Calne Cabinet 10 and E2 status

There is some confusion about the status of these two cabinets in Calne.

Cabinet 10 has been upgraded with FTTC in the BT rollout, but still there are many places which can not get an FTTC connection from Cabinet 10. And those people have no idea if they will ever get FTTC, and since Cabinet 10 has been updated by BTO, there seems little interest from Wiltshire Council to upgrade this. So how to find out from BT about the future plans for Cabinet 10?

Cabinet E2, has been upgraded by Wiltshire Council and is to go live soon. What does the E in E2 mean if anything?

There is a belief that the E2 and 10 cabinets are physically in the same location. Can anybody confirm this? And what is likely to happen to those on Cabinet 10 who are stuck on ADSL.

Also many people on Cabinet 10 are still connected using DACS, is it correct BT are obliged to remove DACS if a person asks for broadband to be connected?

Thanks for any helps or thoughts anybody can offer.

PE2 is on the county project plans.

Got an example postcode for someone cabinet 10 who cannot order FTTC? The councils are not addressing those areas unless it falls into the 2 Mbps USC funding area, which is generally being left to the end.

Exchange also has a fair bit of exchange line lines, some might see FTTP but again as it may be in the later stages of the project. So chase project teams for info.

Thank you Andrew, I think but will have to confirm that postcode SN11 9LA is on Cab 10 and unable to order FTTC.

We think Cabinet 10 is located at Quarr Barton, SN11 0EB, but I have not been able to 'see' it on Streetview as it may be in a location not visible.

I susspect E2 is/ was a pillar/scp. It's a few hundred metres from PCP 10

Junction Lickhill road/ newcroft road

Hello,

Sorry to jump on this thread but I'm just a newbie on this forum who is also suffering from the vagaries of Wiltshire Council's broadband policy!

We live in an area of Wiltshire (Castle Combe) whose cabinets have been upgraded to Fibre but seemingly the only beneficiaries are those who live relatively close to the cabinets.

We are 3.5km from a Cab 2 but have not been offered any upgrade whatsover despite being stuck on ADSL with a max of 1MB!

I noticed that Andrew had mentioned councils are leaving those outside of the USC of 2MB until the end - is this their policy?? It makes no sense that people who have existing poor services are left out until the very end yet people with already adequate services are upgraded using public funds?!!

Its not declared policy but it does seem to be the way things are going i.e. do the easy stuff first and see how much money is left and maybe just offer you a voucher for satellite broadband in a year or twos time.

There are technical solutions for telephone line based solutions, or fixed wireless or even 4G mobile but a case of money and always easy to do the big bulk and hit the key coverage milestones early.

Thanks for that Andrew. I agree that this seems to be the way they are going forward but if you read their initial pitches for BDUK funding it was communities such as ours who were currently poorly connected that would get priority.

I read one of your articles on ADSL2+ with power boosting that would have been ideal for a community such as our with a long-ish line from the FTTC cabinet. Surely a solution such as that can't be that expensive?

I just find it very disappointing (not alone I'm sure!) that they don't look at the basic solutions first to deliver an adequate service for everybody.

I suggested this and e-mailed a link to your article to our Wiltshire Online rep but unsurprisingly that was met with silence!

In reply to a post by sjlly:

Thanks for that Andrew. I agree that this seems to be the way they are going forward but if you read their initial pitches for BDUK funding it was communities such as ours who were currently poorly connected that would get priority.

I just find it very disappointing (not alone I'm sure!) that they don't look at the basic solutions first to deliver an adequate service for everybody.

From a project perspective, BT don't know the details of which cabinets are going to be upgraded until they've performed some of the survey & planning work (and even then details can change). Only then can they get an idea of which properties are going to benefit from FTTC speeds.

With the project broken down into a number of phases (some projects have as many as 10 phases), the survey & planning work for the later phases doesn't happen until a long way into the overall timescale.

But it is only at this point that anyone can say, with reasonable certainty, where the properties are that will fail to benefit from the fibre installation - and are therefore the ones to qualify for "basic" provision.

If the project starts providing "basic" service for "everyone" before the cabinet coverage is known, you'll find that the budget gets wasted (or totally blown) on 2Mb rather than on 24Mb+. At best, you'll provide 2Mb support to many properties that subsequently end up with superfast provision.

The councils want to get as many properties served by 24Mbps, and want to waste as little as possible on 2Mb provision. With those requirements, there isn't much of a different approach that can be taken.

However, with a second batch of funding coming along, councils will have to make that decision all over again: do they push the 2Mb provision to the back again, or do they just go with the existing plan, and accept that some of this will be over-provisioned with superfast speeds later? At least BT will have better survey data in time for that decision to be made.

Suffolk are the only ones to have made a decision on the phase 2 extension funding so far - and have chosen to keep the basic provision in place, accepting the potential for waste.

North Yorkshire had a similar decision, but their increase in funding was from within phase 1; they decided to push the 2Mb portion back by a year - but doing that freed up £2m that could be re-budgeted from the "basic" provision into the "superfast" provision.

I read one of your articles on ADSL2+ with power boosting that would have been ideal for a community such as our with a long-ish line from the FTTC cabinet. Surely a solution such as that can't be that expensive?

Where was that article?

There are technical problems with running a "power boost", where the lines with boosted power overly interfere with lines that aren't boosted.

Not gone to find article, but there was talk of ADSL2+ repeater in local loop, and would deal with the 8 or 16 lines in that bundle, ie. more suited to the rural environment and Ericsson had their version at a trade show way back in 2010

The thing with Openreach is they are a large firm with a long engineering heritage so things get tested and processes streamlined, which makes low volume tasks something they don't do well.

Four councils with 4G and 98% coverage on the way so they are told, spending on 2 Mbps via fixed now might be wasted if the person can suddenly get 20 Mbps or better from 4G in a years time.

Tough call for councils, as cannot be seen to waste money and based on reactions in here when estimated dates change one can also partially understand the lack of information.

Thanks Ribble

So I took a trip around that area to try and find E2.

Cabinet 10 is at the junction of Lickhill and Newcroft, see http://postimg.org/image/vqa6kouzt/ and Yes there is a large FTTC cabinet to the left of it just out of the picture.

But very curious to know where E2 is. A little way up from Cabinet 10 at the junction of Lickhill and School Road I find Cabinet 23, see http://postimg.org/image/5w029pcs3/ and the large Cabinet is numbered 23, the small green box has no number, maybe this is E2. The FTTC cabinet for 23 is across the road and not shown in the image. But that is shown on http://postimg.org/image/sprn2w17l/.

A litle further down the road again I find this old looking thing, http://postimg.org/image/6n5bxoqn5/ now maybe that is E2, and across the road I find this small FTTC cabinet http://postimg.org/image/iyi88yh2h/ and from where this picture was taken if you look at the cabinet and could see through the hedge, you would see the old cabinet form the previous link. If I were to bet I would say this was E2. Any idea how many FTTC lines this cabinet can support?

I am not served by this Cabinet at all, I am just trying to help some people in the area understand the current scenario, how to proceed and who to badger next to get better broadband.

Is it true that Wiltshire Council will not touch any lines which are served from any Cabinet BT have upgraded despite a few people still being left on ADSL1. Even though the exchange is 21CN enabled these lines are not running ADSL2+ .

96 lines when full of cards I think.

Looks like you have found E2.
It's down to the individual isp to arrange change from Adsl to ADSL 2+, its not automatic and is nothing to do with BDUK/council

I have to be honest and say I have found the communication from Wiltshire Council about their BDUK plans to be clear and forthcoming. It is very difficult to know what speeds will be obtained once FTTC is enabled at any cabinet and so they have to be careful to manage the exceptions when they send details in their emails.

Wiltshire Council are now making plans for using BDUK2 funds, the details of how that will be spent and who will be upgraded will be known in the middle of 2015, with that project lasting into 2016 and 2017.

You challenge is to find enough people in your locality to make enough noise at Wiltshire Council to show there is demand in that location that [1] it is worth spending the money on that location in a fair an proportionate manner compared to other locations and [2] that if they did not spend the money in that location that there would be many people causing negative publicity about the 'poor investment in broadband by this council'. You might call this the 'carrot and stick' approach to diplomacy.

I have an interesting little dilemma in regards to this...

I recently moved into the Bremhill area (SN11 9) and when checking for broadband speeds I was weirdly offered FTTC by Plusnet, I ordered it and the fibre line was installed.

I received very sporadic speeds between 1-2Mbps....

To cut a long painful story short I switched back to ADSL with plusnet and am now getting around 3Mbps

Fast forward to yesterday I am reading the 'Village News' and see a small article by some of the chaps writing about broadband with a tiny little PS. at the bottom that reads something along the lines of 'FTTC now possibly available in the Bremhill area'

I instantly dropped to the floor and began to sob of course.... I have checked my line with bt wholesale & Sam Knows and apparently I am connected to Cab 10 with a possible max FTTC speed of 77Mbps.

I have checked Google maps and it looks that I am around 3miles (by the road) from Cab 10.

So now I really have no idea what to do? Should I go down the FTTC route again? or just stick with my 3Mbps ADSL?

Any wisdom greatly appreciated

When you say checked your line, do you mean your exact telephone number, and a full address check also gives the same information.

Re-engineering to improve speeds i.e. move people between cabinets is done (Cornwall has seen a reasonable amount) but generally rare elsewhere, usually only happens for exchange only lines.

So I would do the checks again via the BT Wholesale checker. In short it is possible your scenario but I am sceptical

Done with my phone number and postcode

http://postimg.org/image/5112hd39p/

Good reason to believe this is wrong.

The speed estimate for other properties in the same postcode is 9 to 12 Mbps and I think even that might be optimistic, and these seem to match the speeds from cabinet E2 too and based on where they appear to be the estimates are on the optimistic side, and your previous experience suggests that to be the case.

Cabinet 10 is not covered by BDUK or Wiltshire Council, it was upgraded by BT as they decided it was worthwhile.

Cabinet E2, a 100m or so up the road from Cabinet 10, is covered by BDUK and Wiltshire Council, I believe this is now live and taking orders.

At the moment your prospects for improved broadband is in the hands of BT. And whatever plans they have.

Bremhill Parish council is only now waking up to the fact that there are going to be quite a few locations in the area where FTTC does not work well, by that I mean getting better than 10/2 speeds. A coordinated request needs to be sent to BTO and Wiltshire Council to show there is demand in this area

you need to check witrh you LA to see if it has been included under the Market test for SEP - Secondary expansion project and see if they will expect to do anything

Edited by deleted (Sat 06-Dec-14 16:12:59)

Related to that I have a question which has never been able to get a clear answer for.

If a Cabinet or Exchange has previously been upgraded by BTO does that preclude the LA, in this case Wiltshire County Council, from ever touching it with BDUK or BDUK2 funds? I am vaguely aware there maybe some EU rules which would prohibit this.

Exchange no, it is down to the precision of the mapping the councils usually work. Current round is generally cabinet based, but next round should be more precise and be indentifying postcodes that may have FTTC but are still not superfast.

That said if a county has 10% outside superfast foot print that probably means the 95% project is going to concentrate on the cabinets with no FTTC and EO clusters. The handful of under superfast but above USC on existing cabinets will probably be more dispersed and more expensive to resolve.

Only in a County that is working towards 100% Superfast will you be sure of help, but that might not be until 2017 - 2018 anyway.

In reply to a post by godsell4:

If a Cabinet or Exchange has previously been upgraded by BTO does that preclude the LA, in this case Wiltshire County Council, from ever touching it with BDUK or BDUK2 funds? I am vaguely aware there maybe some EU rules which would prohibit this.

It isn't surprising that you don't get a clear answer - because different councils apply different interpretation of the same rule.

It seems that Surrey County Council seem to apply the rule to mean that no property attached to a commercially-upgraded cabinet can have any money spent on it. This remains true, even if the property is too far from the cabinet to benefit from any VDSL2 service at all: Surrey believes the EU state aid rule means that the onus remains with the commercial rollout.

Meanwhile, Warwickshire take exactly the opposite view - that even a single property without access to a superfast service, even when already connected to an upgraded cabinet, is enough for the area to be considered NGA-white. When accumulating results into postcodes, then the postcode is considered "white" even if only a single property does not have access. And when accumulating results into maps, the area is coloured white if a single property does not have access.

To some councils, the limitation comes about because of the way they declared areas as NGA-white in the original OMR. If they followed postcode boundaries in the declaration, it seems that some feel compelled to honour that declaration.

Some counties are then altering this inflexible approach in the second round - perhaps by declaring the areas in the same way as Warwickshire. Other counties are marking some of the areas declared commercial as "at risk" and retain the ability to re-label such an area as NGA-white if the commercial rollout fails to supply.

It probably comes down to wording in the OMR's, and what the council officials (at the time) understood about the limitations of both FTTC and the commercial rollout.

@Gazzy90, would be great if you could respond to the PM I sent you. Click the My Home link you see at the top of this forum.

In a similar area, anybody have an update for Kellaways Cabinets 1 and 2? They are two new cabinets which convert a small +200 line EO only exchange to support FTTC. The work was supposed to be completed over December, not obvious what the hold up is now, maybe it is installing a power supply or maybe just waiting for the BTOpenreach site to be updated to show that FTTC is enabled and ready for ordering.

I would be grateful if somebody could tell me where Chippenham Cabinet 8 is located, using streeview I see quite a few of those 'pillar PCP' boxes in and around the SN15 3RE area.

In reply to a post by godsell4:

I would be grateful if somebody could tell me where Chippenham Cabinet 8 is located, using streeview I see quite a few of those 'pillar PCP' boxes in and around the SN15 3RE area.

Would this be it, I did loads of speed checks for postcodes that use cabinet 8, and homes nearest this point gave me the highest speeds.
And after 5 or 10 mins I then saw this: Cabinet 8 ??

Also seeing these lines on the BT DSL Checker:
Address PCP8, LONDON RD, CHIPPENHAM, SN15 3AP on Exchange CHIPPENHAM
O/S 247 LONDON ROAD, STREET SIDE DSLAM CAB NAAGGO, LONDON RD, CHIPPENHAM, SN15 3AP on Exchange CHIPPENHAM is served by Cabinet 8

Cannot see the PCP Number on the cabinet, but speeds all point to there.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 09-Feb-15 17:29:19)

Thanks Paul, good find, I missed that one as I drove my streetview virtual car down London road myself earlier this morning. Looks like BTO would want to replace that whole sorry looking thing, Cab 8 s not covered by BDUK sadly for those connected to it and BTO has not enabled it for FTTC.

Yeah, well our old one looks older LOL:
LNILC:P24 (old) which is in the middle of being moved over to the new one to this one LNILC:P24 (new)

Paul