Okehampton exchange

I'm in a part of Okehampton - EX20 1EG - that reverted to Under Review in December - having started out as available in December 2013, then shifted back in two easy steps. Is there anybody there?

Devon and Somerset still has work ongoing, so it might you've slipped from commercial to gap funded roll-out. Sorry no greater insight than that from me today.

Letters to my MP and e-mail exchanges with Openreach and - the laughingly entitled - Connecting Devon and Somerset have totally failed to come up with anything other the incredibly annoying confirmation that I would indeed be connected by Okehampton Cabinet 6 but there is nothing else that anyone's prepared to tell me other than than the implementation has been delayed yet again, apparently indefinitely. Is this information blackout typical?

CDS map says:

EX201EG
According to our records your area is either currently, or planned to be, commercially covered by a private service provider. As such we are not allowed to invest in your area under European Commission State Aid regulations. You are not part of our programme and will need to contact an internet service provider (ISP) to find out about the current status/plans for your area.

So potential BT commercial coverage sometime maybe.

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Jun-15 00:07:53)

Don't you understand that it is precisely this sort of non-infomration that is so infuriating. Is there no one who is prepared to tell me what's going on over two years after high speed broadband was supposed to be available to me?

Possibly slipped out of the commercial programme and waiting on the 95% superfast project to pick up the pieces or virgin media expansion if network is nearby.

Problem is commercial plans are always in flux and no-one will ever give a promise.

For all whoever's responsible knows, I invested in equipment two years ago to take advantage of their "promise" and it's been sitting idle while they faff around.

The information on availability is an estimate and is subject to change. If you act relying on that estimate, you accept the risk of the information changing. There are only very limited circumstances where the law gives you a cause of action based on you placing detrimental reliance on information provided outwith a contract. These circumstances do not fit the criteria, as you were never promised a fibre based service would be available by a given date.

As MrSaffron sometimes says, you should never commit to renting or buying a property based on future availability information - only what is available to order now. Obviously the commitment involved in buying equipment is much less than renting or buying property, but I personally wouldn't buy equipment for a service I couldn't order today unless I was changing equipment anyway and could choose equipment supporting later standards than I needed immediately (e.g. ADSL2+ and VDSL2 support when the current service was ADSL2+).


Being blunt about it, if you think tens of thousands of pounds of work will be done any quicker (and, for that matter, at all) because you bought equipment likely costing less than £200 two years ago, I suggest your position is unrealistic.

Indeed, the complaints to the Advertising Standards Authority and direct to Openreach from people who weren't prepared to accept the information Openreach publicised about fibre deployment was a provisional estimate is a key reason why Openreach is now very coy about future deployment plans.

Does seem bizarre that hasn't been done yet and all the rest have, any idea's on how many properties may be connected to it?

I don't think that any minor investment on my part would - or should - influence a relatively major infrastructure investment, and implementing Infinity would not involve me in any significant additional cost. And I don't need you to point that out, thank you. But I do think that BT should be open about what's happening, and I do think that BT hides behind the artificial separation between BT and Openreach - Openreach is happy to promote itself as a BT company (though why that should be looked on as an advantage I can't imagine) but BT disclaims responsibility by describing Openreach as a separate company when it suits it. Being blunt about it, the so-called updating on Infinity implementation is a farce as it has been put back in my area at least three times without BT informing those who have expressed an interest in it.

Infinity suggests you registered with BT Retail and nothing stopping them informing you that the date has slipped each time it slips, providers get given the schedules on the same equal basic by Openreach. If BT Retail were to somehow find out a specific reason and that information not be available to the other providers, then a legal team somewhere will be happy as lots of hours of work in court.

Truth be told the reality is problem like this - something (doesn't matter what) caused the cab to fall off the radar when originally in the plans, for commercial cabs as there is no missed contract penalties these are very much at the back of the list currently. For the BDUK project cabs, if there is a significant delay and other cabinets that can be delivered quickly elsewhere in the project area they will go ahead and do them.

Openreach do not care which cabinets are enabled so long as

1. Within budget
2. Contractual obligations get met

In a better world there would be more teams doing the work and spare teams on hand to deal with the cabs that hit snags and avoid ones constantly being pushed to the back of the list.

How open do we need them to be? After previous complaints about changing dates the cheapest solution was to stop talking about dates as much as possible.

If BT consider the cab to not be commercially viable then they aren't going to install an FTTC cab just because you want one. Remember BT is a commercial company and has obligations to its shareholders to obtain value for money for any investment it might make. It's possible that since first surveyed BT have discovered that the cost of providing a suitable electricity supply makes the cab unviable. There are other reasons which could lead to the same conclusion.

If that is the case, what to do? Firstly ensure that CDS is aware that BT no longer consider upgrading the cab to be commercially viable and that your location is included in the review for phase 2 BDUK. If that still draws a blank then there's nothing to stop you doing something about it yourself and that means you and your neighbours putting your hands in your pockets and paying for the upgrade yourselves. Others have done exactly that especially in those areas that don't have the benefit of BDUK funds such as in the major cities.

In reply to a post by Storm_Force:

Does seem bizarre that hasn't been done yet and all the rest have, any idea's on how many properties may be connected to it?

There appear to be 17 houses plus a block of 18 small flats. Particularly frustrating as we look over the town of Okehampton - I can see the exchange and all the houses in between, which can almost all place orders.

In reply to a post by MCM:

If BT consider the cab to not be commercially viable then they aren't going to install an FTTC cab just because you want one. Remember BT is a commercial company and has obligations to its shareholders to obtain value for money for any investment it might make. It's possible that since first surveyed BT have discovered that the cost of providing a suitable electricity supply makes the cab unviable. There are other reasons which could lead to the same conclusion.

If that is the case, what to do? Firstly ensure that CDS is aware that BT no longer consider upgrading the cab to be commercially viable and that your location is included in the review for phase 2 BDUK. If that still draws a blank then there's nothing to stop you doing something about it yourself and that means you and your neighbours putting your hands in your pockets and paying for the upgrade yourselves. Others have done exactly that especially in those areas that don't have the benefit of BDUK funds such as in the major cities.

I agree with all that but I just want BT to tell me what's going on - or to tell me anything, in fact. All CDS tells me is that it's nothing to do with them, at least until 2016. I naively assumed that BT is contracted to implement Infinity where it's technically viable - on a massive contract of this type they would take the rough with the smooth but they appear to be putting off the problem cabinets while cherry-picking the straightforward ones.

As MrSaffron says, the commercial rollout is entirely up to Openreach to spend its money add and when it chooses.

There isn't enough money in the BDUK schemes to do everything that is technically feasible. The contracts are constructed broadly on the basis of getting the maximum benefit by given deadlines. This doesn't just mean cherry picking the easy areas, as allowance is made for the fact that some areas are more expensive to cover than others. However, BDUK implementation can involve dropping an area that turns out to be more difficult to cover than originally expected, with the money going elsewhere.

The obligations Openreach have under the BDUK contracts can mean delivery resources are focused on BDUK rollout, with the remaining commercial rollout being lower priority.


Both the commercial and BDUK rollouts are planned on the basis of the best information available. There are sometimes good reasons why these plans need to be amended.

If really 35 premises then it would not be in the commercial footprint, and given targets for CDS too small for them too.

Doing some checking more like 100 to 120 premises, which is at the bottom end of those that got done commercially.

The phase 2 CDS project which might get signed in a few days may pick it up, i.e. if not considered commercial now, reasons for this are the power company quoting a price for power than made it uneconomic to enable the cabinet based on the Openreach calculations.

Thank you for this information - if my numerous attempts to get any information from BT/Openreach had resulted in half as much as this I would at least have a better understanding of what's not going on.

I'm not sure how - or if - the latest news about BT not securing the contract for the next phase of implementation affects the likelihood of anything being done here - probably another excuse for delay. By the way, my earlier guess at the number of premises on Okehampton Cabinet 6 was the number in my post code so I'm sure your correcting figure is nearer the mark.

Wonder if there is other issues? As cab 3 on my local exchange Hatherleigh was upgraded via CDAS and serves less the 100 lines.

To be clear Openreach is part of the BT group - it is completely separate form the wholesale and retail arm of the business and treats those is the same way as the other 500 service provider is works FYI BT Retail have no view of cabs any earler that sky or talk talk

Cab information is provide to all CP's at the same time how the service provider chooses to share that information is then up to the service provider

lets assume your cab is in the commercial deployment at 100 cost to bt group (to do at some time) or do I spend my resources on doing those things that are critical and where other monies are involved -- what would you do in the same situation