Second Line is faster then old line...

Hi guys,

I'm trying to understand this - and see if I can get faster broadband.

In my house, I get 16mb fibre broadband with TalkTalk.

I had a second line put in my office/garage (new phone number, new line) for business use - with TalkTalk business. the new line comes from the same telegraph pole at entrance to my garden. The new line gets 50mb fibre broadband.

I've tried all the ISPs but all of them say the maximum my line will support is 16mb to 25mb. But I don't understand this - when my new line is getting 50mb. Same garden/same house, but the online prediction tools do say the new line supports up to 50mb.

Both services cost the same price - and now I feel I am either paying too much for the 16mb service, or I could get fasters speeds and aren't able to get them for some reason.

Could someone explain why I cant get the faster speed in my house?

Thanks

It may come from te same pole and cabinet however it may be routed from pole to cabinet in a totally different way. The gauge of wire may be different, there may be a lot of noise on the original line ...

Can you get the basic stats for both lines: Up and Down

Attenuation
SNR Margin
Sync Rate
Max Achievable.

And also check the BT DSL checker with the two numbers (if they work) to get the cabinet information.

****************************************************************

As you are getting such good speeds on your work line, do you need the residential one too? Why not link the office back to the house and save yourself a significant amount each month.

Edited by MHC (Mon 19-Jun-17 19:15:10)

The 16 Mbps line should be priced as an up to 38 Mbps
The 50 Mbps line should be priced as an up to 76 Mbps service

For TalkTalk residential there is usually a price difference, but some business services have no price differential, at consumer level difference is usually £5 to £15 per month.

The two lines might even be connected to different cabinets.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The two lines might even be connected to different cabinets.

What would the BT address checker do in a case like that? It cannot give two cabinets for the same address - or at least I have not seen that.

Address might show up twice with slight difference, or just one address entry and two results for the phone lines

Places I know with more than one line - often to an outbuilding, still only show up as a single entity on the address checker though.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Can you get the basic stats for both lines: Up and Down

My routers (both the same model from talktalk and talktalk business -

House:

Upstream line rate - 824
Downstream line rate - 15192
Maximum upstream - 906
Maximum downstream - 17168
Upstream noise - 6.2
Downstream noise - 7.1
Upstream interleave depth - 1
Downstream interleave depth - 1
Upstream attenuation - 5.5
Downstream attenuation - 25

Garage:

Upstream line rate - 5997
Downstream line rate - 52402
Maximum upstream - 5697
Maximum downstream - 72312
Upstream noise - 6
Downstream noise - 6.9
Upstream interleave depth - 77
Downstream interleave depth - 3029
Upstream attenuation - 2.1
Downstream attenuation - 17.3


So from what it sounds - there are lots of variables between my garage and my house and the exchanges.

Could I request the line be moved to the other exchange or do I just have to accept the speed difference between the 10m distance

Thanks again for all the replies

That rather looks like the first one is ADSL2+ and the second is definitely FTTC.

Is there a stats line showing "Mode", something like G.992.5 or G.993.2?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 19-Jun-17 21:05:13)

The garage is possibly under performing as the attainable is 72Mbps and that is roughly in line with 17dB attenuation although the the 53 down and 6 up suggest that noise is playing a part in reducing speeds. At 17dB I would expect the attainable UP to be in excess of 20Mbps.

When comparing with the house line there is an extra 7.7dB of attenuation - depending on which set you take that could mean anywhere of 25 to 15 Mbps of speed difference. That would push you down to say 25 or 30 Mbps (roughly) but at 17 you are way below that. Again with 6dB margin noise is potentially a problem. that could originate from your house, a neighbour or anything in the road.

Can you test both at the incoming test sockets with nothing else connected?



As for getting changed from one cabinet to another - unlikely even if it is the case. Have you checked the BT DSL checker to confirm cabinet numbers?

If the cabinets are the same, the attenuation difference suggest a different pole to cabinet route and 17dB is around about 500m.


Have you considered my suggestion of terminating the residential and linking the office to house? the cost of a managed switch to get separate VLANs and the cabling would be covered by savings over a few months.

If he is interleaved that would account for the 52 current and max of 72. Doubt he will see 72 until G.INP is activated which could be a few weeks.

You may have a point although he does say in his first post that the house line is fibre and that ISPs have suggested it can only support 16 to 25 which is above the ADSL2+ maximum.


There are also oddities on upstream attenuation 5.5 and 2.1 dB. For the garage line with 17dB down - 2.1 seems a litttle low. On my line I see a nominal 16dB which if I drill down givesD1 at 11.2 and U0 at 4.2.


Edited to correct 16 to 15 which should have read 16 to 25

Edited by MHC (Mon 19-Jun-17 21:54:10)

Potentially - and it could well be noise driving that. And if it is noise, it could be affecting the original house line even more.

.

In reply to a post by MHC:

You may have a point although he does say in his first post that the house line is fibre and that ISPs have suggested it can only support 16 to 15 which is above the ADSL2+ maximum.

The ADSL2+ maximum is 24 Mbps

That should have said 16 to 25 - now corrected. And 25 is above the ADSL2+ maximum.

Sorry, I don't see what you're getting at. To me, it looks like ADSL2+

In my house, I get 16mb fibre broadband with TalkTalk.


I've tried all the ISPs but all of them say the maximum my line will support is 16mb to 25mb.

So, the ISPs say 25Mb which would not be ADSL2+, And the OP believes he has FTTC. Then look at the attenuation - I would expect Up to be around half of Down = so 25 Down would be 12 up with a spread from 10 to 15 maybe. 5.5 is well below.

We need the two Modes.

Single on address, but are the telephone number lookups specific to each line or always a total match?

Two modes needed, and verify that a telephone works (i.e. ensuring garage line is not scrapping by with one leg disconnected, and feedback to checkers has taken this into account)

Good point re the phone line working on the slow one.

From what I have seen, two numbers to one location will, using he Number Checker bring up two sets of data one for each number - I did just try it on one pair I know of where the max attainable is over 100Mbps and both were identical. However others do differ.

Reason I asked the initial question about "What will happen if an address is supplied by two cabinets" or even two significantly different lines, is that I did not know definitively.

After thinking about those locations I know, I have one pair where they are from different cabinets, 5 and 28 - which happen to be adjacent. One returns a top line of 76 to 55.8 and the second, 63 to 48. However, only the latter has ever had broadband on it so whilst those are accurate the former set may not be.

I tried the address checker - only one address. The response was the first set of figures and the same cabinet number. But one set does not really give enough to go on.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4371261,-0.9107573...

Sutcliffe Ave in Earley RG6 xxx Joint user poles with overhead DP's pan about and note the two DP blocks

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4369829,-0.9105259...

These two blocks are served from different cabs, one MUCH closer than the other, the DP numbers are the same, just that the secondary is postfixed by an 'A' I wonder what the checker thinks of these addresses ?

No one seems to have thought of the obvious (well to me) answer, the underperforming line is in the OP's house, what's the betting there's extension wiring attached, so bridge taps, routers connected on extensions, bell wires, the whole shebang.

Can the OP describe the set up and what's connected where on the house line please ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

No one seems to have thought of the obvious (well to me) answer, the underperforming line is in the OP's house, what's the betting there's extension wiring attached, so bridge taps, routers connected on extensions, bell wires, the whole shebang.

Can the OP describe the set up and what's connected where on the house line please ?

I did ask:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Can you test both at the incoming test sockets with nothing else connected?

In reply to a post by MHC:

I did ask:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Can you test both at the incoming test sockets with nothing else connected?

That isn't going to pick up a bridge tap without testing that all sockets are dead with the master faceplate off.

NOTHING connected means nothing connected.

Yep, sorry, missed that bit earlier.....

I guess the issue is that a capped profile would mean it was harder to see improvement when testing as we suggest unless the OP has access to more in depth stats.

In reply to a post by MHC:

NOTHING connected means nothing connected.

It is fair enough to assume the new line to the garage has no bridge taps.

It is not safe to assume the house one does not. A bridge tap does not need anything connected. The mere presence of the wiring is sufficient. Hence my statement that all the (house) sockets need to be tested to be dead when the faceplate is off.

No need to shout either.

A bridge tap does not need anything connected. The mere presence of the wiring is sufficient.

+1.