Battery backup backup

The Openreach engineer who connected up our fibre service the other day suggested that the BBU would provide backup power for only about an hour. Having had experience of numerous power cuts here lasting hours and in one case two weeks, this seemed woefully under-specified.
Say I wanted to keep the ONT plus one laptop running for 48 hours use, can anyone suggest a suitable arrangement?
Given:
That the router would be disconnected and the laptop plugged directly into the ONT;
That laptop and ONT would only be powered during use, so the 48 hours could be eked out over a longer period;
That no generator is available and there is no PV power source.
That in this case, two separate power supplies would be convenient - one for laptop, the other for ONT;
That all communication is over fibre and no copper phone line exists;
That the disaster that befell the local power supply failed to disrupt the fibre network.
Or should I be looking for a Survivalist site with this question?

Mobile phone?

Buy a UPS at whatever rating you need for the duration/power consumption required.

Possibly with Wind, Solar and similar supplementary charging to the UPS.

You can charge a mobile phone in a car.

As someone who has worked on data centre power contingency, you will need a generator.
Battery backup is only meant to allow sufficient time for the graceful shutdown of equipment or to cover the time frame in which the generators can kick in.
If you really only see batteries as the solution, then you could look at the large leisure batteries used in RV/boats and do the maths to see how many you would need to handle your requirements.

If its FTTP the BBU takes pencil batteries, so just buy loads of rechargeable ones and when they go flat replace them with charged ones.

I am thinking of getting a SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) Battery for ours for when there is power cuts.

If the pencil batteries only last an hour then the ONT etc must be drawing around 800mA to 1 Amp, but that depends on how good the rechargeable batteries are that are fitted to the BBU.

Paul

In reply to a post by sandcastle:

The Openreach engineer who connected up our fibre service the other day suggested that the BBU would provide backup power for only about an hour. Having had experience of numerous power cuts here lasting hours and in one case two weeks, this seemed woefully under-specified.

I would disagree with that. It is not BTs job to provide power for devices in your house that is the job of the power distribution companies. The battery back up is to provide continuity of power for short periods such as if you needed to power off the house or a breaker tripped, or a short local power outage and to allow for a clean shut-down of the connection and potentially attached equipment.

Question - Does the BBU provide power to enable network access? There was a proposal that it only supplied power to the ATA within the modem/ONT for FVA? Not having FTTP I can't try it!

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati...

Edited by ferretuk (Thu 29-Sep-16 09:41:02)

I always thought telco's had to provide the capability to be able to make phone calls during power outages which is why corded phones are powered via the phone line. I have a cordless phone and the base has battery backup so it can still be used during power outages.

Edited by simon194 (Thu 29-Sep-16 10:07:56)

I have not tested it but the ONTE documentation certainly states that when on BBU only the phone access is maintained and the network is not.

You already have the power source (car) I assume? So if you want to keep internet access for a laptop during a power out then a USB mobile dongle + a car adapter/charger or inverter for less than £25 would work. Although a mobile dongle would is not that cheap to use on a regular basis, but a lot less than £100's or a lot more on a UPS backup system that would almost never get used.
Alternatively an iPad or similar with a sim card can be powered or charged from a car and then used indoors or buy a couple of powerbanks to charge from the car and use to supplement the iPad indoors. Also if you have got an iPad or other tablet then its got 365 day use as a bonus.

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Sep-16 10:53:19)

In reply to a post by brightd:

I have not tested it but the ONTE documentation certainly states that when on BBU only the phone access is maintained and the network is not.

This is what I was told.

Easy solution, get a UPS and connect the power supply to it, then BBU won't get used and the ONT will still function normally. That said if the power is out over a wide area, how long to the modes have power for?

Is the phone through fibre as well as the FTTP, or is there a copper phone line?

If there is copper then an ADSLx backup connection with UPS may be an idea.

Coping with a two-week failure is definitely generator level. Not just for the broadband. How about central heating systems in the winter?

Often better to relocate if needing connectivity for a full working day, certainly running an inverter from the car is not a very efficient method, since if for any extended period you would need the engine running with attendant costs/risks.

If modes means nodes, for FTTP they are passive, and the exchanges where FTTP links back to backhaul should have extensive battery backup plus generator options.

Just to add , a post later rightly states that the purpose of the BBU is to power the ONTE for the purpose of running the FVA service .

Fair point, but could still use a charger rather than an inverter in the car to top up battery so then can relocate to house to use. If you have a second battery even better.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If modes means nodes, for FTTP they are passive, and the exchanges where FTTP links back to backhaul should have extensive battery backup plus generator options.

Yes Nodes sorry. But that's good to know. Thanks.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Just to add , a post later rightly states that the purpose of the BBU is to power the ONTE for the purpose of running the FVA service .

Am I right in thinking that FVA is a separate service that attracts a significant extra charge?

You are correct, it's a legal requirement for fixed line operators to provide access to emergency services numbers during a power failure. For how long is unclear. Also, this legislation dates back from long before there were ubiquitous mobile phones. In addition, many people have fixed phones which don't work without mains power. DECT base stations with battery back-up are in a distinct minority.

Rather interesting VOIP operators are (explicitly) not required to provide this service, so those operators providing purely BB access don't have to provide any emergency service access in a power cut. They also don't have to provide location information for the emergency services.

I decided that a generator was essential to meet the issues that sandcastle has addressed, and to address the 2 or 3 power failures we seem to have every year. I am also trying to future-proof to some extent as I believe that we may well have many more power cuts in the next few years.

A new report finds that 28 nuclear reactors, 18 of them EDF plants in France and one at Sizewell in the UK, are at risk of failure 'including core meltdown' due to flaws in safety-critical components in reactor vessels and steam generators, writes Oliver Tickell. The news comes as EDF credit is downgraded due to a growing cash flow crisis and its decision to press on with Hinkley C.

The problem is that diesel or petrol can't be stored for long. I opted for LPG gas, but town/natural gas was an attractive alternative.

Couple that with an automatic transfer switch which switches automatically between the mains supply and the generator set, when there is a power outage. A UPS to cover the few seconds during which the automatic transfer switch operates; and you are covered.

I have the generator & a manual change-over switch, and am intending to install an automatic change over switch shortly.

I may need to buy a gun to keep the neighbours out in the winter !

NJSS

Just to say that the bbu should provide 24 hours power to the ont in the event of a power cut, not 1 hour.

Sorry, no idea, I just fit and maintain the stuff .....

Though at a guess, I'd have thought it cost the same as a normal DEL.

Not according to BT

In reference to bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/36953:

The battery back-up unit (BBU) will be provided by the engineer when your Openreach fibre modem is installed. It enables your fibre home phone line to continue working in the event of a mains power cut in your home. This means you will still be able to make and receive calls for up to an hour.

If its FTTP the BBU takes pencil batteries, so just buy loads of rechargeable ones and when they go flat replace them with charged ones.

What are you on about Paul ??

The mains power goes into the BBU, then links to the ONTE ....... Hence it covers when the mains drops.

Your 'scheme' sees the ONTE fully lose power every time you change the batteries DOH ?!?!?!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If its FTTP the BBU takes pencil batteries, so just buy loads of rechargeable ones and when they go flat replace them with charged ones.

What are you on about Paul ??

The mains power goes into the BBU, then links to the ONTE ....... Hence it covers when the mains drops.

Your 'scheme' sees the ONTE fully lose power every time you change the batteries DOH ?!?!?!

The OP was wondering how to keep it running when the power drops and there was mention that the BBU will only last an hour, so they was wondering how to keep it running longer, with FTTP you have no issues re-syncing like you do with FTTC or ADSL, so there would be no issues re-syncing with the new batteries every time the last lot goes flat.

That's what I was getting at.

I apologize if I have confused people.

Paul

Sandcastle

The FVA service is exactly the same price as the copper service, it is still covered by the OFCOM price controls and is treated as the same regardless of delivery mechanism.

The BBU has to be for a minimum of 1 hour by OFCOM requirement although they were talking about removing this due to the ubiquity of mobile coverage, ( we could argue about that).
Talktalk/Sky want to remove it to decrease the price for FTTP,( in some discussion document some time in the last 12 months).

If you are out for weeks at a time you should be making a lot from the utility penalty payments that should subsidise tha cost of the generator you require. ( Or wind turbine)