Fibre finally available! BT Infinity 2 self-install..?

Hi guys,

Some of you may remember a month or two ago I began to get impatient with the fibre availability in my area. Checkers were showing different results etc.

After some hassling, back and forth emails with Openreach, Digital Scotland and our very own Mr. Saffron (and others on the Forum thank you!), this past Monday the DSLchecker began to show my landline as AVAILABLE for FTTC.

Without a second of a thought, I jumped straight on it and opted to go for BT Infinity 2, ordered it up (self install) and have been given an activation date of 15/06/16. As excited as I was, I am starting to doubt whether choosing self install was the correct choice. I assumed all I would need to do was plug and play the new HH5 when I recieved it.

However, after reading up a little more I have come across people changing faceplates to go along with their new setup.

I am wondering if this is something (the only thing) that I will have to do on my own? And if it will involve changing wires or just fitting in a new faceplate (possibly an mk2 or mk3?).

Also, as I ordered with self-install am I immediately put onto a "Range B" type connection? If so, is this a problem, will I notice any difference with speeds as I should recieve the max as the cabinet is only just across the road?

I have posted a photo below of my setup as it is now on an ADSL2(+) connection, and would be grateful if someone could shed some light on this, with any advice and/or recommendations.

http://s33.postimg.org/b57ah0rz3/image.jpg


Thanks.

No one is put onto a range B connection, you will get the speeds that your line and setup can provide.

If that socket is the SOLE telephone socket in the property then (a) new faceplates won't fit (b) they aren't needed as they are designed to reduce the effect of extension wiring, so if you don't have any extensions no point and thus a microfilter is fine

But, I looked at your picture a few minutes ago and want to add to what Andrew said. If that isn't the sole socket and there is modern master (NTE5) elsewhere, is there any way you could place the new router at the master socket and run an Ethernet cable to the room the pictured socket is in? Using an extension socket is likely to lower your connection speed but rarely dramatically.

Also if there is an NTE5A and you have the ring wire connected at the master you need to remove the ring wire there. The ring wire is a significant coster of connection speed. Far more important than which socket you use and the type of filter. See this page.

The optimum setup if there is an NTE5A elsewhere is to add a Mk3 interstitial filter at it, put the router there as mentioned above, and run CAT 5 cable to the pictured room. If you do that you can leave the ring wire connected. Other almost as effective modifications are possible. It would be be a good idea to describe what sockets there are . One of the reasons for the B range of estimates is to cover non-optimised home wiring and avoid speed complaints that aren't easily fended off.

My advice would be to try it out using your existing setup using a micro-filter. Then look at the stats and you are happy with the speed and stability then no problem. There is a stats page on the HH5 and there are plenty of people on the forum that will be able totell you if you can do better.

If that's the only phone socket in the house, then there's no issue. If you have any extensions (and looking at the photo there's a wire emerging towards the lower left), that my be to extension sockets although it could be the incoming line. With that sort of master extensions (unless wired in by BT) really ought to be plugged into the socket rather than hard-wired.

nb. whatever happens it will be working.

Ack! I meant to include that the OP should just suck it and see first, as you say .

I don't agree though with your comment about the wiring in of extensions by BT being trouble free, unless you meant as part of an FTTC install. As for plugin extensions, a very bad idea if between a wired in socket and a filter closer to the modem.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If that socket is the SOLE telephone socket in the property then (a) new faceplates won't fit (b) they aren't needed as they are designed to reduce the effect of extension wiring, so if you don't have any extensions no point and thus a microfilter is fine

I have attached a photo below of what my current setup is. Not all that savvy so please bear with.

Photo 1: I believe this is the master socket in the living room?.. in which a microfilter is attached, with only a wire from the HomeHub to the MODEM connection point of the filter.

Link to image: http://tinyurl.com/zfo8p9x

Photo 2: The extension socket through the house, in which there is also a microfilter but only the PHONE is connected to that one (the main landline telephone).

Link to image: http://tinyurl.com/hlaogbx

None of this was wired by myself as I still live with my parents, and it has been quite some time since I can remember having someone round fiddling with all these wires.

If anyone can further on this with what I should do, or if it's all good to go could you let me know, thanks!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Also if there is an NTE5A and you have the ring wire connected at the master you need to remove the ring wire there. The ring wire is a significant coster of connection speed. Far more important than which socket you use and the type of filter. See this page.

Should I be removing the ring-bell wire (if it's there); given my situation above? (HomeHub connected to one microfilter, telephone connected to another microfilter on an extension).

Thanks again guys.

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:

If that's the only phone socket in the house, then there's no issue. If you have any extensions (and looking at the photo there's a wire emerging towards the lower left), that my be to extension sockets although it could be the incoming line. With that sort of master extensions (unless wired in by BT) really ought to be plugged into the socket rather than hard-wired.

The wire on the left was just the mains cables from either the phone or the Homehub. I can't seem to find any wires (visible) running to the 'extension socket' through the house. Is it possible that these are wired from the back of the faceplate and through the walls of my house etc?

Those both look like extensions to me, but can't be sure without seeing the other side of the circuit board of the second. Can you see where the line comes into the house and where it goes from there?

In reply to a post by Mic8393:

The wire on the left was just the mains cables from either the phone or the Homehub. I can't seem to find any wires (visible) running to the 'extension socket' through the house. Is it possible that these are wired from the back of the faceplate and through the walls of my house etc?

Looking at the picture in your opening post I think he was referring to the one I would say is on the right, looking at it. White, and curving into the skirting board.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Those both look like extensions to me, but can't be sure without seeing the other side of the circuit board of the second. Can you see where the line comes into the house and where it goes from there?

Sir, I believe you are absolutely correct! For the 23 years I've lived in this house I have never once noticed this MASTER SOCKET in the most stupid of places, right behind a door in the lobby! Asked my mother and she believes BT rewired this to its current position after they put up false walls in the living room to create a bedroom - many years ago.

Please see the photos below:
http://s33.postimg.org/4y1o7cpun/image.jpg
http://s33.postimg.org/61qdx1zvj/image.jpg

Now that master socket is in a stupid place where a router cannot be placed. Is it possible to have this all rewired or are we just as well using the extension we have been using for the past who knows how many years..

OK, course of action.

Very similar to earlier proposals in the thread. On the back of that master faceplate it looks as though there may be four wires. That is two pairs, Blue/white + white/blue and orange/white + white/orange.

Please tell us what connector numbers each wire goes to. And anything wrong in what I think I see from the pictures.

We will first confirm they are wired technically correctly. If they are we will tell you what to do, which should be simply removing a specific one or two of them.

That is the quickest and simplest solution for now. As previously advised, just suck it and see when your FTTC arrives.

If you are happy with the performance you don't need to do anything further. If you aren't, then there are ways to improve it, but possibly not a lot and everything would involve more upheaval than your parents are likely to want.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-Jun-16 17:07:58)

I was referring to the right, not the left. Mixing up my rights & lefts. A good job I don't drive. Wait, I do....

Just make sure you wear your seat belt. So you don't fall out when changing gear.

So had you got fibre a couple of years ago, BT would have installed an MK3 filter on the master, and that would have been the only socket which would have worked with fibre optic.

TBH I even had this setup just 2 months ago when I got a new line.

You say there is no way to use the master, can you not drill a hole through the wall for example, run a cable through and have the router in the next room?

Using those extensions is very poor practice, especially as it appears 4 cables are connected (not just 2) which suggests bell wire etc are in use which can cause havoc.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 12-Jun-16 02:31:22)

Once he tells us exactly what wires are connected where at the master, it's easy to clean it up. The only complication is if there is a split pair, which is unlikely. Sometimes we find the pair of the ring wire connected to Pin 4 rather than cut off or curled away.

It appears we have some comedians on the board!!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Once he tells us exactly what wires are connected where at the master, it's easy to clean it up. The only complication is if there is a split pair, which is unlikely. Sometimes we find the pair of the ring wire connected to Pin 4 rather than cut off or curled away.

Photos attached.
I hope you can decipher where each is going and what means what - as I'm sure you do!

http://s33.postimg.org/ozqj1iv9r/IMG_6076.jpg
http://s33.postimg.org/qlya6jbnz/IMG_6074.jpg

Cheers folks!

You only need to remove number 3.

Keep 2 and 5 connected.

Then the speeds should be relatively good.

Number 3 is the bell wire and no longer used but adds interference for broadband on extensions.

That's brilliant.

It is showing your two extensions are both wired direct to the master socket.

You have two options. Read the whole post before doing anything.

First, you could remove the orange wires as follows:-

The two orange ones on the middle connector, numbered 3, are the ring wire for each. I haven't seen that type of connector before, with the little cord bit flopping about in the slot. I'm used to straight IDC connectors, so see if you can work out how to remove them gently. It is preferable not to cut them in case a later owner needs them connected.

I would do them one at a time. It is important not to disturb the connections on the outer terminals, numbers 2 and 5, though it looks as if you might need to move the outer section of one to get at the bottom orange one.

If in doubt, wait for someone who knows the connector type. Or, see further down for the other option.

Once done, if you are on ADSL Max/IPStream Connect and not on maximum sync, you are likely to get a considerable increase in connection speed, with the IP Profile rising within a few days to give you and actual throughput increase.

If you are on ADSL2+, the speed should rise even more and the IP Profile should adjust immediately and throughput rise.

It's a good job we've found that, as the effect on FTTC at an extension with those two ring wires attached could be dramatic - far worse than on ADSLx. That's the sort of thing the "Impacted" B estimate range is all about.

Re what I said earlier about "further down", here it is.

Your second option is to buy a Mk3 Openreach/BT VDSL2 filter which you insert between the faceplate and the back of the socket. It has slots for the cables to fit through. For most installations, and your isn't one of them people simply plug it into the test socket then plug the faceplate into the into the socket that is straight through to the test socket. (Note for future reference, that socket does not act as a test socket. The broadband is filtered within this additional filter plate). You then normally don't need to worry about the ring wire - it is supposedly filtered out.

You could use it like that, but the router would almost certainly need to be next to it, which you don't want. I say "almost certainly" because I think someone has run a CAT 5 cable from the top socket that you would have gained to where they want the router but that isn't a good idea in case someone unplugs it without you knowing. Also there would be no phone signal at the router end. At the moment you don't have one anyway, but needs can change.

The advantage your parents would see if you fit an interstitial faceplate is that the socket that currently has a phone would no longer need a filter.

In one front corner of this "interstitial filter plate" are a couple of connectors, labelled A and B. Those are what a CAT5 cable would be connected to that you would then feed to your remote router.

However that connection would be unfiltered and you would still need a filter at the router end if a phone was to be used there at any stage. It wouldn't be possible to use a phone there even if the router was removed, as the filters remove the broadband from the line so you can hear what is on the phone. They don't remove the phone signal from the broadband side, the modem (standalone or built into the router as in the Home Hub), does that.

I think you will gather why we are advising you to suck it and see before doing anything major, but I would very strongly advice you to remove the ring wires anyway. They can affect ADSLx by up to 2Mbps, and FTTC by more.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

You only need to remove number 3.

Keep 2 and 5 connected.

Then the speeds should be relatively good.

Number 3 is the bell wire and no longer used but adds interference for broadband on extensions.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's brilliant.

It is showing your two extensions are both wired direct to the master socket.

You have two options. Read the whole post before doing anything.

First, you could remove the orange wires as follows:-

The two orange ones on the middle connector, numbered 3, are the ring wire for each. I haven't seen that type of connector before, with the little cord bit flopping about in the slot. I'm used to straight IDC connectors, so see if you can work out how to remove them gently. It is preferable not to cut them in case a later owner needs them connected.

I would do them one at a time. It is important not to disturb the connections on the outer terminals, numbers 2 and 5, though it looks as if you might need to move the outer section of one to get at the bottom orange one.

If in doubt, wait for someone who knows the connector type. Or, see further down for the other option.

Once done, if you are on ADSL Max/IPStream Connect and not on maximum sync, you are likely to get a considerable increase in connection speed, with the IP Profile rising within a few days to give you and actual throughput increase.

If you are on ADSL2+, the speed should rise even more and the IP Profile should adjust immediately and throughput rise.

It's a good job we've found that, as the effect on FTTC at an extension with those two ring wires attached could be dramatic - far worse than on ADSLx. That's the sort of thing the "Impacted" B estimate range is all about.

Excellent guys thanks for your help! I will go ahead and remove the bell wires and post results.

Also, as I shall probably stick to connecting my router via the extension in the next room, will it have any noticeable impact on the speeds I will receive when I switch over to FTTC next week?

In the next room? Unless the extension cabling goes all the way round the house via the loft, negligible once you get rid of the ring wires.

Let us know what happens to your ADSLx speed . Is it ADSL or ADSL2+?

I should be clear, using bell wire also causes interference at the master socket too. So it's really good to get it removed.

Speeds are unlikely to be hugely affected (if at all) once you make the adjustments. Just remember for future, BT is only liable up to the master, so if a fault develops try the master socket before reporting to service provider, else if the faults on the extension wiring you'll be paying the repair bill.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I should be clear, using bell wire also causes interference at the master socket too. So it's really good to get it removed.

Speeds are unlikely to be hugely affected (if at all) once you make the adjustments. Just remember for future, BT is only liable up to the master, so if a fault develops try the master socket before reporting to service provider, else if the faults on the extension wiring you'll be paying the repair bill.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In the next room? Unless the extension cabling goes all the way round the house via the loft, negligible once you get rid of the ring wires.

Let us know what happens to your ADSLx speed . Is it ADSL or ADSL2+?

Okay so I removed the (2) ring wires from the master and one which appeared to be in the back of the extension (extension which only the home hub is connected to) - should that have been there? Haven't had another look behind the extension in which the phone is connected to but shall first thing in the morning, if there is a ring wire here should it be removed also? (which could be why the results below are so)

Opened Hub manager, and downstream/upstream noise margins etc. all seem to be the same as before. Can post screenshots if need be.

Also I am on ADSL2+ at the moment.

Thanks again folks.

Yes, the wires on T3 at the master each go to an extension. Very often there will only be one set of wires at the master though, with the extensions daisy-chained. It isn't usually necessary to remove the ring wire at the extensions because any noise it picks up doesn't get onto the line itself anywhere but at T3 of the master socket. Barring a couple of very strange cases I've seen where disconnecting at the extensions as well. It does no harm to remove it.

The noise margins and attenuations should be basically unchanged. The attenuation on ADSL2+ is a function of the line length from the exchange and the physical type of the wires in that line. As in copper or aluminium throughout or in parts, and the thickness of the wires.

The noise margin at sync time is set by the exchange equipment and is controlled by the DLM (Dynamic Line Management) system. Once the sync is made it will then vary a bit 24/7 as the actual electromagnetic noise varies.

What I expected to change was the connection speed. It's usually at least 500kbps increase on ADSL and possibly 750kbps on ADSL2+. The highest improvement I've ever seen on these forums was 2Mbps, but several of 1.5Mbps. on ADSL2+ I would expect to see 1Mbps or more in most cases.

Check your noise margin tomorrow well inside daylight hours but before dusk and see if it has risen by more than 2-3dB. If it has, it's worth a single re-sync.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 13-Jun-16 00:14:24)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yes, the wires on T3 at the master each go to an extension. Very often there will only be one set of wires at the master though, with the extensions daisy-chained. It isn't usually necessary to remove the ring wire at the extensions because any noise it picks up doesn't get onto the line itself anywhere but at T3 of the master socket. Barring a couple of very strange cases I've seen where disconnecting at the extensions as well. It does no harm to remove it.

The noise margins and attenuations should be basically unchanged. The attenuation on ADSL2+ is a function of the line length from the exchange and the physical type of the wires in that line. As in copper or aluminium throughout or in parts, and the thickness of the wires.

The noise margin at sync time is set by the exchange equipment and is controlled by the DLM (Dynamic Line Management) system. Once the sync is made it will then vary a bit 24/7 as the actual electromagnetic noise varies.

What I expected to change was the connection speed. It's usually at least 500kbps increase on ADSL and possibly 750kbps on ADSL2+. The highest improvement I've ever seen on these forums was 2Mbps, but several of 1.5Mbps. on ADSL2+ I would expect to see 1Mbps or more in most cases.

Check your noise margin tomorrow well inside daylight hours but before dusk and see if it has risen by more than 2-3dB. If it has, it's worth a single re-sync.

Thanks for explaining so clearly. I'll leave it for tonight and have a look tomorrow to see if anything changes - the fibre countdown is on, i better not miss the postie on Wednesday

It the extensions are daisy-chained and you connect a router at one of the intermediation sockets then it can have a fairly severed effect on VDSL sync speed as you have a "bridged tap". The severity will depend on the length of the effectively unterminated (at VDSL frequencies) wire and which particularly frequencies are impacted.

To give an idea of the impact of this, at my normal socket in my study area on the end of about 8m of cat5e cable my line syncs at about 56mbps (which is consistent with the reported attenuation). If I move the router to the master socket, I get a reported increase in attenuation and the line syncs at about 36Mbps.

The impact of such (relatively short) bridged tap tends to be much worse at VDSL frequencies than at ADSL frequencies.

So my recommendation is that the VDSL socket should be the very last unfiltered socket. If there are any extensions beyond your chosen VDSL socket then filter them. Any non BB extensions from the master really ought to be filtered due to this bridged tape effect (and it will be more critical on VDSL than ADSL).

Of course if the signal is strong, then the bell-wire fix alone might work.

nb. my parents have a house with a similar master socket but, fortunately, all he extensions were connected via the front socket (the plug-in cable simply went to a junction box thence to the many extensions). I simply installed a filtered extension socket and fed all the voice extensions via the filtered output and the one BB extension (to their study) from the unfiltered output where I installed another filtered socket to provide for both phone and BB. Replacing the extension cable would have been difficult. It seems to work with minimal extra loss despite not being UTP, but they are still on ADSL2 as that's adequate for their needs.

There would be ways of tidying all this up by using such a filtered extension socket, but the neatness depends on the details of existing cable runs and space available.

Guys, just to put this thread to bed.

Switched over today and so far no problems. Currently sitting at a steady 71/11Mb on wireless, with the router connected via microfilter into the hardwired extension.

Thanks all for your help leading up to this and for the suggestions. Much appreciated.

Michael

That sounds good .

(Did you check if the ADSL2+ speed went up in the interim?)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That sounds good .

(Did you check if the ADSL2+ speed went up in the interim?)

Yeah, sometimes when I ran the checker it showed 11Mb, 2 minutes later it'd say 4Mb - chopping and changing all the time..

What?

What checker? I'm talking about the connection speed/sync, not throughput. As we discussed earlier about a daylight resync.

Sorry.

Was still showing as 14 through the home hub manager, with a noise level of 17dB.

Now syncing at 74/19 with a line attenuation 14.1 / 12.9

Noise down 3dB?

That was odd. Almost as though some cap had been put on the ADSL2+. But the cause, we hope, is history.

Regarding the noise margin, that is set sync time at the cabinet on FTTC, and at the exchange on ADSLx. From that point on the noise over the copper between you and the cabinet on FTTC varies with whatever noise level turns up near enough to the line. On ADSLx it is over the whole line to the exchange.

As noise goes up, the noise margin falls. See this page for a fuller explanation. The difference about SNRM between ADSLx and FTTC is that to stabilise the line one of the methods on ADSLx is to raise the sync-time noise margin to slow down the line, whereas on FTTC a speed cap is put directly on the line sync instead. They call it "banding". (I need to update the page about that). Let's hope the line between you and the cabinet is good. If you need to know more about banding, kitz.co.uk is a good site.

Thanks for that info.

Checking today shows:

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 10:06:39
Downstream: 64.73 Mbps
Upstream: 16.36 Mbps

Dropped 10Mb down.

Also, both today and yesterday when I have gotten home from work, it has shown that connection time has reset in the morning. Is this normal for a new connection?

Sort of normal, but not what you wish for.

2.2.1 Dynamic Line Management

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly manages lines to maintain a target link quality (speed and stability). It does this for as long as the product exists.

At provision, the line is put on �wide open� VDSL2 line profiles allowing the upstream and downstream line speeds to run at the upper limit of the product option selected.

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

(BT SIN 498). By that it means in your case after midnight on Thursday night. The early hours of Friday.

Whereas on ADSLx DLM messes around whenever it decides, on FTTC it is normally some time during the night after it has analysed the line's error statistics.

That size of drop in sync suggests interleaving has been turned on, and on the upstream too which is unusual. Can you see any more stats, or just what you have given us? This sort of thing is ideal:-

# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 14866 Kbps, Downstream rate = 57908 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14989 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59500 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.6 5.7
Attn(dB): 19.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.6 7.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 25
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 10 16
S: 0.1306 0.5051
L: 15561 4023
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 48 0
TxQueue: 16 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 16 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 1794243
OHFErr: 304 389
RS: 1429279640 1515982
RSCorr: 4870768 4434
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 116838785 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 934709789 0
RSCorr: 667 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 51370 0
rtx_c: 41571 0
rtx_uc: 49279 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 479 0
minEFTR: 59478 0
errFreeBits: 3192940116 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 4284342443 0
Data Cells: 237033393 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 76 367
SES: 11 0
UAS: 532 522
AS: 1876766

Bearer 0
INP: 49.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.11
OR: 0.01 30.56
AgR: 59560.78 15019.66

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01

Bitswap: 1418653/1418653 41449/41591

#

Do you know what type of FTTC cabinet you are connected to? Huawei or ECI? What modem/router do you have?

I don't appear to have access to stats like that, using the Home Hub 5.

Connection dropping again this morning.. Seems like every 12 hours.

I believe I'm connected to a Huawei cabinet, although my mum said that she seen an open reach guy tinkering with things at the old scabby cabinet the day of migration - when the internet dropped out to be switched. Also there is no white sticker indicating the cabinet number on the new FTTC one?

Currently chatting to BT Chat.

The guy has run some line tests. He believes the wiring at my property is correct but has discovered a fault in the Broadband line. An engineer is being sent out on Monday between 1pm-6pm.

Will update then with information.

It's probably detecting a bridged tap, which would be because you have 2 sets of extension wires coming off of the master socket.

That's awkward, because the fault detected may be a bridge tap, (a minor point by the way - it's called a bridge tap, not a bridged tap). If so the previous two posters who mentioned it may be right. I thought these only occurred before the incoming wires reached the master, not when two extensions are directly connected to the faceplate.

The correct fix is to get a Mk3 filter plate, which simply plugs into the test socket of the master, with the master faceplate plugged into that. You check which pair is going to the socket you wish to use for the router, and transfer it to the pair of unfiltered connectors marked A and B on the Mk3. That is what a engineer install would have involved, though he may also have preferred to upgrade the cable between there and the extension. That raises the question of whether the wires reach to it as they are.

You would still need a filter at the router extension because the signal from the A/B connectors is unfiltered. Your second extension is filtered by the Mk3 so wouldn't need one.

What worries me is that if this is the problem you may be charged for the engineer visit. Were you warned that there could be a charge if it was the house wiring at fault?

If the fault is anywhere before the master then you should be in the clear. Is it certain there are only the two extensions, and there isn't another run from a junction box between the cable reaching the house and the master?

A bridge tap (or bridged tap, you can use either/or) occurs if the cable pair is split off in multiple directions before the modem. Makes no difference whether this is before or after the master socket, as the DSL signal is still going to travel down both the extensions.

The easiest fix would be for the OP to lose one of the extension sockets, then the engineer would crimp the incoming pair through to the extension where the modem is placed, thus rendering the current master socket dead and fitting a new NTE and SSFP where the extension is.

Of course, this is assuming that each of the extension wires is connected through to a single extension socket.

The engineer would do exactly what I suggested unless asked to do something different. That is why the Mk3 and I think the Mk2 have the user-available A/B terminals.

You also forget that the non-router extension is the one where the phone is required. You would disconnect that.

Just in the door from work and can only go on the notes that my mother has quickly jotted down.

The engineer stated there were too many errors in the living room socket (extension), so swapped it around with the Master socket from the lobby - now we have the Master Openreach branded socket in the living room - with the lobby "master" socket and the extension in the kitchen now disconnected.

The engineer also stated he wasn't happy with the wiring from the lobby to the living room (not sure why - anyone have an idea?), but said if any problems persist he may have to come back and change the wiring from the small white box just inside the front door - rewiring from there around the living room to the router. Seems like too much hassle to me.

Also, I asked BT before hand if there would be a charge and they stated no, so we will see!

At the moment everything is running smoothly and will continue to monitor for 10 days.

I have included the stats I can find below, if they are any use to anyone.

1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068543+NQ61103283
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A) Last updated 17/06/16
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:44:11
6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 27744 / 83791
8. Noise margin: 15.2 / 7.8
9. Line attenuation: 11.3 / 10.2
10. Signal attenuation: 11.4 / 10.2
11. Data sent/received: 0.7 MB / 1.4 MB
12. Broadband username: [email protected]
13. BT Wi-fi: Yes

_____________________________

DSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 01:05:37
Downstream: 78.12 Mbps
Upstream: 19.53 Mbps

_____________________________

Throughput speedtest from BTW showing:
Download speed (Mbps) = 74.22
Upload speed (Mbps) = 10.86
Ping Latency (ms) = 42.13

_____________________________

Thanks all for your sharing your knowledge.

Those look a lot healthier. He may have initiated a DLM reset as well though, so if there are any exterior bad influences you may get a bit of a drop in a couple of days.

Odd that he disconnected the kitchen - I assume that was where the phone was. He will be concerned about the actual wires from the lobby to the living room as they will be standard telephone cable. When they do extensions for VDSL2 they used CAT 5 IIRC.

Did he fit a Mk3 filter plate, or leave you dangly?

Does it matter that the phone now has to be in the living room? With a Mk3 on the moved master it would be almost risk-free and probably fairly easy to reconnect it. If doing that did affect things even easier just to disconnect it again. (That's why I've struck out the early bit. The engineer will have wanted as safe a setup as he could manage, giving his concern about the wires themselves).

Best to leave that sort of thing for a couple of months and make sure all is now well before doing anything like that.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 20-Jun-16 19:54:36)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Those look a lot healthier. He may have initiated a DLM reset as well though, so if there are any exterior bad influences you may get a bit of a drop in a couple of days.

Odd that he disconnected the kitchen - I assume that was where the phone was. He will be concerned about the actual wires from the lobby to the living room as they will be standard telephone cable. When they do extensions for VDSL2 they used CAT 5 IIRC.

Did he fit a Mk3 filter plate, or leave you dangly?

Does it matter that the phone now has to be in the living room? With a Mk3 on the moved master it would be almost risk-free and probably fairly easy to reconnect it. If doing that did affect things even easier just to disconnect it again. (That's why I've struck out the early bit. The engineer will have wanted as safe a setup as he could manage, giving his concern about the wires themselves).

Best to leave that sort of thing for a couple of months and make sure all is now well before doing anything like that.

As far as I can see he has swapped the actual boxes over, with the Openreach master now in the living room - with the plain old all-in-one faceplate now in the lobby - which I believe has nothing connected in the back.

As for having the telephone in the living room it's no problem at all, but I do remember why it was moved to the kitchen in the first place... Damn answer machine!

I did wonder about the CAT 5 cable but I'll leave things be for a month or so and hope all goes well. If it does drop 10Mb or so I won't be going through the hassle of changing all the cabling etc.

Thanks again, Roberto, terrific insight

Does the one in the lobby have a dial tone? I wouldn't expect it to now. If it does, then connecting the kitchen should be no problem, as long as you fit a Mk3 at the master.

But still leave well alone for a couple of months.