I should be clear, using bell wire also causes interference at the master socket too. So it's really good to get it removed.

Speeds are unlikely to be hugely affected (if at all) once you make the adjustments. Just remember for future, BT is only liable up to the master, so if a fault develops try the master socket before reporting to service provider, else if the faults on the extension wiring you'll be paying the repair bill.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I should be clear, using bell wire also causes interference at the master socket too. So it's really good to get it removed.

Speeds are unlikely to be hugely affected (if at all) once you make the adjustments. Just remember for future, BT is only liable up to the master, so if a fault develops try the master socket before reporting to service provider, else if the faults on the extension wiring you'll be paying the repair bill.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In the next room? Unless the extension cabling goes all the way round the house via the loft, negligible once you get rid of the ring wires.

Let us know what happens to your ADSLx speed . Is it ADSL or ADSL2+?

Okay so I removed the (2) ring wires from the master and one which appeared to be in the back of the extension (extension which only the home hub is connected to) - should that have been there? Haven't had another look behind the extension in which the phone is connected to but shall first thing in the morning, if there is a ring wire here should it be removed also? (which could be why the results below are so)

Opened Hub manager, and downstream/upstream noise margins etc. all seem to be the same as before. Can post screenshots if need be.

Also I am on ADSL2+ at the moment.

Thanks again folks.

Yes, the wires on T3 at the master each go to an extension. Very often there will only be one set of wires at the master though, with the extensions daisy-chained. It isn't usually necessary to remove the ring wire at the extensions because any noise it picks up doesn't get onto the line itself anywhere but at T3 of the master socket. Barring a couple of very strange cases I've seen where disconnecting at the extensions as well. It does no harm to remove it.

The noise margins and attenuations should be basically unchanged. The attenuation on ADSL2+ is a function of the line length from the exchange and the physical type of the wires in that line. As in copper or aluminium throughout or in parts, and the thickness of the wires.

The noise margin at sync time is set by the exchange equipment and is controlled by the DLM (Dynamic Line Management) system. Once the sync is made it will then vary a bit 24/7 as the actual electromagnetic noise varies.

What I expected to change was the connection speed. It's usually at least 500kbps increase on ADSL and possibly 750kbps on ADSL2+. The highest improvement I've ever seen on these forums was 2Mbps, but several of 1.5Mbps. on ADSL2+ I would expect to see 1Mbps or more in most cases.

Check your noise margin tomorrow well inside daylight hours but before dusk and see if it has risen by more than 2-3dB. If it has, it's worth a single re-sync.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 13-Jun-16 00:14:24)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yes, the wires on T3 at the master each go to an extension. Very often there will only be one set of wires at the master though, with the extensions daisy-chained. It isn't usually necessary to remove the ring wire at the extensions because any noise it picks up doesn't get onto the line itself anywhere but at T3 of the master socket. Barring a couple of very strange cases I've seen where disconnecting at the extensions as well. It does no harm to remove it.

The noise margins and attenuations should be basically unchanged. The attenuation on ADSL2+ is a function of the line length from the exchange and the physical type of the wires in that line. As in copper or aluminium throughout or in parts, and the thickness of the wires.

The noise margin at sync time is set by the exchange equipment and is controlled by the DLM (Dynamic Line Management) system. Once the sync is made it will then vary a bit 24/7 as the actual electromagnetic noise varies.

What I expected to change was the connection speed. It's usually at least 500kbps increase on ADSL and possibly 750kbps on ADSL2+. The highest improvement I've ever seen on these forums was 2Mbps, but several of 1.5Mbps. on ADSL2+ I would expect to see 1Mbps or more in most cases.

Check your noise margin tomorrow well inside daylight hours but before dusk and see if it has risen by more than 2-3dB. If it has, it's worth a single re-sync.

Thanks for explaining so clearly. I'll leave it for tonight and have a look tomorrow to see if anything changes - the fibre countdown is on, i better not miss the postie on Wednesday

It the extensions are daisy-chained and you connect a router at one of the intermediation sockets then it can have a fairly severed effect on VDSL sync speed as you have a "bridged tap". The severity will depend on the length of the effectively unterminated (at VDSL frequencies) wire and which particularly frequencies are impacted.

To give an idea of the impact of this, at my normal socket in my study area on the end of about 8m of cat5e cable my line syncs at about 56mbps (which is consistent with the reported attenuation). If I move the router to the master socket, I get a reported increase in attenuation and the line syncs at about 36Mbps.

The impact of such (relatively short) bridged tap tends to be much worse at VDSL frequencies than at ADSL frequencies.

So my recommendation is that the VDSL socket should be the very last unfiltered socket. If there are any extensions beyond your chosen VDSL socket then filter them. Any non BB extensions from the master really ought to be filtered due to this bridged tape effect (and it will be more critical on VDSL than ADSL).

Of course if the signal is strong, then the bell-wire fix alone might work.

nb. my parents have a house with a similar master socket but, fortunately, all he extensions were connected via the front socket (the plug-in cable simply went to a junction box thence to the many extensions). I simply installed a filtered extension socket and fed all the voice extensions via the filtered output and the one BB extension (to their study) from the unfiltered output where I installed another filtered socket to provide for both phone and BB. Replacing the extension cable would have been difficult. It seems to work with minimal extra loss despite not being UTP, but they are still on ADSL2 as that's adequate for their needs.

There would be ways of tidying all this up by using such a filtered extension socket, but the neatness depends on the details of existing cable runs and space available.

Guys, just to put this thread to bed.

Switched over today and so far no problems. Currently sitting at a steady 71/11Mb on wireless, with the router connected via microfilter into the hardwired extension.

Thanks all for your help leading up to this and for the suggestions. Much appreciated.

Michael

That sounds good .

(Did you check if the ADSL2+ speed went up in the interim?)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That sounds good .

(Did you check if the ADSL2+ speed went up in the interim?)

Yeah, sometimes when I ran the checker it showed 11Mb, 2 minutes later it'd say 4Mb - chopping and changing all the time..

What?

What checker? I'm talking about the connection speed/sync, not throughput. As we discussed earlier about a daylight resync.

Sorry.

Was still showing as 14 through the home hub manager, with a noise level of 17dB.

Now syncing at 74/19 with a line attenuation 14.1 / 12.9

Noise down 3dB?