Openreach & BT Retail..

Our village has FTTC (paid for by the tax payer)

Trawling through the village notice boards, only BT Retail clients have been able to connect/migrate services on Netheravon 01980 xx exchange.

Openreach are messing around other third party ISP's, anyone care to guess at the legality of them clearly and undeniably prioritising their own BT Clients and holding other CP's back?

Who do we complain to?, anyone got a good Ofcom/press contact?

The Openreach interface at the hand-over point for your exchange is available to all ISPs. It is for the individual ISP to make arrangements to connect at that point (usually by ordering a cablelink product). What does your preferred ISP say about why they do not offer service?

Given most will have been trying Sky and TalkTalk who do not have LLU at your exchange this would explain why most are failing. Putting in LLU is a choice for those operators to make. The people with Sky and Virgin Media in the area (i.e. ones we've seen speed tests from will have been using what is called offnet services)

The full range of BT Wholesale based suppliers like PlusNet, EE, AAISP, Zen, IDNet and others should be available.

No nothing illegal, just LLU operators have decided your exchange is not worth installing hardware to unbundle the phone lines and compete against BT.

Have you the slightest evidence for that statement? What is far more likely is that the other ISPs haven't yet sorted out the handover point. It's very often the reason why there is a delay before FTTC is sold by other ISPs.

NOTE: EE, PlusNet etc need to do nothing at the exchange, since for BT Retail to offer the service BT Wholesale must have installed a handover and thus its available on the WBC platform at the remote exchange.

Zen do use the cable link as they have a large backhaul network of their own, but do happily use BT Wholesale at exchanges outside their network footprint.

Who do we complain to?,

You don't. Openreach have done nothing wrong.

It's up to Sky and TalkTalk to make their own arrangements, that they haven't as yet is hardly Openreach's problem who will certainly provide the necessary GEA link when requested.

In reply to a post by MCM:

You don't. Openreach have done nothing wrong.

They have, if the wording "only BT Retail clients" from the OP is correct, but it sounds like it probably isn't.

They have, if the wording "only BT Retail clients" from the OP is correct

What exactly is BTO doing that is wrong? It is Sky & TT (and Zen depending on their network) who need to enable GEA links, not BTO. Until those links are in place on BTW customers will be able to order an FTTC connection.

Does BT Retail have any clients other than end users? It's highly unlikely that the OP has spoken to anyone with authority at BTO so who exactly is it that used the phrase "BT Retail clients"? Most likely BT Retail who, like most ISPs, promote themselves over their competitors.

The OP would be well advised to have asked a more neutral question rather than just assumed some sort of conspiracy. Of course, that's the Internet all over...

In reply to a post by MCM:

What exactly is BTO doing that is wrong? It is Sky & TT (and Zen depending on their network) who need to enable GEA links, not BTO. Until those links are in place on BTW customers will be able to order an FTTC connection.

Yes, BT Wholesale, not BT Retail.

The OP would be well advised to have asked a more neutral question rather than just assumed some sort of conspiracy. Of course, that's the Internet all over...

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/STNETHR shows you which suppliers are available in your location.

As others have stated, it is the other ISP's which have decided they do not see it worthwhile to compete with BT for those 1100 phone lines.

Howdoo

Perhaps worded this poorly, situation:

1- FTTC installs for BT Retail start.
2- Despite being registered for a few third party ISP's, no word on this from non BT Retail, I find out on the village notice boards.
3- Place my order with a non-BT ISP
4- Order fails as FTTC NOT here, despite the BT checker saying it is!
5- More BT Retail clients get connected, I ask on the local forums, has ANYONE managed to get a connection on a non-BT ISP - Q Tumbleweed!
6- My order cancelled as FTTC not available.
7- Few more Retail clients connected
8- Days and days worth of delays to our order, no word of any other third party ISP being connected

And that is where we stand, at what point does the above NOT look suspicious?
Too many co-incidences for my liking.

As is stands we may get it next Friday... we shall see!

Cheers all.

And the mystery provider is?

It may be that they are reliant on TalkTalk LLU Wholesale services.

Locality: Netheravon, Salisbury, Wiltshire All Post Codes No Fibre Cabinets Found
District: Wiltshire
Country: England Post Code: SP4
20CN IPStream: ADSL
21CN WBC: None
Fibre: FTTC 1st September 2015
BT Exchange: Netheravon Exchange Code: STNETHR

Have you tried Plusnet, EE, vivaciti, IDNet, Zen, AAISP?

In reply to a post by dmcclymont:

4- Order fails as FTTC NOT here, despite the BT checker saying it is!

Which checker? This one using the phone number (if not Sky/TalkTalk) or the full address option. Do not use the pure postcode option.

As is stands we may get it next Friday... we shall see!

How - who is going to offer it then that doesn't at the moment?

In reply to a post by dparr59:

Locality: Netheravon, Salisbury, Wiltshire All Post Codes No Fibre Cabinets Found

The link to samknows given in this post says available in some areas, so where does your info come from please?

And that is where we stand, at what point does the above NOT look suspicious?

Not at all, it lacks any meaningful detail such as those ISPs who state that they are unable to supply an FTTC based connection.

Your "facts" are anything but. Have you (actually) bothered to check whether the likes of PlusNet or EE offer FTTC or not, these both use BT Wholesale just as does BT Retail. Until you check and provide details of ISPs, other than those using Sky or TalkTalk for their connectivity, that are unable to offer FTTC your post is meaningless, heavily influenced by ignorance.

Zen is more complex, it uses both BT Wholesale and GEA for connectivity, which depending on whether they have their equipment in the exchange or not. I suspect them to currently be able to provide an FTTC connection via BTR

The checkers say it is, but at the order point is was declined, Zen are brilliantly sorting it all out with Openreach and we now finally have a go live date for this Friday

The main point's were:

- It seemed to be a mystery launch, unknown to anyone but BT Retail.
- Until Friday, it seems that nobody but BT Retail has managed to make an order stick (albeit on a limited data set)

Just reeks of preferential activity to me. If I did not pay for a proactive ISP like Zen, would I have just given up and gone to BT Retail (as some seem to have!)

Is this a massive set of weird circumstances here (could be), or is there some process in play that is going very wrong!!

Just reeks of preferential activity to me.

Not at all. Please provide details of all ISPs using BTW for connectivity that were unable to offer FTTC. To date you have failed to provide a single example. Without such detail your post regrettably remains meaningless.

Putting the local public house's number and postcode into the ZEN site, FTTC is available. When I do the same with the TalkTalk site then it reports it's not available.

Which would, of course, fit with the diagnosis that ISPs which depend on TalkTalk's alone are not going to have FTTC available whilst those that make use of BTW backhaul, either exclusively or as a supplement, should be able to offer service.

I think the anonymous ISP ought to be named as it seems more likely it's a shortcoming in their systems.

But nearly all ISPs obtain their (Openreach) service through BT Wholesale. So for the likes of the ones I listed, other than Zen who sometimes don't use BTW, if orders are being declined it has to be BTW not Openreach.

Is it possible the phone numbers in question are currently LLU? That can complicate a move to non-Sky/TalkTalk FTTC.

It will not have been a mystery launch. All ISPs are told at the same time because of equivalence rules. Whether they choose to promote it or not is up to them and will, of course, depend on whether they will be prepared to offer such a service at that location.

for the avoidance of doubt all sevice provdiers are notified at the same time that cab is enabled -- it then a commercial decision for each service provdier to determine whether to offer fibre services to their customer

actuually partially funded by the Taxpayer and partially funded by BT Group as part of match funding to be precise

Cabinets 1,2, 3 and 5 on STNETHR now have FTTC available.

Cab 5 believe this is a new cab (guess for some EO areas

New cabs do confuse some providers who have databases that run off of copies of BT Wholesale data and are sometimes a few days or a week out of date.

Edited by MrSaffron (Fri 10-Apr-15 14:39:59)

Fair comments, but still by Openreach I presume, to be equal access to all.

I will hope that we get connected okay on Friday, one hopes!

It doesn't matter whether it's taxpayer funded or not. The equivalence principle applies to all Openreach products. They have to provide the same service to using the same interfaces to all.

Of course the EU also dictate that BDUK projects have to be provided on a wholesale basis under state assistance rules, but that's moot as it's already an OR duty.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

... so where does your info come from please?

I have an interest in the Wiltshire area, so I happen to know this link, and click on Netheravon.

That's fine . But the one I queried was completely negative and clearly wrong.