the BT infinity connection I am predicted, as the house is large and Victorian and the wiring is old.

The required new location of the router is right at the front of the house. It seems daft to run the extension back through the house when it might be easier to convert the current master to an extension and install a new master downstairs, splitting where the line enters the house. Possible?

My other question is if they decide to run a data extension. Will it be limited to 100Mbps? I don't want to be limited or require new writing and 160Mbps is already around and my router is gigabit on all ports.

From the box room and a single computer to throughout the house and centred on the living room seems to be the story of broadband. Any advice welcome.

160 Mbps is the full fibre product - i.e. true fibre optic cable into the home.

The 80 Mbps service is FTTC and re-uses the copper phone wiring. The data extension simply adds a few more metres of copper. Suspect you are confusing ethernet specifications with VDSL.

Relocating the master socket is not a normal part of the FTTC install, but running a data extension is. As the FTTC install comprises two boxes, consider having the Openreach modem next to the master socket, and then Ethernet cabling (which can run at up to Gigabit) to link it to the router (HomeHub 3 if its Infinity).

Are you saying you would like the master close to where the line enters the house? Or have I got confused?

If I have, then the answer is that the engineer will not split (star) the incoming connection before the master - wherever that ends up being sited.

The data extension kit is normally from master to modem and allows you to put the modem where you want it - up to 30m from the master. It runs at VDSL speed.

the modem has to go on te master and extensions before that are not permissible.

My suggestion would be to have the master installed at the point as near as possible to where the line enters the house. You can then do one of two things:

1. Have a 30m Data Extension installed running to where you want the modem. OR

2. Install the modem adjacent to the master and run an Ethernet connection to your router/switch.


Option1 could result in greater noise pickup and a reduced speed - given your description of the house - quite possible!

With Option2 the Modem to Router link will run at 100Mbps but that will not slow down your Gigabit network.

I have a rather tricky route from my master socket to an upstairs home office but I have both an RJ45 and gigabit ethernet running that route. Will the BT engineer be happy to use either cable?

It can be upto the Tech if he uses your cable.

When you say RJ45 - what do you mean? RJ45 is just a connector type. What is the cable? If it is Cat5e then put the modem at the master and use that to link to the router.

Neither RJ45 nor gigbit ethernet is a cable. (Though one can draw conclusions from gig ethernet ). What are the cables? Cat5 or 6 is usually acceptable.

That is a lot of good information and advice from all of you. Thank you very much. I'll talk to the Openreach engineer tomorrow. I'm quite happy for there just to be a single master without data extension located downstairs on the ground floor closest to where the line enters the house. If he won't do that, then he can have the wretched job of running what will probably be very close to a 30m data extension from the current master which will be a lot more work. Frankly, with DECT phones and mobiles, I don't really care where the phone socket is - and the only person who uses the landline is calls from/to grandparents by children.

The reason I was asking the questions was that I want to get the installation right first time, future proof the install as much as possible, maximise speed and minimize hassle for Openreach installer.

I'm using a Western Digital My Net N750 router, which is gigabit on all ports, has two USB and cost less than £60 on Amazon. So far I am very impressed. I'll provide more feedback after I've used it for a couple of weeks. I also managed to sell the Simpler Networks boxes BT kindly supplied for more than the router cost, so very happy with that.

Youview - I really don't think I'd ever pay anything like two or three hundred pounds for that user experience and content. With US Netflix and a Plex server we don't record stuff any longer - and that is the way the world is moving. Can't see YouView working, but I suppose if BT and Talk Talk install thousands and thousands of boxes it might. I am surprised how clunky it is - and not being able to suppress the Sky content is a real pain. What is YouView about if not the user interface? An Xbox for £99 from Asda is a much better investment. I nearly sold the YouView box too, but bottled at the contractual requirement to have it connected for 12 months though I doubt very much they will enforce it. The boxes are selling for just over £200 on Ebay.

So, if you sell all the stuff BT supplies you with - YouView box, SImpler Networks adapters and HH3, you'll make about £290, which reduces the price of the broadband subscription by about sixteen pounds per month over the course of the eighteen month contract. Which takes me back to a tenner a month, which is where I started a long time ago with Demon Internet in North Finchley.

I'm leaving Sky, which has been great, but I don't want to unbundle my phone too for FTTC.

Thanks once again for all the advice.

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Jan-13 13:17:53)

One is Cat5e and the other is a 'telephone' cable with (just realised I got it wrong initially) RJ11 plugs on each end.

I have successfully used the RJ11 cable for several years now but that was from the master socket to a combined modem/router

In reply to a post by MHC:

It can be upto the Tech if he uses your cable.

When you say RJ45 - what do you mean? RJ45 is just a connector type. What is the cable? If it is Cat5e then put the modem at the master and use that to link to the router.

Agreed.

To future proof and to get the best, based on your comments ...

Master as early as possible. Install modem at that point. If Profile 30 comes along which will offer 200Mbps downstream, will there be too much noise and will te data extension be suitable? Or what if FTTP is available? In either case it ill be just replace modem and use existing cabling

Then, use the Cat5e to take the modem's Ethernet output to the Router - it will easily cater for 100Mbps and if faster speeds arrive then it will cater for those too.

You could use the phone cable to take a phone extension up stairs or use it to pull Cat5e back through and give yourself a Gbit socket near the master.

Edit to add:

You could use the phone cable to put a VOIP handset downstairs ...

Edited by MHC (Mon 07-Jan-13 13:37:13)

I realise this might fit better in BT or ISP unhappiness but thought those who advised me deserved an update.

Waited in all day, appointment scheduled 13-1800 for BT Infinity 2 installation this thread refers to. Cleared furniture, no work. My daily rate is pretty substantial. No phone call about problems or delays at all, on landline or mobile. Telephone with BT, broadband with Sky.

I rang BT at 1900 - on hold until 1920. Spoke to India. No clue. Coudn't speak to anyone in the UK, nobody with a clue in India. "No we can't put you through to complaints, engineers or CEO." "I can rebook an appointment - perhaps for next week, Sir. " In the end I asked to be put through to cancellations. Guess what, that, like sales, is in the UK.

Clueless woman, quite aggressive in the UK in complaints. Checked Openreach records and the record is blank. Nada. She said if I cancelled, she didn't know if I'd go back to Sky or not. No sorry, no compensation. Broadband is still connected to Sky ADSL. All in all, about three-quarters of an hour wasted on the phone to BT - 70% hold music.

Funniest bit was that I was selected for one of those 'How happy are you with the service you received today?' surveys. I at least did not think that was a waste of time.

Questions:

1. How do I ensure that my line is not stuck in some kind of limbo?
2. Do I have to give them their equipment back (i.e. YouView box) as they gave it to me free of charge, I didn't have to pay for it and they appear to be in breach of contract bang to rights as far as I can see? I wouldn't normally be so petty, but I am really very cross.

I'm going to call Sky now.

Just spoke to Sky:

Helpful chap says he can see I still have an ADSL service with Sky but I can't place an order with them as the Openreach database shows I have Fibre with another supplier. Which, of course, I don't...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phone call from BT first thing this morning Openreach engineer appeared about 9.30 a.m.

BT Speedtest Lite (Beta) results:

74.94 Mbps up
11.86 Mbps down
38.38ms latency

Pleased.

In reply to a post by musical_uk:

Phone call from BT first thing this morning Openreach engineer appeared about 9.30 a.m.

BT Speedtest Lite (Beta) results:

74.94 Mbps up
11.86 Mbps down
38.38ms latency

Pleased.

Are you sure?

74 Down / 11 Up would be reasonable! Although I would be querying the upstream at 11 ... it sounds a little low.

Reading through various threads, trying to understand the purpose of the Data Extension Kit versus Ethernet cable.

If you can run Ethernet cable from the Openreach (and it is located at the master socket) to the router location somewhere else in the house, what is the purpose of the extension kit?

Does it extend the copper wire/VDSL transport from the master socket to the router location - and the Openreach is installed at that end close to the router?

If so, what is the value of that above just running CAT5 from a modem installed beside the master socket? Thanks

Does it extend the copper wire/VDSL transport from the master socket to the router location - and the Openreach is installed at that end close to the router?

Correct

The value - the engineer does it for you and also a common place for a master socket is in the hall where power may not be available or just plain difficult location.

By Openreach I presume you mean the modem.

The purpose of the data extension kit is so that the modem can be located elsewhere, not where the master socket is.

And the value of that is that not everybody wants the modem where the master socket is

Edit: I type too slow.....

Edited by R0NSKI (Wed 23-Jan-13 23:04:56)

A data extension kit, if fitted, will take the VDSL 'signal' from the frontplate filter on the NTE to the Openreach VDSL modem to a distance of up to 30m.

This gives the installer the option of just shifting this part rather than a shift of the NTE, this being done if the punter does not want the modem and router next to the existing NTE.

Got it, thanks