How does FTTP connect up at the premises?

Trying to get my head around how FTTP is actually connected up at the premises.

My understanding so far is that a CSP is attached to the outside of the house?
That would suggest a terminated wire is brought into the property to which a modem is connected but the modem has to be a dedicated ONT FTTP modem?
If that is correct there would be no "one box" combined modem/router available?

Does the connection have to come in next to the present master socket where in my case no power sockets are available.

Again which ISP's actually provide connection to a FTTP service, so far I have only come across BT and their site is not very forthcoming about what is available.
Having learnt I am down to one day (hopefully) get FTTP roadworks.org has notice of duct laying a short distance from my property putting in Ductoverlays-civilsoverlay I am keen to know what is involved.

Edited by Jax2 (Wed 25-Jun-14 20:15:40)

They connect another short piece of fibre to the ONT and you connect that to an Ethernet router. No one box solution available.

ClaraNet
PlusNet but maybe not now as trial is over

I have been lucky enough to have two native FTTP installs recently, one in a house, one in a flat.

In the house, the install was done in two parts, external and internal. In the external phase, the engineer attached a small box to the outside of the house near the incoming underground feed. I think this is the splice point? I don't know how long this took and I didn't need to be home for it.

For the internal phase, he brought the fibre through the wall from the box, attached the ONT (large white box visually similar to old FTTC modems) and the BBU (tall thin battery backup box). He then modified the existing NTE5 with a Fibre <> Copper switch at the top and wired the incoming feed on the NTE5 to a socket on the ONT. The internal installation only takes about an hour when done like this. I think it does need to be done next to your existing NTE5 if your phone line is to be converted to fibre and you want your extension points to work.

For my new build flat, the whole installation was done in one go - the fibre was behind the wall in the utility cupboard, the engineer took it out and created the small grey box again, followed by the ONT, BBU and NTE5 modification, and then half an hour's work downstairs in the building's communications room. This took over three hours.

I'm not sure who trains the FTTP engineers how to install in each property when they're all so different, but both engineers were very knowledgeable and helpful.

Re ISPs. it is still only BT Retail out of the mainstream group and while they still sell Infinity 1 and 2 on FTTP, they have almost completely backed off marketing the Infinity 3 and 4 (200 and 300 Mbps) FTTP only products. They show up if you put "fttp=yes" in the URL like this: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broad...

Also note that their availability checker is currently broken for FTTP addresses and has been for over a month - you get a small box saying "BT Services available at x" but then no options appear below it.

The other mainstream ISPs will all tell you that you are "not in a fibre area" if you check your details - in my block, one can get 300Mb FTTP from BT or <3Mb ADSL2+ from the other major ISPs and based on the list of wireless access points I can see, most people don't know that the former is available or don't care...

I've tried to find another address checker on a smaller ISP which will tell me that they will offer me FTTP, but they either don't mention it or insist on a phone number, which you usually won't have with FTTP.

Thanks very much both of you, much clearer now.
Sounds that nearer the time I had better organize a pair of power sockets near the master socket so that is very useful to know.

In my case the copper cable is armoured and there is no ducting. Therefore the fibre will be totally independent of the copper and will not be installed close to the existing master socket, that was probably installed in the 70s when the house was built.

Andrew, what makes you think that the PlusNet FTTP trial is over? They are still discussing it on their forums.

My property has no ducting, the phone line comes in via an overhead wire so it sounds like the fibre could be bought in independently?
My phone line comes out of a chamber at the foot of a pole on the other side of the road and hence up the divide (hedge) between my neighbours drive and mine via a couple more poles (long 100 metre plus drives) then overhead across my garden so I have presumed they would run the fibre cable along the same route. Makes sense to me anyway!

There are FTTP connections run from poles. A couple of people have posted photos of theirs.

Where there is FTTP to houses round here server by a pole the fibre is connected to a manifold at the top of the pole. Individual houses are then fed from the manifold. In some cases the fibre is wrapped around the copper cable and in other cases the have run the fibre separately to the copper from the top of the pole. In either case the fibre can enter the house independently to the copper.

Thanks again everybody.

They still signing people up to it then?

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/ has some pole mounted stuff

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/

Being shown off in Milton Keynes

Well, I signed up to the trial in late March this year and would have been deployed until the saga with the excess construction charges forced me to try BT Retail instead. If the installation cost for the ducting is eventually picked up by Openreach then I would still like to stay with PlusNet and nothing that they have said to me suggests that this would not still be an option.

You can have the ONTE where you wish, up to 30m from the splice point, as you have noted, there ought to be a ready power supply nearby. A cable running the FVA voice wiring can be taken back to the existing NTE.

Thanks.
So, to try and get this straight in my head, it does not matter that much where they put the external CSP provided that it is within 30 metres of where I want the internal ONT?
I presume they would be happy to run an external cable round the outside of the house to the point where the cable would enter the house as long it is within a maximum of 30 metres?
I am guessing it would be better to be present when they fit the CSP so that could be best positioned regards to where the ONT will be? Seeing they do not inform you when that first visit is going to take place that could be awkward.

Edited by Jax2 (Fri 27-Jun-14 23:03:58)

We (Merula) offer and have several FTTP and FTTPoD customers

Depending on your situation and how the fibre is routed in your neighbourhood, it is sometimes possible to have the CSP fitted internally. This is what I will be opting for when I find the time and energy to install some conduit through my loft and down to the proposed location for my CSP.

The reason this will be possible in my case is that in my street FTTP is delivered overhead via poles. How your existing phoneline reaches your house will almost certainly be the method by which your FTTP is provided (i.e. overhead or ducted).

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I presume they would be happy to run an external cable round the outside of the house to the point where the cable would enter the house as long it is within a maximum of 30 metres?

Yes that is exactly what the Openreach engineer did when I had my FTTP installation.

There's a list of ISPs on superfastcornwall. It's not totally complete (e.g. doesn't list zen/entanet) but at least gives a few more options.

With superfastcornwall and an increasing number of bduk projects using FTTP and there being relatively few options for ISP, it would be nice if the TBB ISP search added an option to search for providers who support FTTP (and maybe also FTTPoD though that is a lot more of a niche product).

Zen and Entanet are listed in the Business suppliers, just below the Consumer list .

Oh, you're right, I didn't re-check the list when I posted the link, they weren't there last time I checked

Thanks once again.
My phone line comes in overhead so that seems to give lots of options.
Will be some time yet before anything is available but hopefully will get more info in July when the Parish Council are putting on a special meeting with a chap from the County Council team who will give a talk about the broadband roll-out in and around our village with info down to postcode level followed by a question/answer session. Knowledge before the event is very valuable as well as for the actual fitting of any fibre. One member of the Parish Council has been very proactive in all this which is good.

As I've whinged about here before, they dug up our lane and put new poles in 15 months ago and strung cable along them before Christmas but then nothing. Last week I had a newsletter from Superfast Cornwall and, on a whim, followed the checker and found that I can now order FTTP. Hoorah! (but no other publicity whatsoever, to my surprise). All signed up and due for delivery in 5 weeks. Yesterday the Openreach surveyor came round, looked at the new pole 10m from the front of the bungalow and sucked his teeth and scratched his head, not at all sure they can manage the minimum 5.5m clearance across the road. The existing pole (this side of the road) also carries power lines so they can't use it so it could be time for the JCB! Broadband cut off by tractor load of silage makes a change from the usual man with pneumatic drill, I suppose!

Interesting if slightly depressing.
The Better Broadband Suffolk website indicates first quarter 2015 for my area but the only time the site changed at all was to put us back a year from first quarter 2014. There are signs of activity on the ground like poles and bits of road being dug up but as you indicate early days yet.
If your phone line comes in overhead already then surely that must pass the 5.5 metre requirement already so why not use the same route?
They are very poor at letting people know when fibre is available. I have talked to two friends, one could already get fibre but did not know it until I told him (in the end he decided against it as he could already get 20mbs which more than meets his requirements) the other did not know whether he could or not but had assumed like many that when it became available he would automatically get upgraded to it. He would get it when available as he gets less than 2mbs but has no idea how to check which is typical of many). No wonder uptake is comparatively poor!
Hey-ho looks like it could be a long haul yet and here is me already looking at routers!

They had probably opted out from marketing emails etc from their ISP - so what did they expect?

If they cannot achieve the required clearance for an FTTP drop,then how are they achieving it with your phone line?

We currently have two drops to our house - one 43 metres and the second 45 metres in length.

They can replace the pole with one taller than standard - that is quite common and a relatively simple task.


As for dual use poles - why can they not continue to use it? They is less danger with fibre than with copper.

In reply to a post by MHC:

If they cannot achieve the required clearance for an FTTP drop,then how are they achieving it with your phone line?

They may not be.
When the minimum height restrictions came into force (I think as part of the NRSWA in the early 90's), it didn't apply retrospectively, but only to new/adjusted installations.
So if the dropwire is below 5.5m and was erected before the requirement became law, that's OK.
If it needs to be replaced or a new dropwire is needed, this has to meet the height requirements.

In reply to a post by MHC:

They can replace the pole with one taller than standard - that is quite common and a relatively simple task.

As for dual use poles - why can they not continue to use it? They is less danger with fibre than with copper.

The existance of overhead power is a complication, but not necessarily insurmountable.
Where BT shares use of power poles, the BT wires will be below the power cable with a minimum (c. 1m) gap between the two. If this means the point where BT can attach the dropwire to the pole is too low to meet the road height retrictions, another solution would be needed.
It's not impossible that BT could install their own (taller) pole, but this would likely mean that the BT dropwire would cross over the top of the power cables - which isn't usual practice.

I know most of the answers - they were really meant for the OP to use when talking with BT.

He could always find a fault with his dropwire - that would need a new pole!

I know of installations where the distance between power and phone is less than a metre and in one case = shared use pole with BT above power, to two poles then back to shared use with BT below!

In reply to a post by MHC:

If they cannot achieve the required clearance for an FTTP drop,then how are they achieving it with your phone line?

We currently have two drops to our house - one 43 metres and the second 45 metres in length.

They can replace the pole with one taller than standard - that is quite common and a relatively simple task.


As for dual use poles - why can they not continue to use it? They is less danger with fibre than with copper.

I think the point is his copper and power are supplied by a pole his side of the road, but the fibre would be expected to come from one the other side of the road, and that's the one that isn't high enough.

Why replacing that would be an issue I have no idea .

In reply to a post by zom22:

They had probably opted out from marketing emails etc from their ISP - so what did they expect?

Possibly but perhaps not. I have never had marketing emails from my ISP or any of my grown up children from theirs and have not opted out of anything. I have however had plenty of letters over the last couple of years adressed to me extolling the virtues of Infinity and inviting me to order when fibre is not available! Rather annoying making me mutter "I would if I could you idiots!"

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by MHC:

If they cannot achieve the required clearance for an FTTP drop,then how are they achieving it with your phone line?

We currently have two drops to our house - one 43 metres and the second 45 metres in length.

They can replace the pole with one taller than standard - that is quite common and a relatively simple task.


As for dual use poles - why can they not continue to use it? They is less danger with fibre than with copper.

I think the point is his copper and power are supplied by a pole his side of the road, but the fibre would be expected to come from one the other side of the road, and that's the one that isn't high enough.

Why replacing that would be an issue I have no idea .

The pole on the far side of the road is brand new (well, 15 months old) and they've already strung the black/yellow cable and put on all the boxes, etc. As is common in Cornwall, the power and phone lines here are a real rats' nest and they've had to put in a lot of poles along here to avoid sharing, not to mention going underground where HT lines cross the road. The guys who did the work seemed to think putting the whole thing underground would have been a better idea - I've not even mentioned all the trees the fibre line goes through!

It is 5.9 M for new stuff.

As for dual use poles - why can they not continue to use it? They is less danger with fibre than with copper.

Not sure about where the poster in question is, but where the power is supplied by SSE, then they will not grant a licence for the attachment of any new line plant to their poles.