DLM profiles + questions

Hi

Is this article correct still http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5929-reminder-abo... or has the way it works changed?

I'm told my profile is "0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off" and syncing at 61mbps.

Can retransmission be set to off?

What is involved when BT engineer does a DLM profile reset.... I'm guessing its a 5 minute job once at the exchange?

Can G.INP be disabled on lines? Reason i ask is i used to sync at 80mbps until the day G.INP was added to my line (I had ECI modem on huawei cab...but now i have huawei modem and even changed ISP and my speed has never improved)

Thanks.

As far as I know it's still the same.

I'm not sure if retransmission can be turned off.

I believe for a DLM reset the engineer makes a phone call and the team he speaks to can reset the DLM software that runs the kit in the cabinet.

It may well be the case that more customers have since been connected on your cabinet and the crosstalk has reduced your connection speed. What is the maximum attainable rate for your line?

I don't think G.INP would be able to be removed for individual connections but I could be wrong.

All you have to do is use an ECI modem. You can buy these for about a quid on Ebay as they don't support G.INP.

Alternatively, if you want to keep your Huawei, just apply the original hacked firmware which doesn't support G.INP either.

Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jan-16 08:38:50)

In reply to a post by Leki:

Is this article correct still http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5929-reminder-abo... or has the way it works changed?

No. That article dates back to before BT rolled out G.INP support in any form.

Nowadays, most lines from a Huawei cabinet will have downstream set to "retransmission low" and upstream set to "error protection off".

What happens when DLM is reset is somewhat ambiguous. Some evidence suggests the initial setting turns error protection off in both directions, as used to be the case. However, we have been told that a DLM reset should now set downstream "interleaving low" as the initial option (upstream off), before changing downstream to "retransmission low" when it recognises the modem as capable.

It isn't clear whether that behaviour for a DLM reset should only apply to Huawei cabinets.

More information available here:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/retransmission.htm

In reply to a post by Leki:

I'm told my profile is "0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off" and syncing at 61mbps.

Can retransmission be set to off?

Yes. It is off in the upstream direction, and DLM can choose to turn it off in the downstream direction.

In reply to a post by Leki:

What is involved when BT engineer does a DLM profile reset.... I'm guessing its a 5 minute job once at the exchange?

No visit is required. DLM resets are triggered from an Openreach operations centre (somewhere in Bristol?), upon request from an engineer. Engineers aren't free to request a DLM reset willy-nilly; they need to be able to justify it - for example, by fixing a physical fault with the line.

In reply to a post by Leki:

Can G.INP be disabled on lines? Reason i ask is i used to sync at 80mbps until the day G.INP was added to my line (I had ECI modem on huawei cab...but now i have huawei modem and even changed ISP and my speed has never improved)

No it cannot be disabled - DLM cannot be told to never use it as an option.

Is your Huawei unlocked? If so, what firmware version is it using? It needs to be an updated version in order to support G.INP.

If it is unlocked, can you provide a copy of the line stats?

Re WWWombat's reply, the required unlocked version is V100R001C01B030SP08

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Re WWWombat's reply, the required unlocked version is V100R001C01B030SP08

That firmware has G.INP enabled. If the OP wants to prevent G.INP is B030SP06 the required version?

The OP is asking whether G.INP can be disabled, in the apparent belief that G.INP is causing a reduction in their line speeds.

They might be mistaken in that belief. The problem might be caused by a modem that fails to make proper use of G.INP instead - and in my experience, this is much more likely. Even with Huawei modems.

Finding out which case is true, before advocating how to fix it, is by far the best course of action here.

If the problem is caused by old firmware on the Huawei, then the OP is likely to achieve a better result, by a large margin, by upgrading the modem and leaving G.INP active.

Standard trouble-shooting approach: Make sure you are in possession of as many facts as you can get hold of.

The op asked this

In reply to a post by Leki:

Can retransmission be set to off?

The answer is, yes it can - either by using an ECI modem (or any other) that doesn't support G.INP or by downgrading the HG612 firmware to one that doesn't.

I agree that using a modem that fails to support G.INP has the effect of forcing G.INP to remain unused. I'm not sure that is quite the same as setting it to off. But that's a question of language, and I'm not so worried about that.

The real problem is that by answering that, alone, so bluntly, does the OP a disservice. You don't help him understand context, you don't help him identify the real cause of his problem, and you don't help him attain the best result for his line.

Continuing bluntly, it is a lazy answer.

I'm sure you know better than the OP what the OP wants.

Just looking at my HG612 output, I have

bitswap         On
sra             Off
trellis         On
sesdrop         Off
CoMinMgn        Off
24k             On
phyReXmt(Us/Ds) Off/On
TpsTc           AvPvAa
monitorTone:    On
dynamicD:       On
dynamicF:       Off
SOS:            On

What I can't see is where phyReXmt(Us/Ds) is set . It should be possible.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 27-Jan-16 13:47:01)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just looking at my HG612 output, I have

bitswap         On
sra             Off
trellis         On
sesdrop         Off
CoMinMgn        Off
24k             On

phyReXmt(Us/Ds) Off/On

TpsTc           AvPvAa
monitorTone:    On
dynamicD:       On
dynamicF:       Off
SOS:            On

What I can't see is where phyReXmt(Us/Ds) is set . It should be possible.

Sorry? Oh, do you mean in the config?

Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jan-16 13:51:03)

Yes . We can see there what it is set at, and it is present in the config, but not with on/off or other parameters so far as I can tell.

This any good? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28768737-

Interesting!

It works, though I did use xdslcmd rather than adsl

No appreciable difference.

I inadvertently did a start earlier, changing from what is in my sig in this post, (and correct earlier today and for weeks), to

Max: 15540/58416
Bearer 0: 15589/59465

to

Max: 15641/58888
Bearer 0: 15641/59504

Bearer 1: No change.

Of course, the thread you linked to was October 2013. Anyone know if upstream G.INP was active then?

What we do know now though is that if and when upstream G.INP is re-implemented, then unless it is forced from the DSLAM by a remote command that this firmware probably won't pick it up automatically.

Anyone got any historic stats showing upstream G.INP?

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31924 Kbps, Downstream rate = 85088 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.1 13.7
Attn(dB): 13.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 3.2
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 -6
B: 130 97
M: 1 1
T: 0 0
R: 8 8
S: 0.0518 0.1554
L: 21468 5457
D: 16 8
I: 139 106
N: 139 106
Q: 16 8
V: 14 2
RxQueue: 57 39
TxQueue: 19 13
G.INP Framing: 18 18
G.INP lookback: 19 13
RRC bits: 24 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 58
B: 0 0
M: 2 2
T: 2 2
R: 16 16
S: 5.3333 16.0000
L: 48 16
D: 3 1
I: 32 32
N: 32 32
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 3142915696 6650
RSCorr: 41460 7558
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 19924295 79372
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 239090802 2699853
RSCorr: 0 100
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1647 727
rtx_c: 1435 714
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 15 7
minEFTR: 79999 19991
errFreeBits: 390491898 97609585

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1990925181 0
Data Cells: 900636194 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 11 1
SES: 10 0
UAS: 69 59
AS: 320038

Bearer 0
INP: 46.00 47.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 0.00
OR: 0.01 0.01
AgR: 80614.82 20102.08

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 4.00
INPRein: 4.00 4.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 16.06
OR: 95.62 31.87
AgR: 95.62 31.87

Bitswap: 130964/130964 276/276

From last March When G.inp was enabled on the upstream, And now it isn't, The G.inp is controlled from the DSLAM if the modem supports it , it should use it ,

once the DSLAM can see that a device doesn't support G.inp it uses a fall back profile which is interleave on both upstream and downstream for a short time, I know i have tested by using the incompatible ECI modem , It started off with normal fastpath latency and Full sync rates ,confirmed by the Max BTIP profile,

Then after iirc 2 weeks DLM borked the connection, leaving the ECI is a strange unresponsive state, with no internet access ( this was /is a ECI modem that as far as i know didn't get g.inp enabled update,because it wasn't in use) I connected the HG612 and could see it was interleaved both up and down, after 2 days or less dlm re configured things to only downstream interleave , then again within 24hrs reduced the depth, 2 days later g.inp was back on the ds everything as it was before

V100R001C01B030SP06

Thanks Tommy . Now I know what they are likely to look like.

Re your SP06 at the end, my SP08 was copy and pasted straight off my HG612 GUI immediately before posting. That raises an interesting point if you are still using it, as to what xdslcmd profile --show says.

Software version = V100R001C01B030SP06
Software last change detected at 03/11/2015 at 00:33

Firmware version = A2pv6C038m.d24j
Firmware last change detected at 03/11/2015 at 00:33

CPU version = BCM6368
CPU last change detected at 03/11/2015 at 00:33

CFE version = 1.0.37-102.6
CFE last change detected at 03/11/2015 at 00:33

From Modem stats as it won't allow another telnet login

In reply to a post by tommy45:

V100R001C01B030SP06

Oh, so that support G.INP as well. That's no good then to disable G.INP we need B028SP06 or 10 ?

Yes i have used the same F/W all the time that I've been using the hg612 , i never bothered updating at the time because iirc there wasn't a unlocked version without bt agent that had the gui access ,but as i found out this version works with G.inp anyway

I would imagine the version that was released before this version or any of the older versions will not work with G.inp

I think the later version has the later driver blob and the webgui one has VLAN 1.301 disabled.

I may give it a whirl sometime then , never know may see a slight improvement ,but i doubt it

Thanks everyone for the replies.

My Huawei modem isn't unlocked but I may go and do that now. Can I check what firmware it is on currently without it being unlocked?

My questions about G.INP were mainly if ISP's had access to turn it off, or if they have any access to tweak the connections on fibre like you could on ADSL. I hate the DLM on fibre as it has only caused problems for me in the past and taken months to restore my connection speeds after a line fault etc. It would be great if BT allowed ISPs more control to disable DLM and tweak settings manually but I don't think BT care about that.

My main problem is I've synced at 80mbps for over 2 years when I was with talktalk and zen and they day G.INP was enabled my connection went bad and I synced at 60mpbs and has never got better. My estimated line downspeed is around 60mbps for my line though so my ISP or BT don't care about the 20mbps loss since they say i shouldn't have been able to get 80mbps anyway.

So I'm wondering if there is anything to do to get the 20mbps back and was thinking since G.INP started all the problems getting rid of it would help.....but maybe using the newer unlocked firmware for my modem could help if it supports G.INP better?

IIRC that big drop is what happened to everyone with ECI modems on a Huawei cabinet. Originally G.INP was on both downstream and upstream, as tommy, BatBoy and I have been discussing. Then OR withdrew it completely for a short time while they semi-sorted the ECI mess.

They then reintroduced it on downstream only and some say the ECI also received a firmware upgrade sent out online. Maybe yours didn't get that and your line may have been banded. It's quite a fog-bound chain of events! (That's being polite). Or maybe the reintroduction was after you swapped over.

No you can't see a thing with the locked HG612. I haven't got the link for the unlocked software version I'm using at the moment, and Tommy's is the one before. I expect someone else will pop up with it soon - I have a very busy day tomorrow as not done my tax return yet!

Possibly the version in yours is already non-G.INP. The fact that the ECI screwed your line up doesn't men to say that a G.INP HG612 wouldn't fix it, but it's almost certain in my mind that a non-G.INP HG612 wouldn't.

So your problem might not be being unable to turn it off, but just a need to update to use it.

So your current state is "xdslcmd start --phyReXmt 0x01" - up off / down on

OK well finally got round to unlocking my modem.

My speed are currently the same but here are the stats:

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 21207 Kbps, Downstream rate = 62400 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63025 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 21207 kbps 62400 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.6 dBm 13.4 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 3.8 19.6 30.0 N/A N/A 10.7 24.8 37.5
Signal Attenuation(dB): 3.8 18.8 29.0 N/A N/A 14.0 24.7 37.5
SNR Margin(dB): 6.4 6.7 6.7 N/A N/A 6.3 6.3 6.3
TX Power(dBm): -5.7 -23.8 6.4 N/A N/A 10.3 7.9 6.9






# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 21151 Kbps, Downstream rate = 62400 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63025 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 6.8
Attn(dB): 15.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.4 6.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.1233 0.3781
L: 16483 5374
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 51 0
TxQueue: 17 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 17 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 939634
OHFErr: 0 7
RS: 120523512 792507
RSCorr: 339 12
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 232217 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2321556 0
RSCorr: 5 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 61210 0
rtx_c: 22 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 63019 0
errFreeBits: 3584551 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 452052087 0
Data Cells: 2111664 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 1899 1899
AS: 3730

Bearer 0
INP: 49.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 63089.80 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 2909/2909 8/8

Total time = 1 hours 33 min 49 sec
FEC: 339 12
CRC: 0 7
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 1899 1899
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 49 sec
FEC: 24 6
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 78 3
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 33 min 49 sec
FEC: 339 12
CRC: 0 7
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 1899 1899
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 2 min 9 sec
FEC: 339 12
CRC: 0 7
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

I can't see how your connection ever delivered a sync of 80000. I can see it may be capped a bit by DLM but the max attainable rate seems a realistic target, even though you're currently syncing higher than that with SNR margin to spare.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I can't see how your connection ever delivered a sync of 80000. I can see it may be capped a bit by DLM but the max attainable rate seems a realistic target, even though you're currently syncing higher than that with SNR margin to spare.

It was though ...fast and stable for over 2 years with TalkTalk and Zen, here is my line stats from Zen members area:
http://i.imgur.com/z6Tf68u.png

Of course that ended in March 2015 when G.INP was added to my line/cab

I'm with Plusnet now and wondering if there is anything I can do restore my connection to its former glory?

Edited by Leki (Wed 03-Feb-16 17:14:35)

In reply to a post by Leki:

It was though ...fast and stable for over 2 years with TalkTalk and Zen, here is my line stats from Zen members area:
http://i.imgur.com/z6Tf68u.png

Of course that ended in March 2015 when G.INP was added to my line/cab

Do you know when/how long before G.INP was added to your line, you last sync'ed?

You would reasonably expect crosstalk to appear after two years with your line syncing at a lower level (as originally estimated)

As such, I suspect the introduction of G.INP didn't cause your problems as such - the resync itself did.

Most report an increase in line speeds if its only down to the introduction of G.INP.

You may have to wait for vectoring to see if that improves things. An ISP cant control whether G.INP is applied to your line.

Edited by gt94sss2 (Wed 03-Feb-16 17:48:42)

@gt94sss2

Well it never resynced from when it was first connected to zen in that screenshot, the next entry/resync was when G.INP was applied and i had a ECI modem on a huawei cab which of course caused all the problems with slower speeds and higher ping. About a week after i swapped my modem with a friends space huawei modem and my sync increased a little and my ping went back to normal but download speeds never went back to what they used to be.

Edited by Leki (Wed 03-Feb-16 18:00:45)

In which case,I think the slower speed is as a result of crosstalk.

As you never resync'ed in the two years, your connection held but I presume you have a lot more FTTC users in your area now and the reconnection took this into account.

As you have unlocked your connection, you may want to consider joining https://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/

@gt94sss2

Well it wasn't 2 years like that as it would have resynced when i went from TalkTalk to Zen as zen said i had to go on to ADSL first, once i was connected to fibre again on 18th September 2014 I synced at full speed http://i.imgur.com/z6Tf68u.png

It was only a few months later in March 2015 that G.INP was applied and my line went bad.

When trying to access https://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/ i get "Access Permission Denied..." ...seems this new IP I have is blocked?

Edited by Leki (Sun 07-Feb-16 14:37:23)