Am I fibre ready?

Hello all,

I live in a relatively new apartment which is approximately 12 years old.

There's a good wiring system installed, all of which is original & therefore behind walls/partitions & sits within flush wall sockets.

My master phone socket is in a cupboard with no power sockets available in this location. I have phone sockets (therefore I assume these to all be extensions - as they don't have a split fronted fascia?) available in all rooms. My current standard EE broadband router is connected to one of the phone sockets in the living room.

I am considering the move to fibre. My main concern is whether I need an Engineer's visit? Or can I just take delivery of a new router, plug it into the socket in the living room & away I go at super fast speeds?

It's a rented property so I can't have trailing wires, plus I don't really want to have to pay for an Engineer to install new cabling if the existing infrastructure isn't fibre capable.

I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone on here can advise on what I might need to look for before contacting the likes of BT/Sky/EE/etc...? Such as checking behind socket fascias & the like.

Also advice on best fibre providers. My current phone line rental is with BT. My standard broadband is with EE. I have a Sky HD subscription. My mobile is with EE (3G). So maybe bundling all together might be a good plan?

Thanks, The Vin.

If you order a FTTC based service, then at present there is no choice you will get an engineer visit.

What they fit is this faceplate http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ and if you want the FTTC in another room they run an extension from the faceplate.

You could wait a few months and when wires only installs comes out you could do exactly what you want, but it might be at the expense of speed and stability as extension wiring can affect FTTC a lot.

Have you checked to see if any flavour of fibre is actually available to you?
See www.dslchecker.bt.com/

It may well be that you can get FTTP instead of FTTC, in which case the installation will be completely different.

Thanks, looking like too much hassle then. If I owned the property I'd perhaps consider it.

WBC FTTC "Up to 66.9 downstream" is all listed at fibre speeds. Thanks for the pointer on this.

What hassle? The new faceplate will be useable even w/out fibre, or even w/out BB.

A more 'do-able' solution, if the NTE in the cupboard isn't used, would be to make sure you ask your chosen FTTC provider for a 'Home Wiring Solution'. The installer will bypass the existing NTE and make it the next socket along the run, possibly further than that. Simple.

Not all providers will order the Home Wiring Solution. PlusNet told me this week that they cannot provide this, and any NTE shift or re-arangement would have to be ordered separately, after they had taken over the phone line.

In reply to a post by bet_here:

Not all providers will order the Home Wiring Solution. PlusNet told me this week that they cannot provide this, and any NTE shift or re-arangement would have to be ordered separately, after they had taken over the phone line.

That's rot. I'll raise an alert to your post on the Community forums.

Hi there, really sorry you were told that - it's completely untrue. The extension kit is selectable when going through the order process on our website, or can be requested if our service is ordered over the phone, for no extra cost.

If you could advise who told you this and when I'll look into who it might have been and make sure they're aware of what's available. Please drop me a PM with the details if you're willing, thanks.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Sep-13 08:55:01)

Thanks for all the replies.
It would mean a day off work, then I'd need the Engineer to run suitable cables to all current wall sockets so that they were all capable of being fibre outlets (5 of them). With everything being set behind plaster it's a job where he'd need access to the loft (I'm in the top floor apartment) & even then he might not be able to get the new cables in the existing channels. I'm thinking this could end up quite costly.
I appreciate all the replies - thanks again.

In reply to a post by TheVin:

It would mean a day off work, then I'd need the Engineer to run suitable cables to all current wall sockets so that they were all capable of being fibre outlets (5 of them).

That is not an option. Why do you think you need that anyway? You need a single master socket to which the modem is connected. All connections after that are via Ethernet cables or, optionally, once you get beyond the router, wireless.

Edited by kasg (Tue 24-Sep-13 09:35:59)

Thanks Kevin.
I can't have the router connected to the master socket as this is in a cupboard with no power sockets available.
Based on what you've said I'd therefore need at least one of the extensions re-cabled from the master socket (one in the living room for example - where my router is currently located). I would need it to be this one as I have my TV/Sky HD Box/Media PC/Blu-Ray all connected to the router with Ethernet cables.
Having only 1 of the 5 remote sockets re-cabled would mean that I won't ever be able to re-locate my router to one of these once I've changed over to fibre broadband - is that correct?
Is the re-cabling job (assuming I have only 1 of the remote extension sockets done) chargeable? And like I say I've never seen up in the loft or the wiring channel set in the wall so have no idea whether it'll take extra cabling - so that might well be something that holds the Engineer up.

You need the Home Wiring solution (as previously discussed) to effectively move the master socket to a more convenient solution - it may not actually be moved, but it will be the new connection point for the modem. I think you might be confusing the modem and the router. It is two separate boxes. The Openreach modem stays connected to the master connection point. The router (usually supplied by the ISP) can be up to 100m away, connected via Ethernet.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Hi there, really sorry you were told that - it's completely untrue. The extension kit is selectable when going through the order process on our website, or can be requested if our service is ordered over the phone, for no extra cost.

Thanks for the reply Orbrey. Yes, I did order the Data Extension Kit, and then enquired about the Home Wiring Solution later, as I would like the master socket moved. The person I spoke to, after checking with your provisioning team told me that all you could offer was the Extension Kit.

Simon.

In reply to a post by TheVin:

Having only 1 of the 5 remote sockets re-cabled would mean that I won't ever be able to re-locate my router to one of these once I've changed over to fibre broadband - is that correct?

That is correct. Unlike ADSL the new filter is on the socket as in the pictures Andrew posted. You can't easily move this to another socket.

You actually want the modem and router at the best location to get the best speed - then think about getting the internet to where you want it, rather than moving the router.

Perhaps using power line technology (homeplugs) or wireless, or ethernet cables.

In reply to a post by bet_here:

Yes, I did order the Data Extension Kit, and then enquired about the Home Wiring Solution later, as I would like the master socket moved. The person I spoke to, after checking with your provisioning team told me that all you could offer was the Extension Kit.

I believe Home Wiring Solution is just the new name for the Data Extension Kit.

This is from a document I found on the Openreach site -

In positioning the equipment, there are various options available to achieve the end user�s requirements and these �home wiring solutions� should be openly offered if your skills and local operating procedures allow. The standard product includes:
� Install an external or internal data extension kit up to 30m from the master socket
� Move the master socket
� Change an existing voice extension socket to become the master socket
and make the original master socket simply a voice extension (make
sure you reconnect all existing extensions and leave them working)
� Or a combination of these.

So I believe the Data Extension Kit is only part of the Home Wiring Solution(s)

Simon.

A link to that document would be useful, as it's new to me.

The way that reads, you are right. However, when Openreach first announced FTTC there was no such thing as the Home Wiring Solution. So probably many ISPs have the Data Extension Kit in their order systems and have never updated its descriptive name there. What gets ordered from Openreach by their systems is however the Home Wiring Solution. The Data Extension Kit is not orderable as such.

Originally the engineer could only use the extension kit to provide the VDSL2 socket at the requested location, using a cable that plugged into the master socket. This was unsatisfactory for many customers as they still wanted a phone at the master socket. So savvy engineers started doing all sorts of things to provide a satisfactory installation for the users, and what you have quoted looks like a formalisation of what they needed to be able to do.

As what can now be ordered is a solution for the home wiring, the rename was done by Openreach, but nothing changed except the name and the rules the engineers work to. All that is supplied is the data extension kit, which sometimes isn't used.

It is very rare to see the Home Wiring Solution ever mentioned. Nearly everyone still calls it the Data Extension Kit.

Thanks RobertoS, that all seems to make sense. It's a shame Plusnet couldn't tell me any of this, and would have me arrange a second engineer visit to move the master. Never mind. I'll find out for sure Monday morning!

Simon.

If the Home Wiring Solution/Data extension kit wasn't ordered, then the engineer will probably not want to do anything except a bog standard install at the master socket. Did you PM orbrey with your details?

I didn't PM orbrey. I'll do that now.

From the support ticket;

"As discussed, unfortunately we would not be able to provide an Internal shift of your NTE socket but have included a 30 meter data extension cable."

Simon.

Which means it has been ordered, so you will be OK.

The responder to the ticket clearly doesn't know that the DEK/HWS includes the possible moving of the NTE5.

There is a caveat though. It depends on the skills of the engineer. Most Openreach ones will be fine, but Kelly's, Quinn's or the like may be less so . There've been some right cockups by them - sorted out later by pukka OR engineers.

However, when Openreach first announced FTTC there was no such thing as the Home Wiring Solution.

I don't think you are correct on this Bob, HWS has been visible on orders since it came out two and a half + years ago.

Originally the engineer could only use the extension kit to provide the VDSL2 socket at the requested location, using a cable that plugged into the master socket. This was unsatisfactory for many customers as they still wanted a phone at the master socket.

Wrong again, the data extension kit, in any form, has always allowed for phones to be plugged in wherever they were before, and it certainly doesn't stop punters using a phone at the NTE once fitted.

Did/does the plug-in version feed off the interstitial VDSL socket then? That would be my confusion. In that post I was thinking the filtering was done at the extension end - D'oh!

I think I'm right about the publicly available name though Zarjaz. If it had always been called HWS, no ISP would ever have called it Data extension kit. I believe they all did, and probably many still do.

What it was/is called on Openreach internal documents wasn't necessarily always the same thing.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 25-Sep-13 14:01:55)

BT Openreach Line Engineer's xDSL Extension Kit http://www.clarity.it/xcart/home.php?cat=250 - such an extension kit would also require a filtered faceplate on the NTE5 either using the rj45 plug or wired to the A&B terminals on the back of the filtered faceplate.

Is that the extension kit that has always been used and would allow the use of a phone at the master NTE5 via the filtered voice socket on the front of the filtered faceplate?

What it was/is called on Openreach internal documents wasn't necessarily always the same thing.

It's called HWS.

Is that the extension kit that has always been used and would allow the use of a phone at the master NTE5 via the filtered voice socket on the front of the filtered faceplate?

Basically, yes. Some of the earlier SSFP's (service specific front plates) didn't have the additional krone terminations within them to allow for the data extension kit to be terminated here rather than on an RJ11 or RJ45 straight in to the VDSL out port.

If one was using CAT5 and had a NTE5 filtered faceplate with A&B terminals on the back would there be any potential issues with the vdsl signal if one pair of wires in the CAT5 were used for filtered voice from terminals 2 and 5 on the faceplate to a dual phone and adsl extension socket?