TTB speed Fluctuations

Hello,

I am seeing some strange drops in speed with our TTB line. Usually do about 72mbps and then we will star seeing speeds of between 9mbps to 30mbps. Any ideas? All tests done via wired connection.

http://i.imgur.com/UZpieqQ.png

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 34672 Kbps, Downstream rate = 92520 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     34672 kbps     92520 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:   -   0.9 dBm     12.5 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 4.6 14.2 19.4   N/A   N/A 7.2 16.1 23.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 4.6 13.5 18.8   N/A   N/A 9.4 15.9 23.8
SNR Margin(dB): 16.3 15.3 15.4   N/A   N/A 9.6 9.6 9.6
TX Power(dBm): -15.8 -29.1 -1.0   N/A   N/A 8.3 7.8 7.0


# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 34644 Kbps, Downstream rate = 92520 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.6 15.4
Attn(dB): 11.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 -0.9
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 239 237
M: 1 1
T: 23 42
R: 0 16
S: 0.0955 0.3781
L: 20104 5374
D: 1 1
I: 240 127
N: 240 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 590735 245678
OHFErr: 6 0
RS: 0 1723985
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 25 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 150176815 0
Data Cells: 5594729 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
AS: 975

Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 1.65 3.98
OR: 116.09 64.22
AgR: 80103.09 20063.54

Bitswap: 85/85 0/0

You rebooted the router about quarter of an hour before taking those stats. Did that make any difference?

Does it only do this at certain times of the day or always? What ISP are you with

I also see your on the Drumchapel exchange or you used that postcode as a refrence lol.

If your ISP is talktalk that exchange is congested but they wont admit it

Edited by deleted (Wed 30-Dec-15 01:53:09)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You rebooted the router about quarter of an hour before taking those stats. Did that make any difference?

That's correct. The reboot made no difference.

In reply to a post by tthom:

Does it only do this at certain times of the day or always? What ISP are you with

I also see your on the Drumchapel exchange or you used that postcode as a refrence lol.

If your ISP is talktalk that exchange is congested but they wont admit it

I have not yet noticed a pattern so I couldn't say for sure, I will certainly be running some speed tests on/off peak. The provider is TalkTalk Business and this is indeed on the Drumchapel exchange.

Also try a different router if the problem persists. Failing that get in touch with TTB network team directly (they answer emails from direct TTB customers)

[email protected]

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Also try a different router if the problem persists. Failing that get in touch with TTB network team directly (they answer emails from direct TTB customers)

[email protected]

Thanks for that I will drop them an e-mail. This is a new router (not using the talk talk one). I have the ASUS RT-AC88U connected to an Openreach modem (unlocked).

I have e-mailed TalkTalk and they have asked me to send in three traceroutes and three pings an hour apart, I have done that both peak and off-peak. It does look like this is an issue at peak time so possibly is congestion and first suggested.

What is going to be the outcome of this? I assume I am going to have to fight with TalkTalk Business to fix this? I assume I would have the same issue across all ISPs? (TalkTalk and Sky are the only LLU providers in this exchange).

My Broadband Ping

Thanks
Sam

Was it you that did the two lengthy disconnections in the middle of the night? Or was it them?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Was it you that did the two lengthy disconnections in the middle of the night? Or was it them?

It was them, I was tucked up in bed

Thanks
Sam

In reply to a post by ansam:

What is going to be the outcome of this? I assume I am going to have to fight with TalkTalk Business to fix this? I assume I would have the same issue across all ISPs? (TalkTalk and Sky are the only LLU providers in this exchange).

If its exchange congestion, Talktalk will eventually add extra backhaul capacity, however its not a matter of just flicking a switch to add extra capacity, it can take many weeks/months. Just keep hassling TTB and if things get significantly worse ask them to let you leave penalty free (if inside contract) or give you some sort of discounted service, but just be aware that moving to Sky or a BtW based ISP may just be as bad wrt exchange congestion....no ISP is immune. Here's a recent example of peak time congestion on Zen broadband using BT backhaul [shudders]
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8d70870ca15...

Hello,

Thanks, do you think BT would be suffering the same issue here or is this limited to the "3rd party" ISPs?

Thanks
Sam

The backhaul for BT Wholesale, Sky and TalkTalk will be independent of each other, so 1 can be having problems but the other two not.

The big BUT is whether the congestion is due to an upsurge in usage from people in the area, in which case it might be affected everyone

I assume those disconnections are not typical. I think it possible the problem may have been fixed. If you are getting the speed problems every day, you'll soon find out.

I am not sure if the disconnections are normal as I have only recently switched to TalkTalk Business. I will be keeping my eye on it.

Looking at your BQM again, you've had another major disconnection just after 10am. Did you do that? If not, something looks very dodgy.

(If you put the BQM link in your sig, like I have, it's easier to keep track of how things are ).

That was me this time updating router firmware.

I have put the BQM in my signature as suggested.

Still quite a lot of packet loss . So I could be wrong about the overnight ones.

No I am with bt on that exchange and get full or near enough full all hours, due to the area and talktalk back haul at that exchange being massively congested it won't be fixed for some time.

When I was with talktalk on that exchange the peak time speeds dropped to 4meg and when I called talktalk it's not on any plans to be upgraded as they don't see that's it's congested enough.

Also doing pings and traceroutes are hopeless they don't find it a problem unless it's over 60ms per hop, Oh and there speedtester is somewhat rigged so you always get a good speed I showed how bad they where with the think broadband speed test

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Jan-16 10:17:28)

Yes I am convinced this is a peak congestion issue as I go from about 72mbps between 9am - 3pm and at about 3pm I drop down to 24/32mpbs.

I've only just switched to TTB fibre and I am now thinking that I've made the mistake. I suspect as well that if I attempt to get them to let me terminate the contract that this isn't going to be easy.

Looking at my BQM I am still seeing a lot of red at the top of the graph which I have never seen before on other providers which suggests I am getting consistent packet loss, in addition to the drops in speeds.

I guess all I can do is take these graphs along with the speed tests and present my case to TalkTalk to see if I can get out of the contract and switch over to BT business (or even BT residential).

My latest speed test (26.87Mbps): http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14517...

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Jan-16 01:08:07)

Hello,

So got an e-mail from TalkTalk stating that it does look like network congestion and its being passed to their network team.

Thanks
Sam

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

no ISP is immune. Here's a recent example of peak time congestion on Zen broadband using BT backhaul [shudders]
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8d70870ca15...

Yes and it lasted 2 days , due to a major issues in one or more exchanges (Severe weather, Flooding ) in Scotland So wasn't down to your typical congestion but don't let the facts get in the way eh?

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 04-Jan-16 15:00:30)

Don't expect much.. They will get you to do pings again and traceroutes. Then unless your speed is well below estimate they won't entertain you..

Hard process it drove me mad then I got a price rise and got out but they still tried to charge me a termination fee that was another headache

In reply to a post by tthom:

Don't expect much.. They will get you to do pings again and traceroutes. Then unless your speed is well below estimate they won't entertain you..

Hard process it drove me mad then I got a price rise and got out but they still tried to charge me a termination fee that was another headache

TalkTalk have said to me in an email it looks like it's down to congestion, using their speed checker I got 2mbps and filled in my number as I understand it then records that. I am apparently waiting to hear back from their network team, however I have hinted about terminating the contract without penalty at this stage being I am only about a month or so in.

Well thats something if you got 2meg using their checker...

I was only with them a month its that exchange mate because lets be honest its a poor place and talktalk is the cheapest isp

Whilst we all want our fibre to be perfect 100% of the time there are outside forces that can prevent this. Flooding, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Apple iOS major release, Windows 10, routing issues and so on.

No ISP can control this and they aren't going to increase their infrastructure for a short term peak in demand. TalkTalk had a routing issue for 12 hours, annoying but it is what it is. Even AAISP and Zen have issues...

If the poor performance is sustained then that is a different matter. I had a similar problem with Sky at peak times but they were certain there was no congestion at the exchange or the DSLAM in the street.

Moved to Pulse8 (TalkTalk Business) and the problem disappeared.

I completely understand this but this has been ongoing since around 30th December. Almost spot on time around 3pm my speed halves, last night I used the speed checker they told me to use and it recorded 2mbps and BT wholesale recorded 10mbps a few minutes later.

So I go from 74mbps to 25/30mbps consistently and its gets worse as the night goes on.

So called TalkTalk Business cancellations and was told I need to give them 28 days to fix the issue. Both their tech via e-mail and the lady herself on the phone have said it is congestion at the exchange level. Apparently there is a meeting today to discuss a number of exchange upgrades but she is not sure if the Drumchapel exchange is one of them so I need to call back in 24 hours to find out if this is going to be fixed quickly or.....

They tried to provide a £10 discount per month since I was not getting the speed but the lady then found she couldn't apply it to the account so we left it there.

So managed to get TTB to release me from the contract, so now considering just going with BT or BT Business.

If you are reliant on it for work, I would recommend BT Business. They do have UK based 24 hour support and a rapid response time for fault resolution.

In reply to a post by ansam:

So managed to get TTB to release me from the contract, so now considering just going with BT or BT Business.

Good to hear TTB released you without penalty. I would jump to BT Business, granted they're not cheap especially for a 80/20 FTTC service with a static ip but you'll get decent UK based support & any broadband faults fixed by end of next working day. Like with most things in life you get what you pay for

Fantastic news

Placed my order with BT Business today but noticed that when I checked the order tracker it said "Delayed" I asked their live chat and according to them Cabinet 4 (Drumchapel exchange) is full so they are "trying" to find space.

You would have thought they could just switch this from connection to connection since its a migration but I assume their system doesn't allow this.

hmm checked next door number on the wholesale checker and its not indicating any capacity problems. Broadband says checks completed and engineer provisionally booked. So perhaps its the phone line thats the problem? no capacity there?

Hello,

So update. Engineer was supposed to come out today but never turned up, BT said they would contact Openreach and phone me back today but they didn't.

I am actually wondering if Openreach changed the scope of the work because an Openreach planner called me during the week and said that BT had put this through as a new line, but she could see that the line already had service. When I spoke to the guy tonight he said there where notes to say service was already active and only required switching at something or other (not sure what he said).

So I am wondering if perhaps this may still switch tonight (as no engineer is actually required) although would it still switch this late?

Thanks
Sam

What profile FTTC speeds do TalkTalk Business offer?
Guessing the lowest been 40/2, 40/10 and 40/20 been the highest?

Edited by francisuk25 (Thu 21-Jan-16 02:13:30)

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

What profile FTTC speeds do TalkTalk Business offer?
Guessing the lowest been 40/2, 40/10 and 40/20 been the highest?

I have no idea, sorry.

So second attempt this morning. Spoke to someone and they are going to "phone me back in 10 minutes". That was about 40 minutes ago.

In reply to a post by francisuk25:
What profile FTTC speeds do TalkTalk Business offer?
Guessing the lowest been 40/2, 40/10 and 40/20 been the highest?


I have no idea, sorry.

Connection - TalkTalk Business 80/20. Sync 79997/19999kbps - My BQM

Well at an informed guess they offer an 80/20 service.

The base Openreach products for FTTC are 40/2, 40/10, 55/10 and 80/20.

There has never been a 40/20 product or profile. So far as I know only Plusnet only offered such a product, which was presumably 80/20 internally slugged by them. Unless it was an Openreach trial carried out by Plusnet to assess demand before the 55/10 was introduced instead.

TalkTalk offer 40/2 and 80/20. Unless they have taken up the 55/10 which has been available from Openreach since Saturday.

So no call back to I have phoned back again and spoken to a supervisor. There seems to be some confusion that a second line is required, despite Openreach planning contacting me during the week and specifically asking me if this was just a switch or a new line.

All thats required here is an OR engineer to update the CP at the exchange. According to the guy he is going to take this up with the migration team and call me back (although I have heard that before!).

How is it so hard to get this switched over. The guy spoke to OR and he told them what needed to be done, why not just book an engineer to go to the exchange and do it.

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

What profile FTTC speeds do TalkTalk Business offer?
Guessing the lowest been 40/2, 40/10 and 40/20 been the highest?

TalkTalk Business offer only the up to 80/20 meg service in their FTTC range.

But they do also offer 80/20 on their non-business range.

Looking into it on there website, The first package they offer is up to 76 Mbps downstream and up to 20 Mbps upstream cant really see another speed profile.

Yes, I agree. However the bulk of my post was addressing:-

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

Guessing the lowest been 40/2, 40/10 and 40/20 been the highest?

Particularly the 40/20.

Whether TTB have offered either 40Mbps variant I don't know. Possibly they did before OR introduced 80/20.

I'm with Tallk Talk, and on a relatively non-congested exchange. Their cheaper, non-fibre, ADSL2+ product does everything I want because it syncs at maximum speed. However, if I ever need to download something quickly at maximum speed at, say, 5pm, then it appears that I'm throttled to around 2/3/4Mbits downstream. So most of the time I either wait or put up with it, depending on how quickly I need it; but TT definitely seem to do some "peak-time throttling", for whatever reason. I'd be an awful lot more angry if I was paying for a "Business" connection, though.

LLU services like TT might be a bit behind the game, but increasingly, ISPs seem to want people to switch to fibre and stay there. My parents have BT Retail fibre, because they were offered a one-year free "Upgrade to fibre" deal about 3 years ago. Every time the offer comes to its expiration date my dad has phoned up and said "No, that's fine, put me back to ADSL2+ then.", and they've transferred him to a different department who awkwardly explain that they can extend the non-inflated price for another year, based on him happily saying that he'll have it put back to ADSL2+ and/or leave BT as an ISP. Last year he actually asked the BT phone guy "Why have you extended my half-price discount, when the first bloke said he could only get a quid off if I begged?" and the man answered honestly, by saying "Because you phoned us up and challenged us, and stayed on the line".

I think it's a bit different with LLU ISPs though, isn't it, they haven't got the go-ahead from their bosses to try to ensure as many people as possible remain on fibre or convert to it. TT have never made a personal call to me with a view to getting me to switch to fibre, all they do is post non-named junk mail through my door every other week and call me up offering a "completely free YouView box", which all 3 times I've accepted has turned out not to be free, so I've sent it back at their expense.

TalkTalk: If it's fine, accept the low price and hope to never have contact with them. If it isn't fine, and/or you have to make contact with them about a serious issue, change ISP.

Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jan-16 23:08:30)

In reply to a post by ansam:

So no call back to I have phoned back again and spoken to a supervisor. There seems to be some confusion that a second line is required, despite Openreach planning contacting me during the week and specifically asking me if this was just a switch or a new line.

All thats required here is an OR engineer to update the CP at the exchange. According to the guy he is going to take this up with the migration team and call me back (although I have heard that before!).

How is it so hard to get this switched over. The guy spoke to OR and he told them what needed to be done, why not just book an engineer to go to the exchange and do it.

So I escalated this in BT up to Business Complaints. The problem it turns out to be is that OR believe this was a new line installation rather than just a simple CP migration. In the end OR said that order would need to be cancelled and a new order raised for a migration instead (that finally happened on Friday). I also have the top people at OR on this.

Between the top teams at both BT and OR it taken 2 days to get to this stage of cancelling and re-ordering. Of course now we have hit the weekend thats put things on hold so I will update what happens on Monday, BT have to e-mail the order details to the people at OR and I *may* get activated on Monday.

Original activation date was 20th January.

Latest update today is that in order to get this done BT have ordered a new migration from TalkTalk Business, this has been escalated by OR to Wednesday so the line will switch then. Problem is of course I will loose the broadband, once the line switches Wednesday a new order for the broadband will be put through and then that activated, hopefully since BT is talking to the director of services office that the broadband will be re-activated quickly again.

I wonder on the state of TBB. My connection on wmmal is shows much the same issues as those on this thread. Packet loss is however largely confined to evening when at times the connection is unusable. I have sent the tracerts and pings twice and done the TTB speed tests for them. The connection itself is running just fine with low error rates on fast path at all times of day and with no resyncs.

Now after a few week TTB want to send an engineer to check my connection. The reason given is "can't see any issues" . I view this as complete waste of my time and TTB's money. When I phone the agents agree with my view that is must be network issue but say that they just can't circumvent things if the network team wants the line checked.

A move from TTB looks like my best option unless I want a long term battle. I wonder if BT wholesale is congestion free at wmmal Malvern.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jan-16 17:59:44)

This process is crazy, so phone line got switched back to BT as the lady said we would switch the phone line first and then do the broadband. I thought if the phone line came back to BT the LLU fibre would stop working but it didn't. I get a phone call and she says I need to phone sales to get the broadband ordered, that takes nearly two days. According to BT they are having trouble ordering broadband as there is already broadband on the line! Why not just order a migration.

The order gets placed and then cancelled, the woman at the executive office is chasing BT wholesale about that so more to come on that.

So on Friday I get a call and the lady says this is ridiculous how we are going round in circles, so she has just put an order through for a whole new line and broadband as that's pro lanky going to be the quickest way to sort this. She will then just cease the old line and everything on it.

Sounds an extreme measure but moving from full LLU seems to often be difficult. I hoped things might have improved since I am thinking on a similar move from TTB. You would think that it is should be simple exchange lift and shift job.

Yes you would think so. It's borderline farcical the difficulty in getting this done, keep in my I have the exec office of both BT and OR working together on this. I can only imagine it would be much worse for those dealing with the lower ranks.

At this stage we are 3 weeks in since I ordered, and about a week since my original activation date.

I'm also seeing packet loss on my TTB line almost 24/7. though latency is fine:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/5aa41f20238...

After speaking to TTB support, they're going to send an engineer to change my line card at my exchange tomorrow (Inverness Macdhui) as they feel the "exchange is overloaded with FTTC connections". If this doesn't make any difference then I'll be leaving TTB and joining you @ BT Business. I ain't paying £54 per month for a sub-standard connection!! I also considered moving to AAISP's new 1TB service ( TT based) but the 1TB limit put me off...we watch all our TV through broadband now ( Mag254 IPTV box) and typical usage is around 800-900gb per month so a 1TB monthly cap would be risking it. Anyway do let us know how you find BT Business

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

I also considered moving to AAISP's new 1TB service ( TT based) but the 1TB limit put me off...we watch all our TV through broadband now ( Mag254 IPTV box) and typical usage is around 800-900gb per month so a 1TB monthly cap would be risking it.

http://aaisp.net/broadband-soho1-terabyte.html

Anyway do let us know how you find BT Business

[pun alert]
Even the CEO's office can't find it, so ansam has no chance.
[/pun alert]

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 31-Jan-16 12:02:33)

Or the office of director of services at Openreach! between them no one can seem to figure out why this migration won't go ahead!

-Ordered 6th January BT business phone line and broadband.
-Get a call on the 7th to get details of order (is it a migration? working line? etc)
-Order was delayed to 20th January due to capacity issue.
-OR planning called and asked me if this was a new line or migration (I told them migration)
-20th January an engineer from OR was supposed to visit (not sure why but it never happened).
-Got directors office involved on the 21st January as no one on order provisioning etc could tell me what was happening.
-22nd January Original order gets cancelled and new order raised to bring just the phone line over for now.
-27th January phone line gets switched to BT (TTB fibre broadband continues to work)
-29th January new order for broadband gets placed and then cancelled a few hours later.
-1st February a new order for a whole new line (gets delayed capacity issues like before) and separate broadband order put through for existing line.
-What happens next... its anyones guess.

Now keep in mind that the BT CEO office, OR Director of Services office AND a manager at BT Wholesale are all involved in this. Its crazy.

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Feb-16 14:39:08)

Called back today to say CEO office still working on it. The problem seems to be with an order thats errored at some stage, and the broadband still showing with TTB thats giving problems to BT getting it migrated over.

The lady suggested possibly trying a renumbering, so changing the number which would cease the broadband and then placing an order for broadband once its ceased but she is not sure that will even work.

BT Wholesale and OR are working on it I am getting a call back tomorrow afternoon about progress.

Are you still able to use the TT broadband?

Hello,

Yes the TalkTalk Business fibre still works which is where I believe the issue is. This is the chat I just had with TTB.

I think this chat is related to the following:
LLU Unsolicited Cease Command Opal TTB 27/01/2016 19:35:30 Completed <-- not sure if it did actually complete though.

TalkTalk Business Live Agent: Ok, it appears that the fibre element of your migration is stuck in our system. This is the element that controls the data side of your services which would explain why you are still able to access our network. I do note that the cease is due for completion on 09/02/2016 and on this date you will no longer be able to access our network.

Me: I ordered this with BT 7th January. Is there no way to escalate this and have this ceased quicker so BT can sort the broadband side out?

TalkTalk Business Live Agent: It appears that this has already been escalated with BT Openreach. I can see that the cease was re-processed but unfortunately there is no way to speed this up I'm afraid.

Me: So when you say re-processed are you saying that this could happen before the 9th and when was it escalated?

TalkTalk Business Live Agent: This will not happen before the 9th as this is co-ordinated between 2 parties. Unfortunately, I cannot confirm the date in which it was escalated but the last update was on 22/01/2016 so I assume that this is when it was put back on the right track.

Me: Do you happen to have the openreach order number? as I have a contact in the CEO office there.

TalkTalk Business Live Agent: Our order ID is <removed>

TalkTalk Business Live Agent: Unfortunately, I do not deal directly with Openreach so I cannot confirm the format of their order numbers. I would assume that they would use the same Order ID as ourselves.

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Feb-16 17:38:25)

Your sig says 79997 but your sync from your first post is "Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps"

The sync of 79987 is indicative of being on a Huawei cabinet with a modem that doesn't support G.INP. Perhaps if you enabled G.INP you would get a better throughput.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The sync of 79987 is indicative of being on a Huawei cabinet with a modem that doesn't support G.INP. Perhaps if you enabled G.INP you would get a better throughput.

Utter tosh. My Draytek 130 VDSL2 modem syncs at 79987kbps and does support G.INP on my Huawei cabinet. The 130 uses a Lantiq VRX268 chipset, same as ECI modem i believe, so the ECI can support G.INP through a firmware update, if it doesn't already.

If we could keep this on topic but to answer the question I am using an unlocked Huawei modem HG612 with the latest WebGUI firmware (the one that does support G.INP B030SP08).

But those stats show G.INP is off.

Please could you post the output from the command-line telnet sequence, assuming telnet is enabled on your system:-

telnet 192.168.1.1
admin
admin
sh
xdslcmd info --show

(Apologies if you know that sequence, buit if you don't it save a Q & A exchange in case you don't).

That is definitive re G.INP.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 01-Feb-16 20:41:40)

xdslcmd?

You have to laugh

Grazie signore.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 01-Feb-16 20:43:39)

I am past the stage if G.INP is enabled or not as the move to BT is already in progress. Once thats completed I will check the stats again and post results. The issue at hand is the problem getting switched to BT. Per the live chat I posted earlier it seems to be this cease issue causing the problem.

It's not enabled. This is probably the reason for your problems.

And your sig is wrong

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Feb-16 20:44:24)

The impression I got from that earlier post is that your best option is to wait now. Trying to speed it up could at best save 1-2 days, and at worst screw it for another 14.

As you can see from the stats, this chap is on Fastpath. Perhaps you're on Fastpath too?

still silly that they can't do it right away as you're already online so bt should just be able to update the cab to change service to BT business (unless they have to wait to the agreed talktalk end date for switch over to happen, should not require an engineer call out)

as its all press of a button stuff once you're connected and wanting to move

Latest update is that there was an error at OR that had an open Cease open on the line and that had error'd out. They have closed that now and the lady at BT can now put an order through for the fibre.

However... the saga does continue as I now see that our cabinet is full and there is a waiting list. Since I have fibre I assume she can put an order through that simply needs open reach to update at the exchange since no cabinet work should be required since there is already fibre on the line.

That's good news and bad news.

Good that the problem was found. Bad that the lady may be able to do what you assume but I doubt it. We have seen many FTTC migrations on "full" cabinets fail. It seems to work with some sort of cease and re-provide, and the new waiting list can only have made that worse unless it has a routine to cover it.

It's even possible that's what went wrong in the first place .

Looking back, I can see you've thought this about the full cabinet before. As well as the above, a further complication is that a (physical?) change has to be made at the exchange to move your fibre connection from TT kit to BT Wholesale kit.

Sorry for this.

"Relax, " said the TTB man,
"We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! "

Whilst i am with TTB a previous departure from Opel only eventually occurred after a full cease prior to a new order. Unwise with a full cabinet. I recently asked AAISP about moving to them and was firmly told that I needed to first get a full cease from TTB before ordering with them. The AAISP advice is real pain and put me off but maybe it is well judged

The lady from the CEO office is discussing the options with BT Wholesale manager. It seems nuts not to be able to do a FTTC to FTTC migration, my line has already been moved to BT (broadband is still with TalkTalk Business and working).

The copper moves from the TT MSAN to a BT Wholesale MSAN. That was a definite physical change. The GEA FTTC connection is a different change. I think that too is physical, not electronic switching, but I'm not sure.

Edit: I've just developed a new doubt. Whether the copper associated with FTTC does go to an MSAN/DSLAM. It probably doesn't.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 03-Feb-16 13:57:49)

Not knowing the systems myself and its highly doubtful otherwise it wouldn't be an issue. Is there no way for BtWholesale just to raise the order as an FTTC to FTTC migration so that the work is carried out at the exchange, no cabinet work is required.

The GEA FTTC connection I referred to is at the exchange, not the cabinet. Each (wholesale) provider has to have a GEA cable link to get FTTC from the Openreach termination at the exchange to their own backhaul. (That link is for all that provider's FTTC customers, not one per customer).

The problem may lie in the move of your connection from one to the other, however accomplished.

Cabinet is back to availability again, go figure. So attempt number 6 being sent to get the broadband switched.

My packet loss has gone so far this evening and ansam is looking better. I will believe it is better after a week.

In reply to a post by les70:

My packet loss has gone so far this evening and ansam is looking better. I will believe it is better after a week.

Same here! No packet loss this evening on TTB. Wonder how long they can keep it up for....
My live BQM:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/07b4d36b37d...

So things have moved along and an order has been committed now and escalated for activation on Monday 8th. Hopefully it will happen before then (as it has happened in the past, early activation) as it would be much more preferable for it to happen today or during the weekend but at least I am somewhere that I have a firm activation now.

Its been a long process but looks like I can see the finishing line.

Re the comment about your BQM, which looks fine, has your speed stabilised as well?

Judging by your TTB BQM it seems your connection is fine now, correct? Just be aware that exchange congestion could easily occur on BT Business as well, cos no isp is immune from it. TT made some changes to my exchange ( Inverness Macdhui) a couple of days ago and I'm no longer seeing any packet loss and getting speeds of 75/19 meg day & night. For now I'm staying with TTB...

Post deleted by ansam

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Feb-16 16:57:26)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Judging by your TTB BQM it seems your connection is fine now, correct? Just be aware that exchange congestion could easily occur on BT Business as well, cos no isp is immune from it. TT made some changes to my exchange ( Inverness Macdhui) a couple of days ago and I'm no longer seeing any packet loss and getting speeds of 75/19 meg day & night. For now I'm staying with TTB...

Yes I was seeing an improved connection just before the switch. I have now switched to BT and have setup a new broadband monitor for it.

Glad to hear your broadband was finally migrated to BT Business. Out of curiosity how do you find BTB v TTB wrt pings and speedwise? Btw the link to your new live BQM doesn't work

Updated the link but here it is:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8998b32364d...

I have some ping data from previous troubleshooting so will do some comparison and let you know.

Here are my latest stats connected to huewei cabinet.

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31549 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84012 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.3 15.3
Attn(dB): 12.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 -1.0
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 239 237
M: 1 1
T: 23 42
R: 0 16
S: 0.0955 0.3781
L: 20104 5374
D: 1 1
I: 240 127
N: 240 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 68651764 3245321
OHFErr: 8278 65
RS: 0 2763723
RSCorr: 0 348
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 2475 0
OCD: 45 0
LCD: 45 0
Total Cells: 277230499 0
Data Cells: 206900165 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 1893 56
SES: 11 0
UAS: 56 45
AS: 113544

Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 1.65 3.98
OR: 116.09 64.22
AgR: 80103.09 20063.54

Bitswap: 25299/25299 6/6

Total time = 1 days 15 min 20 sec
FEC: 135 349
CRC: 11447 65
ES: 1893 56
SES: 11 0
UAS: 56 45
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 20 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 2 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 132 0
ES: 46 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 15 min 20 sec
FEC: 0 2
CRC: 134 0
ES: 47 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 295
CRC: 6776 52
ES: 1512 45
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 days 7 hours 32 min 23 sec
FEC: 0 348
CRC: 8278 65
ES: 1878 56
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

Looking at your first post, your downstream max attainable rate has gone from 92mb (TTB) to 84mb (BTB). Was this a gradual change or was your modem still showing the max around 92mb just before you migrated to BTB? Obviously your actual sync rate is unchanged (80/20) but if you start getting (more?) crosstalk.....

Edited by deleted (Thu 11-Feb-16 10:14:11)

To be honest I am not sure if that was a gradual increase to 92mb.

In reply to a post by ansam:

Here are my latest stats connected to huewei cabinet.

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31549 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84012 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Link Power State: L0

Your sync speed of 79987 is consistent with being on a Huawei cab with G.INP turned off.

Hi Batman
Any idea why i can't get G.INP on my upstream? I'm using a HG612 connected to a Huawei cab.

Welcome Visiting Huawei Home Gateway
Copyright by Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Login:admin
Password:
ATP>sh


BusyBox v1.9.1 (2014-01-21 16:44:38 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 29898 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80720 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 15.1
Attn(dB): 12.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.7 0.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 203 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.0809 0.3781
L: 21153 5374
D: 8 1
I: 214 127
N: 214 254
Q: 8 0
V: 5 0
RxQueue: 78 0
TxQueue: 26 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 26 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 3556626
OHFErr: 0 15
RS: 694889776 3283390
RSCorr: 1263 234
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 878816 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 10545058 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 122044 0
rtx_c: 53 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 79983 0
errFreeBits: 17221515 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2171642622 0
Data Cells: 2665701 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 30 30
AS: 14116

Bearer 0
INP: 49.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 80344.32 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 0/0 7/7

Total time = 3 hours 55 min 46 sec
FEC: 1263 234
CRC: 0 15
ES: 0 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 46 sec
FEC: 37 1
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 128 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 55 min 46 sec
FEC: 1263 234
CRC: 0 15
ES: 0 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 3 hours 55 min 15 sec
FEC: 1263 234
CRC: 0 15
ES: 0 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#

I can't tell you. It's the same on mine. Upstream G.INP comes on occasionally then it goes off.

Thats correct G.INP seems to be off, not sure if that will come on over time. Thats if my cabinet is even enabled for it.