What is a good ping time on FTTC?

Just got FTTC, and my ping times seem to be going between around 23ms up to 65/70ms.

I've got a TBB remote ping test running as well, and that also reports the odd big spike, to over 100ms.

What ping times should I be expecting?

Thanks.

It depends on a number of things like...
how close the server you are?, if you pick the same server every time?, do you have interleaving on the line?

If I ping www.bbc.co.uk then I tend to average around 16, if I ping elsewhere though it can be a lot higher than that.

Over 100ms if no one is using the net to do something seems high (unless you're pinging a server in another country), although you will tend to get the odd spike every now and again, as long as you're not getting it all the time it's not an issue.

what's your ping when you ping www.bbc.co.uk via a command prompt ??

I'm getting 5ms pinging www.bbc.co.uk;

sarah@DVR-W ~
$ ping www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.70] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.70: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.70: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.70: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.70: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.70:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 5ms, Maximum = 5ms, Average = 5ms

This is on a Zen 80/20 connection with Zen backhaul and is the best of the FTTC connections I manage. You can see the current 24hr TBB ping monitor snapshot at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8b1fce1e39f... which shows consistent sub-10ms pings to the router from the TBB box.

I would say that, in general, 10ms is a "good" ping time, but, as suggested, there are a number of variables. You will not get that low if you have interleaving, mine generally doubles when it is on, but I have been without it for several months now, which is nice.

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=53

whats good depends on where you are in the country as well as any interleaving config, I can get 15ms to the bbc which is poor for where I am.

Indeed, one of the variables I was referring to.

depends on a lot of things

i'm up in scotland and get around 18ms to bbc.

IIRC the first interleaving DLM intervention normally adds 8ms.

Thanks guys, I'll check BBC tomorrow when I'm home.

I'm still within the first 10 days, would this 'training period' affect it?

My TBB Ping monitor has been giving me those pings, as well as showing constant, minor packet loss up until today. Where as today the pings have been consistently higher, around 32ms instead of 23ms, but I noticed that the packet loss reduced.

Kasg, I see you have plusnet, can you specifically request things like interleaving to be turned off?

In reply to a post by xreyuk123:

Kasg, I see you have plusnet, can you specifically request things like interleaving to be turned off?

No, not on FTTC and not with any ISP. It is all determined by the DLM and the only way of manually resetting it is for an Openreach engineer to request it after a visit to your premises. Someone will probably come along and say that is not strictly true, but it is most people's experience.

Sounds like the DLM just increased interleaving, when this happens you'll usually see a big red spike, followed by the green stepping up.

Perhaps post a link to your ping graph.

No problem Kasg.

These are my ping graphs, my service was installed last Tuesday at around 1PM, and graphs started on Thursday.

Thursday:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8db0b14078d...

Friday:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/5e4a68274b1...

Saturday:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/f5c8ebb0110...

Today:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/c123a2ef5b8...

As you can see there was pretty much constant packet loss, a few ping spikes here and there. The packet loss start to subside, and then there was the increase in ping times, and packet loss has got even less (but is still slightly present)

Is it normal to have any packet loss at all?

I am still in the 10 day 'training' period, so I'm sure DLM is still messing around with my line. The only other strange thing is that Plusnet have told me I'm synced at 49.9/12, but I'm only seeing 37/11 on any speed tests I do.

Cheers.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 11:50:34)

In reply to a post by kasg:

Indeed, one of the variables I was referring to.

Basically leicester's traffic to london on the BT wholesale network goes north to derby and then west towards liverpool before going down to london.

A good ping time for my area is on the easynet(sky) network, 9ms to bbc.

On BT retail it gets even stranger, they round robin packets over multiple routers, and these routers are in different locations so get permanent jitter on the connection, granted its not noticeable unless looking for it, but its still the oddest thing I have seen on a isp.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 15-Jun-14 11:58:42)

The DLM took action on Saturday morning, the red spike from the top is when the modem reconnected, with more interleaving. The increased interleaving is correcting the errors, hence less red packet loss at the top.

There is no 10 day training period, basically with FTTC you get two days grace, then the DLM starts taking action depending on how many errors you have. The DLM constantly monitors the line from then onwards. It can increase or decrease interleaving, and in severe cases actually band you to a lower speed to counteract errors.

I suggest if you don't have a HG612 modem then you get one off of Ebay unlock it and monitor your connection using either HG612 Stats, or DSLStats. All information you require can be found on the Kitz forums

Thanks Ronski.

I do have a HG612 so I'll take a look at unlocking it. Can they be reverted back to normal, should anyone kick up a fuss? Or should I buy a spare.

Is that kind of packet loss I'm getting normal?

I'm pinging bbc at 32ms, where as from my parents around the corner, on their normal ADSL2+ sky connection, I can ping it at 17ms.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 13:36:10)

I'm in Broadstairs kent and get 23ms ping to BBC.co.uk

I also have some level of interleaving. I've seen a splattering of packet loss like you have before, normally interleaving along with error correction cures the majority of it. Looking at my current ping graph I do still have a few odd ping packets lost, which is nothing to be overly concerned about.

I've had FTTC for almost two years and have been active on these forums for just over two years and am not aware of any one having any problems because they unlocked their modem. It is possible to revert back to standard with a long reset should the need arise. If you wish to revert to the original firmware then you need to flash a copy of the original firmware which can be downloaded.

It would be worth unlocking and monitoring for a while, and posting the results on here or better still on Kitz, as you can post pictures. My connection is logged 24/7 ever since my connection went live back in August 2012.

A word of warning, don't constantly reboot or disconnect the modem, the DLM can interpret this as disconnection errors and take action, I have turned mine off a few times and never had problems, but if you do it in quick succession it can cause the DLM to take action.

If your only means of accessing the internet is via the HG612 then make sure you've downloaded the unlocking guide and understand it, to be honest it is pretty straightforward. Use the latest firmware from this post, if you follow the link in that post, then go into the experimental folders and use one of the two firmwares in there. The one with no BT Agent will stop all future over the air firmware updates from BT, the other one still allows BT to update the modem. Whichever one you want to use is up to you, but both use the latest firmware which was rolled out by BT last October.

Edited by R0NSKI (Sun 15-Jun-14 20:24:19)

The best ping I have heard of is 5ms to bbc (as one of the posters here has).
I agree with comments that 10ms is good.
I get 20ms ~ quite a bit more than the 11ms I got on BE ADSL2.

Several factors
1 - Do you have interleaving? If so add typically 8 to 10ms. (I don't. When I did my bbc ping was 28 to 30 ms)

2 - Where you relative to the local point of presence (not sure if that is the correct name)?
That will show up in the second hop time, 6ms already for me.

3 - Where you are in the country? It seems all BT traffic is routed out via London.
That can add a few extra ms.

4 - How sensible is the internal routing TO London.
We are in Winchester, 55 miles or so from London,
But BT routes all our traffic via Sheffield, adding around 4ms extra each hop north and back south.

Thanks for your help Ronski.

I'm in Southport, near Liverpool, before interleaving appears to be enabled I was getting 22-23ms. Now with interleaving enable it's 30-32ms.

I'll unlock my HG612 this afternoon and see what I can see. I'll feel better seeing the line statistics for myself.

I'll post back here when I've unlocked it, as I may need help seeing all the statistics correctly.

Thanks guys.

Well, I thought I had the HG612, but it looks like I have one of the ECI modems.

Is there anyway that this can be unlocked?

ECI modems can be unlocked if you know how to use a TTL Serial Cable and use a Terminal app like Tera Term Pro to get in and unlock it. I myself have an ECI/r Rev B that is unlocked and can see stats via DMT app. If you would like the ECI unlocking then I or others can offer to do it for you. But you would lose it for a few days abviously.


Easiest option is to get the HG612 though! If you are not a tinkerer then get one from ebay. They can be unlocked with ease without taking the thing apart.

One con of the HG612 can be higer error rates.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 17:19:12)

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

I've had FTTC for almost two years and have been active on these forums for just over two years and am not aware of any one having any problems because they unlocked their modem. It is possible to revert back to standard with a long reset should the need arise.

?????

My bold - since when? Or do you mean something other than a normal Factory reset?

As I remember it asbokid did include the locked version as well in his offerings. Which is surely what is needed to revert to standard?

I think I'll buy a HG612 from eBay by the sounds of things.

Out of interest, is there anyway I can find out how far I am from the cabinet?

Thanks Robertos I'll edit my post, a long reset just resets all settings not the firmware.

Put your phone number into this checker and you get the Openreach/BT Wholesale estimate for your line. Immediately above the estimates table it tells you your cabinet number.

It might be an idea to post that line (minus your number) and the table. Not the rest of the guff.

Given the cabinet number and your exchange, there are a few people here (not me) who can usually find it on google Street View and post a link back.

In reply to a post by xreyuk123:

I think I'll buy a HG612 from eBay by the sounds of things.

Out of interest, is there anyway I can find out how far I am from the cabinet?

Yes, use the wholesale number checker or full address checker to find your cabinet number. Then use the address checker to put in some chosen addresses from nearby, if you enter just a postcode into the full address checker it will give you a list of addresses, select one address and check it's the same cabinet and note the estimated speed. Then click back and select the furthest away address, make sure it's the same cabinet and check the estimated speeds. Keep doing this until you get estimates of around 80Mbps. You then know the cabinet is very close by, now switch to Google Street view and look for your cabinet.

If you also post the exchange and cabinet you are on, there are a couple of forum members who have access to the location information and they can post a google link to it's location.

Thanks guys, I'll try and figure out how far I am from the exchange. Do I just use the roads as an estimate?

I'm served by Southport exchange, Cabinet 44. It would appear our cabinet is on another street (we're only a small road) and the highest speeds anyone can get on our street is 69.9/20.

Here are my line estimates

http://cl.ly/W59v

Plusnet have said my sync speeds are currently 49.9/12, but on all the various speed tests I've not had higher than 37.5/11, still within my 'clean' estimates, but low down (also within my 'impacted' estimates). Obviously, if they've said I'm synced at that, I want to know why my throughput is low.

I haven't been able to retrieve my profile information from the BT wholesale checker, I'm assuming because it's such a new line, that the information might not be on there yet. I do know that their site is sketchy at giving information at best anyway.

I'll see if I can get a HG612 on eBay just to get my line stats.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 21:16:01)

In your Member Centre >> Connection settings >> High-speed Broadband. What is your Current line speed?

Run the BT Wholesale Performance Test, ignoring all the red instructions. Make a note of the results, then click the Further Diagnostics at the bottom. That will ask for your phone number, so let's hope it recognises it there.

Please copy and paste the full contents of both the down and up results text boxes. We don't need the graphics or verbiage.

1. Best Effort Test:

Download Speed : 32.99 Mbps

2. Upstream Test:

Upload Speed : 2.7 Mbps


Your speed test has completed and the results are shown above, however during the test an error occurred while trying to retrieve additional details regarding your service. As a result we are unable to determine if the speed you received during the test is acceptable for your service. Please re-run the test if you require this additional information.

I must have run this speed test nearly 20 times, and I'm yet to be given my line profile information. I have had better upload speeds than that too.

The Plusnet website says my download speed is 40Mbps, their staff on the forum said I'm synced at 49.9/12. I'm on their £19.99 p/m plan, so as I understand it should be on 80/20.

Thanks for your help

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 21:58:42)

In reply to a post by xreyuk123:

The Plusnet website says my download speed is 40Mbps, their staff on the forum said I'm synced at 49.9/12. I'm on their £19.99 p/m plan, so as I understand it should be on 80/20.

Tell them about the Current line speed. They should have looked at that and fixed it. On a 49.9Mbps sync it should be 48.2Mbps.

What went wrong with the upstream? IIRC you said you were getting 11Mbps. Are you speed-testing wirelessly? That is prone to all sorts of local mess-ups.

That was wired.

I think that was a browser issue, because I did it in a different browser afterwards and the upload speed was back up.

In reply to a post by xreyuk123:

Thanks guys, I'll try and figure out how far I am from the exchange. Do I just use the roads as an estimate?

I forgot to say - distance from the exchange is irrelevant. It is distance from the FTTC cabinet via the PCP (phone) cabinet that matters.

No problem.

I've tried running the test again, and here are the results. Again I can't seem to be able to get my IP Profile information. Again, this was the good browser, so there's evidently a problem with my upload speed too.

1. Best Effort Test:

Download Speed : 36.37 Mbps

2. Upstream Test:

Upload Speed : 2.62 Mbps


Your speed test has completed and the results are shown above, however during the test an error occurred while trying to retrieve additional details regarding your service. As a result we are unable to determine if the speed you received during the test is acceptable for your service. Please re-run the test if you require this additional information.

My TBB Ping graph has been pretty bad tonight, but I was downloading stuff constantly from 8PM up until about 10PM. The ping has dropped lower though, from 32ms to about 24ms.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/06b89dffb48...

It's a short graph, which is due to me having some electrical work done earlier today, which mean the modem was off, and has been resented around 4-6PM.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 22:18:36)

There's been a bit of stuff about several users not being able to get to the Further Diagnostics recently. But take my word for it about what the Current line speed should be for a 49.9Mbps sync.

However if the modem has been off, it's probable the 49.9Mbps is no longer correct. The Current line speed may reflect the new reality.

I would ask them to check the sync, IP Profile and Current line speed.

Thanks Roberto, I'll ask them to do that.

It's a shame that when I go back to my parents, that I'm actually browsing quicker on an ADSL2+ connection, and have half the ping time (however I know that connection isn't interleaved).

The current line speed has been set at 40Mbps since the second day, and has never changed. So it was at 40Mbps, even when the staff told me it was 49.9Mbps. However I understand that could have changed, the resync was what actually improved my ping times.

I've also seen a couple of customers on the Plusnet forum saying they've been set on 40/10 Plusnet's end, despite being on the unlimited package, which is supposed to be 80/20.

Edited by deleted (Sun 15-Jun-14 23:36:20)

The upstream speed of 11Mbps shows you are on 80/20, as does the 49.9. However it looks as though the Current line speed was incorrectly set at the start.

The ones you have seen would have had estimates below 40Mbps, so were provisioned on 40/10 but unlimited allowance. A bad move by Plusnet.

No problem. I'll ask them tomorrow if there is anything that can be done. From what I've seen on the forums, my details may take up to 14 days to show correctly on the BT Wholesale Speedtester anyway.

Thanks for all your help, I'll let you know what they do

Edited by deleted (Mon 16-Jun-14 00:02:58)

Hi,

Plusnet have adjusted some things today. They said after the resync for the power off, I'm now running at 43.4/10.9 with a current speed of 41.8Mbps on the Plusnet website. They said they'd had the profile set at 40Mbps their end.

It appears that the resync caused interleaving to be turned off, as the ping times went back to around 20ms, however, this morning I can see from my graph that interleaving has kicked in again. There was no packet loss shown on the ping graph, but I suppose the circuit could still be running errors?

It's my ping times that are annoying me, because my browsing expeirence is slower than around the corner at the parents, which has a 13-16ms ping to bbc on ADSL2+.

Here is my graph.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/42ac8c8f06d...

Does DLM ever take interleaving off, or force resyncs to a higher speed, or once DLM has set parameters is that it?

Edited by deleted (Mon 16-Jun-14 12:01:55)

Does DLM ever take interleaving off, or force resyncs to a higher speed

It can happen, and has happend on my line a couple of times (when DLM intervened due to a physical fault on the line)

DLM watches the error rate on the line, although strictly it watches the "ES" count (errored second), and calculates an "MTBE" value over 24 hours (mean time between errors). Errors cause packets to be thrown away - causing packet loss on the ping graphs, or causing retransmission of packets on a download (which also makes the download appear slightly slower).

If the ES value gets too high over 24 hours, DLM intervenes, or increases the intervention. If the ES value gets "too low", then it reduces intervention, or removes it. Expect increased intervention to occur after 1 day of errors, but only expect a reduction to happen after 1-4 weeks of reduced errors.

The first step of intervention is almost always to turn on FEC (forward error correction), with the aim that this will reduce the error rate. Depending on the level of intervention, FEC alone can add an overhead of anywhere between 10% and 30% of your line's bandwidth - so you can usually count on a reduction in headline sync speed (and all download speeds) of around 20%.

(You can get less of a drop in speed when adding FEC, but only if your line is capable of more than the package speed; an 80/20 line might not lose any speed at all if it is so short that it is capable of 100/30)

However, FEC alone isn't effective enough against noise on the line - so DLM always turns on interleaving too; it is the combined effect of FEC and interleaving that works best at coping with errors. When interleaving is turned on, it adds latency to your connection - and the default amount (for downstream interleaving) is 8ms.

If your line turns out to be bad upstream, and interleaving needs to be added there too, the combined delay usually ends up around 12ms.

So...
DLM *might* remove intervention if whatever causes your packet loss goes away. But I wouldn't expect it to. If your error rate isn't reduced enough, it could turn the intervention up higher.

In reply to a post by xreyuk123:

It appears that the resync caused interleaving to be turned off, as the ping times went back to around 20ms, however, this morning I can see from my graph that interleaving has kicked in again.

I experienced the same thing at my previous home, but with more noticeable errors.

On first connection (on the then-available 40/2 package), I got a 40/2 sync but also got about 4% packet loss. This packet loss was visible on the ping graphs, but also dropped my download speeds by about 10%.

Two days later, DLM intervened. The sync speed dropped by 3Mbps, the errors disappeared, the ping graphs showed the added latency. But noticeably, the download speed didn't change.

1st install: http://postimg.org/image/vojahjizn/
DLM intervention: http://postimg.org/image/rgoi8shk3/

My line was reset after another couple of days, to adjust my upstream speeds to 40/10 (this was before the days of 80/20). That also reset DLM, so I got to see the same process a second time.

That line stayed susceptible to the same errors throughout its life, at least until the frequency bands were shifted around in preparation for 80/20. That shift gave my line enough breathing space to achieve 40/10 without DLM intervention.

There was no packet loss shown on the ping graph, but I suppose the circuit could still be running errors?

Oh yes.

My current line is running without DLM intervention, but still regularly shows around 8000 CRC errors per day and about 700 ES's per day. Each of those 8000 CRC's could show as a dropped packet in the ping graph, but they usually don't. My ping graphs may (on very close inspection) show 4 or 5 red pixels. Almost invisible...

Both lines that I have at home and at work have fluctuated between no interleaving, and varying levels of interleaving. One runs about 36 to 40 sync, the other about 42 to 47. I don't really notice any problems browsing with things being pretty fast really.

Thanks WWWombat.

Looking at my latest graph, and what you're saying, I'm surprised DLM intervened. I had some very minor packet loss, but then ran for ~8 hours without any lost packets. I've had no where near as many lost packets as your graphs.

I did have that period of disconnection, but I'm assuming DLM knows the difference between erroring and not in sync?

Here is the latest graph, would you have expected DLM to intervene here? I can see barely any packet loss, yet DLM enabled interleaving.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/42ac8c8f06d...

It will take interleaving off (and force a resync in the process) if the line is in green status for a long enough period of time. To be in green status the line has to have error rates below a determined threshold, that threshold depends on which DLM profile the line is on.

For a first offense (first time line interleaved) the amount of time required for DLM to remove interleaving is usually low, probably 1 week or less, but if it happens repeatedly then it will wait longer before removing.

On my line I have been interleaved I think 3-4 times now and each time DLM put me back without engineer intervention.

However when I got banded the first time, it stuck forever, I was banded at 74mbit all the way until the openreach support team reset my DLM. (yes there is a support team usually they dont contact end users tho). I did also get banded more recently earlier this year at lower speeds and DLM removed that by itself, but only upto that 74mbit banding.

Thanks guys.

Speeds are a little better but still not at the sync, and the ping times have gone higher.

I'll have to keep on at Plusnet.

Edited by deleted (Mon 16-Jun-14 17:18:37)

What do you get pinging the Beeb?

C:\Users\Bob>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.103] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.103: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.103: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.103: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.103: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.103:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 14ms

MacBook:~ alex$ ping bbc.co.uk
PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.18): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=0 ttl=55 time=35.804 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=35.866 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=38.290 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=35.895 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=37.673 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=5 ttl=55 time=37.764 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=6 ttl=55 time=36.219 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=7 ttl=55 time=37.981 ms
^C
--- bbc.co.uk ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 8 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 35.804/36.937/38.290/1.011 ms

Looking at my latest graph, and what you're saying, I'm surprised DLM intervened. I had some very minor packet loss, but then ran for ~8 hours without any lost packets. I've had no where near as many lost packets as your graphs.

Don't use my graphs as a way of showing the *minimum* effect needed for DLM to intervene. Those effects were really pretty bad.

Here is the latest graph, would you have expected DLM to intervene here?

You can't tell enough from the graphs to decide whether DLM should intervene: The ping graphs can only show packet loss when it gets as high as 1% (1 in 100), while DLM is probably monitoring for failure rates more like 1 in 5,000 (for DLM to increase intervention) or 1 in 100,000 (to decrease intervention).

The ping monitor only sends 1 small packet every second, while your connection is capable of passing hundreds of CRC-checked blocks every second. DLM monitors all of those blocks, even when they don't contain end-user data - so it knows the state of your line hundreds of times better than can be seen by a once-per-second ping packet.

Here are some example numbers...

Plusnet has a page describing the line error-checking procedures that go on; follow that link, and looks for a section on "Indicative line quality".

NB 1: The principle probably applies to all kinds of broadband, but it isn't clear that those exact numbers apply to DLM for FTTC. Openreach DLM is different from BT-Wholesale's.

NB 2: ISPs can order different DLM thresholds to be applied, such as "standard", "stable" and "super-stable". A "super-stable" line will allow fewer errors than a "standard" one. The figures in the link probably apply to one of these settings, but not to all three.

You can see the thinking on that page: an MTBE of less than 10 seconds would trigger DLM to intervene. As there are 86,400 seconds in a day, an ES value higher than 8,640 would be enough to trigger that. At worst, that ES level could be caused by as little as 8,640 CRC errors in 8,640 separate seconds.

My modem statistics suggest that it transfers CRC blocks at a rate of 604 per second, which amounts to 52 million per day. In the worst case, if 8,640 of these were faulty, DLM would intervene - which makes for an error rate of 1 in 6000.

Thankfully, while I do get around 8000 CRC's per day, I only get around 700 ES's per day. Errors do seem to come concentrated.

Looking back at the Plusnet figures, once DLM has intervened, the MTBE has to increase to over 420 seconds in order for DLM to de-intervene. That would be an ES value lower than 205 in a day. In the worst case, that would require an error rate of around 1 in 250,000 or better.

The ping graphs only give a hint that something might be wrong.

Getting hold of the full line statistics are needed to start to get to the bottom of things, such as from an unlocked HG612. And we, joe public, are still only guessing at what really goes on.

Thanks, really appreciate that explanation

Suppose I should get a HG612 to look at some line stats if Plusnet can't give me some better details.

Does anyone know the difference between the HG612 v2 and HG612 3B?

Thanks again

TBH I know there is a 2B version and a 3B version (not sure which the v2 version is)

but either way you really want the 3B version as the 2B version was prown to faulty power issues.

Thanks I'll look for that.

Generally similar to non-FTTC: 11 ms Fast Path, 22 ms Interleaved; going to bbc.co.uk

Thanks.

My pings have increased again, now averaging around 42ms. Getting a bit high.

Edited by deleted (Mon 16-Jun-14 23:35:49)

How do you tell where BT are routing you?

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

How do you tell where BT are routing you?

You can't tell for sure, but tracert gives a pretty good idea.

In the tracert below you will see a jump from 7 to 11 between steps 4 and 5, and another jump from 11 to 16 between 8 and 9.
The figures indicate that machines 5..8 are close to each other, but somewhat remote from machines 4 and 9.
The '.sf' in the name of machine 8 suggests Sheffield; and others have talked about significant BT presence there.

Tracert interpretation is tricky because the numbers are not always very accurate.
You often see values for a machine A some way down the route as higher than for a machine B further down the route.
In that case you can assume that A is just slow at responding to tracert requests.
I have often seen this for the first ealing machine, though in this particular tracert the figures look pretty clean.

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     6 ms     5 ms     6 ms  172.16.14.14
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  213.120.158.173
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  212.140.206.82
  6    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  217.41.169.223
  7    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  217.41.169.109
  8    12 ms    10 ms    11 ms  acc2-xe-5-2-2.sf.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.251.247]
  9    18 ms    21 ms    16 ms  core1-te0-0-0-7.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.251.33]
 10    17 ms    16 ms    17 ms  peer2-xe2-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.254.106]
 11    22 ms    24 ms    21 ms  194.74.65.42
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13    21 ms    20 ms    20 ms  ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.93]
 14    21 ms    26 ms    22 ms  132.185.255.165
 15    19 ms    21 ms    21 ms  fmt-vip133.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.104]

You seem to have rather more hops than I do:

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.2]
  2     9 ms    19 ms     9 ms  lo0-central10.pcl-ag05.plus.net [195.166.128.186]
  3     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.176]
  4     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  xe-1-2-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.208]
  5    37 ms    10 ms    10 ms  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
  6    13 ms    13 ms    10 ms  kingston-gw.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.6]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    12 ms    11 ms    12 ms  ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.93]
  9    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  132.185.255.165
 10    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  fmt-vip132.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.103]

Trace complete.

Sadly, yes. I do have rather more hops than ideal.

On your side, almost all your latency is in that first hop.
It looks as if you either have mild interleaving, or are quite a long way from your first point of presence (or concentrator or whatever it is called)

Edited by StephenTodd (Tue 17-Jun-14 13:57:00)

So my HG612 has arrived from eBay and I've unlocked it. I had to leave the house as I'm away tonight. I did take some router stats but the windows were lost when I opened my laptop after arriving at my destination, so I'll post some tomorrow.

My first question however, is can the HG612 somehow increase ping times from my devices? My router and devices were all pinging at 21ms. Now, if I ping directly from the router I'm seeing 21ms, but from my devices, I'm seeing 5-6ms higher, and nothing has changed on the router.

Thanks guys.

that wont be due to the hg.

Thanks, no problem.

Here's the stats anyway, how does this look to you guys? (I've also posted this at Kitz)

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 12087 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51204 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43225 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2644)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3408)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 12087 kbps 51204 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 7.0 dBm 12.6 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 6.9 35.5 53.5 N/A N/A 16.8 43.6 67.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.9 34.6 51.9 N/A N/A 25.0 43.2 68.6
SNR Margin(dB): 6.0 6.1 6.1 N/A N/A 6.9 6.9 6.9
TX Power(dBm): 0.0 -7.4 5.6 N/A N/A 9.9 7.8 3.8
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 12080 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51204 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43225 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.9 6.1
Attn(dB): 22.1 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 7.0
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 58
B: 51 237
M: 1 1
T: 64 33
R: 12 16
S: 0.0383 0.6297
L: 13376 3227
D: 845 1
I: 64 127
N: 64 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 28076340 186790
OHFErr: 99 86
RS: 2892472767 512583
RSCorr: 173669247 1238
RSUnCorr: 4616 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 1032 0
OCD: 37 0
LCD: 37 0
Total Cells: 1444066954 0
Data Cells: 5740135 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 27 90
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
AS: 69050

Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 2.45 10.43
OR: 78.07 49.08
AgR: 43302.84 12047.83

Bitswap: 33243/33243 12011/12011

My BT profile according to the BT Wholesale speed test is 41.66Mbps, Plusnet have got me set at 42Mb for some reason. When doing speed tests I'm seeing between 39Mbps and 40.5Mbps down, and pretty much bang on 10Mbps up.

Thanks guys.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Jun-14 18:03:33)