New Install - Refused Master socket location choice?

Hi all,

I have recently transferred from Virgin to Plusnet for telephone and broadband. We had no BT master socket in the house so we needed one put in. However, the openreach engineer that turned up refused to put the master socket in our desired location saying that they would only terminate it where the dropwire immediately comes into the house.

Am I right in thinking that this is not acceptable and that the installer should have put my master socket where I wanted it?

I immediately reported this bizarre scenario to Plusnet, my ISP, and was told that this is not the case and that a master socket relocation fee of £160 is payable if I do want it moved??? Right now I have my modem slap-bang in the middle of my room and wires and such trailing across the room, which are trip hazards. Oh, I did pay for a "new line install fee" of £50 to Plusnet - chargeable to properties which have no existing line (if this is at all relevant).

Thanks!!!

In reply to a post by fishpan:

Hi all,

I have recently transferred from Virgin to Plusnet for telephone and broadband. We had no BT master socket in the house so we needed one put in. However, the openreach engineer that turned up refused to put the master socket in our desired location saying that they would only terminate it where the dropwire immediately comes into the house.

Unless there is something you are telling us, for example such as there was an older style master socket already in place from an existing drop wire, just not working, then I believe the engineer was talking rot.

Was it definitely an Openreach engineer? Many subcontractor vans are marked _{^{working on behalf of}} Openreach.

What do you mean by "in the middle of my room"? In the middle of a wall, or on a window-ledge?

No master socket of any kind present on the property when he visited. Drop wire was unterminated.

Definitely OR engineer from what I saw on his van - no subcontractor markings like "on behalf of" etc.

Modem is situated on the floor in the middle of the room as the power socket is on other side of room and modem (which is near Master socket) is currently connected via extension lead coming from this other side of room.

I knew by the engineer's attitude to the job that he wouldn't do anything except bare minimum but now I have added stress from Plusnet pushing to charge me for a socket relocation when it wasn't put in my required location in the first place!

Probably should have refused the installation when he refused to put it in properly. They'll just keep playing the game where you didn't ask for it to be installed where you wanted it and are after a free relocation.

You could potentially contact Openreach also, they seem to have a complaints line for bad engineers.

Thanks for that. I still have a bit of leverage in that it has only been 6 days since Plusnet have been providing my service and still within the 14 day cooling off period.

I just want to verify that I am correct in thinking that I am entitled to have the master socket wherever I wish, after paying Plusnet for a new line install? I assume its the same with any ISP that you pay for a new line to be put in.

-edit: I considered refusing the install but then I would be left without any broadband or phone until Plusnet got their act together and communicated with Openreach to sort my issue out. Tough call to make.

Edited by fishpan (Mon 13-Mar-17 12:51:30)

Before telling minus net where to stick their rip off relocation fees and indeed their contract, I would escalate it within -net Tell them that you are not prepared to pay this relocation fee, and that, due to its current location you cannot safely use the service you are paying for, If that fails involve their arbitrators, watch them have a change of heart then
They should get on to Openreach and ask them to visit your home and fix this problem without charge, But as they are owned by BT i don't see that happening any time soon

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 13-Mar-17 12:59:34)

6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I expect.

The provision of service order from Plusnet will have included (as ordered by Plusnet) 'banding' which covers in advance or work to provide where the NTE goes ..

it is VERY common to find provision orders raised with no banding on them at all, this is at the CP's requests I reiterate, as most properties have an NTE and internal wiring already and the installer just makes this live.

Clearly in cases like yours this option doesn't suit. The engineer who fitted your line was being a bit of a jobsworth , but then one might argue that he could end costing Openreach money.

Why not contact Plusnet and ask them how much TRC banding was on your install task before you wade down the 'reporting the engineer' route ?

But there was a drop-wire there. I think he was just being unreasonable. He should have at the worst put a small junction box there and run a wire round the room. Was there a box of some sort where the line entered? I can't imagine a bare wire sticking out of the wall.

Unless!

Was he also installing the FTTC or was that a second engineer? If so he could have been described as "working to rule" or if being generous about him, "misunderstanding the rule".

If there had been a master socket at the entry point an FTTC installer as opposed to a pure line installer should not move it, because of the degrading effect on the FTTC. He can fit it there and install a Home Wiring Solution", (often called a Data Extension Kit on these forums because that's what Openreach originally called them).

That would have given you a modem socket using higher grade cable than phone wire, at the place you wanted. But it needed to be ordered by Plusnet and they don't do that by default, it has to be requested by the customer telling them they don't want the modem where the master socket is. It's free, but the engineer can only (legitimately) fit it if it has been ordered. Unfortunately it isn't free as a retro-fit.

Unless you can get Plusnet to raise a complaint to BT Wholesale >> Openreach to sort it for free, your cheapest solution sounds like a spur electricity supply running round the skirting board off the socket you are using to a socket near the master socket.

The proper solution is to install what the engineer could have done, in effect a Home Wiring Solution. If you get nowhere with Plusnet for free, come back to here and ask for more detail on what you need to do. Basically you or an electrician installs an extension where you want it, with a CAT5 solid core cable connecting it to a special connector inside the master. Which you are allowed to do.

For now, a photo uploaded somewhere showing us your master socket would be useful. If it is the latest type the instructions may be just a fraction different so we need to see which type it is.

Is the problem more the lack of a power socket near the master then the modem would be fine there, or is it that you actually want the modem where the power socket is? The preferred location for the modem has to be the first decision, bearing in mind the nearer that is to the entry point the better the speed. The importance of that depends on what speed it is connecting at now.

Could you tell us please? The slower it is now the more important it is to have the modem at the entry point. At a full 79999kbps it matters far less as you may have spare capacity capped by Openreach. Also at high speeds you will not be bothered even if you do lose a bit.
_{Edit: Typo correction, the last question mark was missing so it read like garbage.}

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 13-Mar-17 13:23:44)

The official line is that a CP would order a 'new line install' and that the NTE will be placed in the location requested by the customer 'within reason'.

There are a number of factors that would mean the engineer could not install it where requested, however it doesn't sound those reasons are present in this case. Even a Build Level set to 0 (which most residential CP's do by default) would still mean the engineer spending 2 hours on the job. The work required to move the NTE from your current location sounds fairly simple (assumption based upon information).

Note the 14 days cancellation period is from the day you signed up, not the date you went live.

Hi there,

We should be able to report this to Openreach as a complaint on your behalf as my understanding is that you can choose the point for the install (as long as it doesn't require ladders, other equipment etc).

In reply to a post by fishpan:

I still have a bit of leverage in that it has only been 6 days since Plusnet have been providing my service and still within the 14 day cooling off period.

I'm afraid not, the 14 days is from point of order not activation. It's there if you change your mind about the order, not to test the service.

If you can PM me your username I can take a look at what we can do.

Here is my master socket: Master socket

Here are my line stats from my HG612 modem: Modem stats

On a side note: is my max attainable sync appropriate for the attenuation? I am aware I have been currently put on interleaving. I guess G.INP will sort this out in due course.

Sent a PM. Thanks.

The 14 days starting from date of signup and not from being connected sounds hugely idiotic to me.

Kind of like buying a new car and receiving it from the dealer once the warranty has expired.

It's been close to a month now that I signed up and only 6 days I have had the telephone and broadband active...

For an attenuation of 15dB,on a non-compromised line I would expect to see a max attainable typically between 65 and 75 Mbps depending on the overall noise levels. So your 71 is about right, the sync maybe a little low but don't go messing around with it.

I know, especially considering that most migrations must adhere to 10 working day timeline (ergo 14 days). Its the distant selling regulation that sets the date.

I would still push back on Plusnet and raise it as an engineer complaint. Potentially argue that the location the engineer left the socket is in conflict with their T&C's i.e. not a suitable location

7.3 For a new install we may give you some advice on preparing your Premises. As a minimum, you will need to provide a suitable location for any equipment required to access the Service.

This could be because of many things, did you pay for a full new line installation or for a activation of a stopped line "at the premises", yes the line could of been cut before the NTE and ripped out so to me this sounds like a activation of existing line, if so and there is no time related banding (TRC) on the job then the engineer was right to locate the NTE within 60 minutes of the cable touching the house from the pole or from the underground feed.

It looks as if you got a MK4 filter on so you either had a managed install or the engineers given you a freebie of a VDSL SSFP (PCP only fibre provides you should just have an NTE5 and a filter provided by the CP in the box with the router).

I'd say engineer is probably not at fault but the CP for ordering an activation of stopped line, get them to raise a modify EL (existing line), which unfortunately would be at their/your cost.

I can't even work out what you meant to post with "the engineer was right to locate the NTE within 60 minutes of ...". Unless you mean the job to put a cable round the room had to take less than an hour.

It has to be the right cable type of course, which technically would need to have been ordered. As I posted earlier.

Given that there was no NTE5 present it would be impossible simply to reactivate the line. From which it follows that the pictured NTE5c and Mk4 interstitial plate would be fitted.

Quite apart from the fact that four hours before your post a Plusnet rep posted, with the OP replying to that about 40 minutes later, and it all looks good for a satisfactory resolution for the OP. Chris Parr is a super guy.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 13-Mar-17 23:52:49)

Glad to see you guys responding!

I won't say anything negative here, it seems a good resolution is on the way

As a follow up, I've raised this to Openreach and we/the OP should hear back within 5 working days (IIRC).

Hi again,

I believe Openreach have been in touch now, is everything sorted?

All sorted, the OR engineer came around yesterday and re-sited the master socket to exactly where I had wanted it during the intial line install.

Plusnet could definitely do with more people like Chris Parr

Thanks for the assist!

Photo again for new master socket and also what the new modem re-sync are like? The same or even better or even worse?

Glad it all sorted out. Chris Parr is a magic cure for any openreach to act it.

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

Hi again,

I believe Openreach have been in touch now, is everything sorted?

Big thumb up. Well done Chris Parr.

Fantastic, thanks for posting back.

New relocation photos attached: http://imgur.com/a/45ckI

A new BT80 junction box was placed where the master socket was put during initial install. Then this was wired up to master socket in the new location on other side of room via skirting boards.

Sync speeds using my HG612 have gone up from 69mbps to 72mbps. Though just a small issue remains at the moment with my BT IP profile being stuck at 66mbps for some reason despite dropping PPP several times to force an update. Seen on Plusnet forums that people on G.INP are starting to see profiles drop to 91% of sync rate instead of 96.8% as seems standard with most peoples' connections. I am happy though as this means no wires running across the floor of the room just to connect the modem and phone to power point!

Just wanted to say thanks again to Chris Parr as he has helped me overcome the dead-end I experience with normal Plusnet CS.