FTTP ISP - am I stuck with BT

Hello, our new build house will be finished soon an Openreach are rolling out FTTP to the estate. Excellent news, however I have some questions.

The list of FTTP ISPs is pretty short and only BT seem to show anything over 80Mb/s. Are BT the only ISP offering 200 or even 300Mb/s download speeds?

Am I able to get a static IP Address with BT?

I assume I'm stuck with FTTP as copper cables will not be installed?

Thanks

On FTTP (full fibre only areas) then yes no ADSL2+ since that needs copper.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/jump.html?type=5&url=h... should allow you to order Infinity1, 2, 3 or 4 as a new customer.

Sometimes the BT Retail shop can present varying views, but that link above does offer all four speeds starting at up to 52 Mbps. Many comparison listings have no idea about FTTP and don't link to the FTTP pages.

PlusNet is another option, as are more SME focussed providers like AAISP, Zen, IDNet, Spectrum Internet

Thank you.

I was already aware of the BT packages but none of the other ISPs seem to list any packages faster than 80Mb/s hence my question.

So if I want 300Mb/s does that mean that BT is my only option?

I'd love infinity 4.. It's a shame we don't all get the chance to order it - that price is really good.

At consumer level pricing yes

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/zen/package/1650.html Zen Unlimited Fibre Office 3 (FTTP) and Phone Package is £118.80 per month

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

At consumer level pricing yes

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/zen/package/1650.html Zen Unlimited Fibre Office 3 (FTTP) and Phone Package is £118.80 per month

Thanks, this is a shame as I really dislike BT in general. We are also having the option of Virgin Media but I'm not overly keen on them either.

How important is higher than 80/20Mbps. Bearing in mind those are actual connection speeds, not "up to"s.

It's also worth checking whether the faster options have any throughput "promises", or whether they are just burst speeds. There may be an Openreach caveat about that, such as only 80Mbps being sustainable.

Good point.

Anyone know what fttp is in the tech sense?

I mean is it GPON ITU G.984 or something else. If it is GPON 2.4 gig down, 1.2 up, then how many splits do openreach do in real deployments.

its GPON with 2.4Gbps shared via 32 way splits

Ahh, thank you.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How important is higher than 80/20Mbps. Bearing in mind those are actual connection speeds, not "up to"s.

It's also worth checking whether the faster options have any throughput "promises", or whether they are just burst speeds. There may be an Openreach caveat about that, such as only 80Mbps being sustainable.

It's not hugely important, but it's what I want. I want to make the most of the new FTTP infrastructure. I am an IT Consultant and I work from home quite a lot plus in the new house I want to make use f home automation and CCTV so having a decent internet connection is important and the extra speed will be a huge bonus. The cost is around £20pm more than we pay now.

We currently get around 70/20Mb/s with our EE FTTC service and generally speaking it's been quite reliable.

I noticed yesterday that a report on ISPs was released with their customer satisfaction ratings. BT came quite low and VM came quite high so maybe I should consider Virgin Media.

As EE is owned by BT now you are already with them. I have an 80 / 20 FTTP service with BT and it is quite capable of running 4 Olympics BBC streams to my iMac while I am on a VOIP conference call and permanently connected to the work systems at home. So I am not sure that you really need 300 / 30 unless you are really shifting a large amount of data.

I would consider the connection quality and router quality as the most important factor. I've had broadband since I moved into my house 4 years ago and have never once had to speak to BT, it just works.

My parents have lived in their house since the 70s and to my recollection since I've been around they've never had a fault of any kind, voice or broadband!

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I would consider the connection quality and router quality as the most important factor. I've had broadband since I moved into my house 4 years ago and have never once had to speak to BT, it just works.

My parents have lived in their house since the 70s and to my recollection since I've been around they've never had a fault of any kind, voice or broadband!

You'll always here that though. I know people with the opposite experience of BT.

What about the Zen Home Options? Home 80/20 FTTP for £30pm plus £16.99 voice

That's what I mean though, I could so with another provider if I don't want 200-300Mb/s. But it seems that only BT offer those speeds on FTTP. Unless I go with VM and ditch FTTP completely which would be a shame I think.

Are the BT HomeHub's any good?

The HomeHubs have a variable reputation generally wireless issues, but as the fibre ONT on FTTP just needs a PPPoE session you can use your own hardware to improve wireless and router reliability if you want.

The BT Home Hub's are built for the general person so may seem very locked down if you are used to configuring your own routers. Some like them some don't.
However BT Consumer don't force you to use their modem routers, you can use a third party router instead (just technical support may ask you to reconnect the Home Hub when asking for support).

That's good to know, thanks.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

its GPON with 2.4Gbps shared via 32 way splits

So is that contended locally? Theoretically if all 32 splits download at once, the bandwidth could be as low as 75mbps per user?

In reply to a post by PiKe:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

its GPON with 2.4Gbps shared via 32 way splits

So is that contended locally? Theoretically if all 32 splits download at once, the bandwidth could be as low as 75mbps per user?

Not too sure, I know we have 4 fibres going into our Splitter Node and each of those 4 fibres have a downstream speed of 2.5Gbps and an upstream of 1.2Gbps and each of those 4 fibres are split 32 times.

So 2.5Gbps (2,500,000,000) / 32 = 78.125Mbps downstream and 1.2Gbps (1,200,000,000) / 32 = 37.5Mbps upstream and that's the speeds everyone would get if everyone with 300 / 20 hammered their connection.

Paul

If I recall correctly, the minimum download speed for 330 is 80Mb, for 220 & 80 it is 40Mb. (The minimum speed is that which below you can log a line speed fault)
Even FTTP is sold as "UP TO" a speed.

That fits my recall (without finding source docs).

But yes FTTH/FTTP is up to still, unless it is sold and provisioned with 1:1 contention i.e. a leased line.

All FTTH does is remove the uncertainty over connection speeds, it does remove the reality that providers never have enough capacity for all users to use full capacity at the same time (maybe the odd exception with new start-ups when the first 2,000 are connected out of 100,000 they hope to reach).

In many of the FTTB deployments across the globe, lots are such that people have 1 Gbps to their apartment, but the fibre leaving the building is still just a 1 Gbps link or maybe 2 x 1 Gbps. Hence why average speeds in countries with lots of gigabit connectivity are not in the 500 to 600 Mbps region.

That's very interesting, I never thought about that.

On our development there will eventually be 199 homes but I don't know the amount of cable coming into the node. Is there anyway to find this out?

Which provider/technology are you talking about?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Which provider/technology are you talking about?

FTTP.

More than enough to provide the capacity for Openreach FTTP (assuming its Openreach involved) GPON on current standards, and ready for hardware swaps to support faster 10 Gbps PON standards in the future.

The capacity in the local access segment is likely to be a LOT better than what individual providers budget for.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

More than enough to provide the capacity for Openreach FTTP (assuming its Openreach involved) GPON on current standards, and ready for hardware swaps to support faster 10 Gbps PON standards in the future.

The capacity in the local access segment is likely to be a LOT better than what individual providers budget for.

Yes it is Openreach, I had a brief chat with one of the engineers yesterday as they were installing ONTs into the first few houses.

Good to know though. Thanks.

I think the 10 Gbps PON will be when they increase the overall speeds of FTTP, this will probably happen when G.FAST goes live for the FTTC people.
Well I am assuming here.

That "would" give FTTP a minimal speed of 312.5Mbps if everyone hammered their connection, this is also assuming that a single fibre stand going into the splitter node is still split into 32 strands.

Paul

I'm happy enough with my 75Mbps average download speed on FTTP, and it is sufficient for my household currently. Though if I did move provider I would go for the 330/30 option for future proofing.
Issues with congestion at the exchange/provider gateways are more pressing to me, tonight TBB speed test is like a picture of the Alps and the average has dropped to 55Mbps. Start of the long nights and football on IPTV saturating the providers bandwidth.

Hi,
No there are other providers that offer FTTP regardless on what others may say, it all depends on costs etc

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

Hi,
No there are other providers that offer FTTP regardless on what others may say, it all depends on costs etc

Not if you want more than 80mb/s

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

Hi,
No there are other providers that offer FTTP regardless on what others may say, it all depends on costs etc

Not if you want more than 80mb/s

Really?

I beg to differ

Well happy to be proven wrong, that's the point in this thread, to find out what alternatives there are to BT. However that company wants over twice what BT offer for the same service.

Perhaps I should of used instead

However you are right they are very expensive.

Out of interest, how much do BT Retail charge for a 330/30 connection? Do you "have" to take their line rental?

BT Infinity 4 - 300/30 - £52 /mth
12-month contract
£18.99/mth line rental
No Activation fee

Just comparing the broadband cost, it's £52 vs £130.

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Oct-16 10:31:37)

Just realised that's £156 including VAT. (£130.50 without). Plus £100 activation fee.

Zen do the faster FTTP too, but at business level pricing

Thanks for pinting that out

So with Zen it's £99.00 +VAT per month when taken with £17.00+VAT monthly line rental

So £139.20 plus a £25 activation charge.

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

However that company wants over twice what BT offer for the same service.

Is it the same service? IDNet have Lite, Pro and Pro Plus. You are using the Pro Plus pricing. I can't find BT Business pricing for native FTTP at the moment but on FTTC they do have at least two levels..

Thanks to this thread, I've just discovered (for the first time) that there are alternatives to BT for FTTP in my area.

While not quite being 'stuck' as the OP asked, is it simply a matter of cost that is stopping any of the other usual suspects, e.g. Sky, TalkTalk, from offering an alternative to BT in my area?

See the recent News Item on the main site which might help explain why Sky, TT, etc. don't currently offer FTTP.

In reply to a post by MCM:

See the recent News Item on the main site which might help explain why Sky, TT, etc. don't currently offer FTTP.

That's good news. I'm going to have to cancel my contract with EE currently when we move house and we won't be able to have an FTTC service.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

However that company wants over twice what BT offer for the same service.

Is it the same service? IDNet have Lite, Pro and Pro Plus. You are using the Pro Plus pricing. I can't find BT Business pricing for native FTTP at the moment but on FTTC they do have at least two levels..

Well OK, the services may not be identical, I was mainly talking about speed. Both packages are for the same speeds. With iDNet You get static IPs and supposedly a better level of support, but most other things are extra. £100 activation fee is also 4 times higher than Zen.

Well depending on what FTTP option you pick, the lower ones have an activation fee.

Paul

Which service are you talking about?

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

Which service are you talking about?

Oh, I forgot to say BT, my bad

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

Which service are you talking about?

Oh, I forgot to say BT, my bad

Paul

Ah OK, well I'm looking at BT Infinity 4.

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

Which service are you talking about?

Oh, I forgot to say BT, my bad

Paul

Ah OK, well I'm looking at BT Infinity 4.

Yeah, that's what we ordered on August 12th, sadly we all got exception tags put on our openreach records due to a build issue at our splitter node which they found out during our install, it has since then been resolved and signed off as complete, sadly my records is the only one that is still flagged with that old build issue that no longer exists

So lets hope you don't get hit by that issue.

Paul

Fingers crossed. I know at least 5 other houses that are already connected.

If you keep telling people on here daily what your situation is I'm sure it'll speed up the provision

In reply to a post by lee111s:

If you keep telling people on here daily what your situation is I'm sure it'll speed up the provision

LOL

Paul

In reply to a post by puntoboy:

Am I able to get a static IP Address with BT?

No..

I have FTTP Infinity 4 and the only bug bear is non static IP address. I use DYN for this service.

IPV6 IP addresses though via the HH6.

AIUI you can from BT Business.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

AIUI you can from BT Business.

Yes you can, but the price jumps buy about £100 for the business Infinity 4 package. It's a far bigger increase than other packages.

Did you see the re-jigged IDNet packages

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/idnet.html

Just for your information, I've had Infinity option 3 for over two years now. I found your post by looking for the same answer to your question, looking for other options.
I've never really had a problem with BT, other than the wifi dropping on our Apple devices.
Speed 90% of the time hits 200mb DL and 20-21mb UL.

....so an update to your signage required then ?

So we are finally in our new house and have been since the 9th December. And guess what, after being assured the fibre would be connected and ready for us to order Infinity, it wasn't. Apparently there was some confusion over what splitter and manifold we were going to be connected to. Openreach attended site on Thursday and Friday last week to sort it out and since Friday night we've have a flashing green PON light on the ONT.

This light has turned solid green at some point today however according to the Openreach checker and BT we still cannot order broadband, even though the Openreach engineer on Friday said we could.

Any ideas how I can get this sorted ASAP? I work from home and need a broadband connection.

The checker seems to be updated in batch mode, overnight. It can take a day or two for operational changes to filter their way through the BT systems into the checker.

Did you have an Openreach contact to get the fixes done last week? They'd be best placed to tell you the timescales from here on.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

The checker seems to be updated in batch mode, overnight. It can take a day or two for operational changes to filter their way through the BT systems into the checker.

Did you have an Openreach contact to get the fixes done last week? They'd be best placed to tell you the timescales from here on.

We don't have a contact, as Openreach won't talk to us, but the developer does, who they say they have spoken with. I'm still waiting for an update.

If you have a solid pon light it should just be a couple of days for the databases to marry up.

If not joy your chose ISP can chase Openreach using the serial number of your ONT.

Thanks. Andrew said the same when I emailed him. Annoying this isn't instant.

BT have a three week lead time on chasing Openreach apparently.

On the OR checker it currently says Exploring Solutions. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Good news! I was able to place an order this morning. Luckily I decided to place this order over the phone saving myself £23/m and a 12 month contract... (£48 instead of the £71 on the website).

Bad news is I have to wait until Friday for it to activate even though I've already got a router I can use.

@puntoboy
Which number did you phone to get the deal?

The FTTP sales team.

0800 5874787

Cheers