Connecting to the master socket

Hi
My BT master socket has an external RJ 9 socket and an internal single pair connector.

Using the internal connector would look neater, but which is better to connect my openreach modem to ?

Thanks

What is an RJ9 connector ?

I think he means RJ45

Think I should have said rj11

My Bt Openreach Nte5a Master Socket has an RJ45 socket at the top and a BS6312 431A phone socket at the bottom.

I plug the modem lead RJ11 plug into the top RJ45 socket and don't use the internal connector as that would involve a krone tool.

Using a Krone tool isn't an issue.

Just wondering if either connector would give a better connection.
I'll try internal to start and see how I get on.

Use the RJ45 connector.

The modem will have an RJ input which will need a connector and associated lead. The lead will be multi-stranded cables and NOT suitable for connection to an IDC.

My master socket has one RJ11 and one BT Connector.
On the inside there is a Krone strip for a single pair.

I've made a cable that connects from the openreach modem and connects to the single pair connector.
(the cable is solid and not stranded)

Only reason to do this was to move the openreach modem nearer the master and plug it in to a mains socket on a different circuit to the main house.

My pfSense router has detected the connection and reconnected without issue.

Thanks

Will make no difference to the connection as to whether you use the unfiltered IDC or unfiltered RJ45 socket

Solid wire is generally unsuitable for connecting to an RJ11 plug for the modem.

Cowboy connections ...

Is the RJ connector designed for use with solid conductors - almost certainly not.

It reads as though they have used the krone connections correctly

But what about the modem end?

Actually no. The connector is there to take a feed to a separate data socket and not a flying lead.


And bodged the RJ connector

Edited by MHC (Sun 08-Jan-17 12:43:46)

There are RJ45 & RJ11 connectors available for either solid or stranded cable, both are equally valid to use depending upon the application. A quick search around consumer sale sites shows that the majority offered for sale are in fact for use with solid cable.

I know that, however probably 99.99% of those used are the standard stranded conductor ones. Have you ever seen the solid conductor versions available off the shelf in somewhere like Maplin?

If I read your description correctly, the IDC pair you have used is there to provide an unfiltered (data) extension socket. Originally using the Openreach "Home Wiring Solution", previously called (even by Openreach) a Data Extension Kit. As confirmation, are they labelled A/B?

As MrSaffron says, completely pointless compared to the DSL socket at the top of your faceplate.

Openreach would never install a second master socket, its intention was for a data socket via an extension lead the engineers carried that could be trimmed down from the 30m supplied length.

Just use the RJ11 connector on the front as everyone here suggests.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I know that, however probably 99.99% of those used are the standard stranded conductor ones. Have you ever seen the solid conductor versions available off the shelf in somewhere like Maplin?

Ive never used Maplins, however, the first relevant item upon searching their site yields this in the item description
"Product details

Maplin Cat 5/Cat 5e Shielded Cable RJ45 Connectors 10 Pack

RJ45 crimp-on connectors for use with shielded, stranded twisted pair network cable. A clever design with separate cable guide that allows cores to be aligned in the correct order easily before insertion and crimping. Connections are 50µ" gold plated for reliability. For Cat 6 cabling, use Order Code N19CH (for stranded cables) or N20CH (for solid cables)."

So it would appear that their intended consumer group do, in fact, have a choice.

edited ...

Local branch - not stocked. And who would be using Cat6 cable for a flying lead.

I was making the point that Maplin do offer their intended consumer groups choice of connector for stranded or solid, clearly not suggesting those are the correct items to use, hence why I said 'the first relevant item', I'm sure your inner pedant knew that though.

For info, I've emailed one of my on-call comms. Tech's as to why they would use solid cable for 'flying leads' the answer is due to loss of signal in stranded cable patch leads over 2 metres - and as to why you'd need patch leads over two metres, well you only need to take a look at any server room that has been 'revised' more than once.

Rubbish. As most of the current tends to flow on the outer layers of each strand - skin effect, then a straded cable will offer a lower impedance than a solid one. However, overall an Cat5e or Cat 6 cable should be able to provide full inspec operation over a length of up to 100m - and that applies to both stranded and solid.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Rubbish. As most of the current tends to flow on the outer layers of each strand - skin effect, then a straded cable will offer a lower impedance than a solid one. However, overall an Cat5e or Cat 6 cable should be able to provide full inspec operation over a length of up to 100m - and that applies to both stranded and solid.

Agreed.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Rubbish. As most of the current tends to flow on the outer layers of each strand - skin effect, then a straded cable will offer a lower impedance than a solid one. However, overall an Cat5e or Cat 6 cable should be able to provide full inspec operation over a length of up to 100m - and that applies to both stranded and solid.

care to provide any reference for that supposition?
An 'opinion' from a manufacturer used by one of our subsidiaries.
http://www.cat-5-cable-company.com/faq-stranded-VS-s...

Another 'opinion' from http://www.scpcat5e.com/solid-vs-stranded-category-c...

Stranded Category Cables have a higher attenuation than solid category cables. Depending on your application, you should restrict their use to short distances. SCP recommends that you use stranded category cables for applications under 6 meters/ 20 feet. We manufacture long length stranded Cat5e and stranded Cat6 cables up to 100 ft/30 meters, but their use should be restricted to non-HD applications.

I suggest you wind your opinionated neck in.

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Jan-17 15:13:20)

The plug I've used is designed for solid cables.

Since my fibre was installed 4 years ago, I've used one pair of solid CAT5E cable from the IDC to a socket in a different room. From there I've linked to my modem. This has always worked fine.

Now I have a length of the same cable linking from the IDC and terminated on a RJ11. This is connected to the openreach modem. From the modem iconnect to a pfSence router.

Everything is working fine.

Which is exactly what I'd expect. 'non -standard' doesn't necessarily equate to wrong, just not within the 99th percentile of usage cases.

Still a cowboy way of doing it in my opinion.
Run a cable to a data extension socket and from there connect in the rj11 cable.

I'm not saying it'll cause any issues the way it has been done, it's just not ideal. The op came here for advice which we all provided, if the advice followed here was implemented BT openreach would not blink an eye lid at the setup, doing it the way the op has will cause an openreach engineer to frown.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Rubbish. As most of the current tends to flow on the outer layers of each strand - skin effect, then a straded cable will offer a lower impedance than a solid one. However, overall an Cat5e or Cat 6 cable should be able to provide full inspec operation over a length of up to 100m - and that applies to both stranded and solid.

Unfortunately this is also rubbish. A regular stranded cable where the individual stands are not insulated from each other will act in a similar way to a solid wire of the same overall dimension since eddy currents can flow between the strands.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

doing it the way the op has will cause an openreach engineer to frown.

It was the original openreach engineer who did the original run when my fibre was first installed.

Would a CAT5 socket work better than terminating into a plug ?
Or can you link to a data connection socket ?

Thanks

I would personally get a socket move done but that's just me, I always say do it once, do it right. BT have offered to move mine for free at my new home.

Alternatively I would have a CAT5 socket yes, and an RJ11 cable out of that.

In reply to a post by MrPete:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

doing it the way the op has will cause an openreach engineer to frown.

It was the original openreach engineer who did the original run when my fibre was first installed.

Which is exactly what MrSaffron, myself, and at least one other have described to you as the purpose of that IDC connection inside. To run a data extension cable.

So I suggest you stop being so arty-farty and thinking yourself clever than all of us - you through ignorance have undone a perfectly good installation and done yourself no good at all.

With luck, neither have you caused any degradation.

Assuming you have completely disconnected that engineer-installed extension, that is all you have achieved, with no benefit at the master socket.

If instead you are now connecting that extension to some other point for some purpose, I don't think you have at all compromised the setup. But without physically seeing the installation that's impossible to know.

Out of interest, did that extension have a filtered extension socket, or just a DSL one?

He didn't/doesn't need a socket move. He didn't need to alter anything . Just plug into the master DSL socket, with a higher quality than normal DSL cable if he wished.

Which is what his opening post was asking! He simply chose to ignore the replies and make home-made connections with a cable he has apparently made up himself. As opposed to a factory made one.

or what?

When the fibre was first installed, I had a CAT5E cable running from the front of the house to the dining room terminated on a CAT5E socket. At the time that cable wasn't being used.

When BT turned up they asked where I wanted the modem, I advised it prefer it in the dining room .

The engineer used my cable.. he connected the blue pair to the IDC and plugged the modem in to the CAT5E socket.

I've now moved the modem to a few feet from the master socket. Ideally I'd prefer not to used the external socket for the connection as that will leave a trailing cable.

So I've come off the IDC and terminated that on a plug, using a plug that supports solid wire.

It's easy enough to change the plug to a socket and patch into that, but my initial query was whether there was any difference in the two connectors available.

Which I've been advised there isn't.

I do appreciate the advice given.
Thanks

What some people are forgetting is the telephone connection which you are extending is analogue (voice) not digital (ethernet).

You should be using stranded patch cable not solid wire.

If you check the power supply cable to the modem you will see that it is stranded not solid for similar reasons.

That makes no sense - electrically or otherwise, wiring is agnostic as far as waveform is concerned (within limits!) and as has been pointed out ad nauseam, the extension is to a *DSL modem or modem/router. No mention of a handset.

The modem is acting as a handset

Mr Pete, if you were to terminate the extension cable into a patch socket, it would indeed look 'nice' and satisfy the installation pedants, however, you would also be introducing another three interconnections which have the potential for corrosion, oxidisation or plain old aging, along with the existing connections you already have. So if you can live with the apparently jarring aesthetics (to some) the current number of interconnects and therefore potential points of failure are lower than they would be if you were to change the status quo. Whatever you decide, it's not going to 'break the internet', is it?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The modem is acting as a handset

Are you still on dial-up? I don't recall seeing anything relating to an acoustic coupler.... and on what basis, barring flexibility, is a stranded core better than a solid conductor for power or data in the usage case originally posted?

The difference is clearly illustrated in this diagram https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b...

Serial interface? Really?
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
goodnight.

Really. You didn't actually think the data arrive all at the same time, did you?

Due to pedantry and original question was answered a long time ago.

Pedantry is something that will often discourage new posters from posting, as they will worry about being 'shamed' by those who are either having a bit of fun or genuinely believe everything has to be just so.