dropping of TalkTalk sync speed and using CAT5e for VDSL

I have a normal master socket which has a filter plugged in the front feeding a cordless phone.

inside the faceplate I have connected 2 runs of cat5e from terminals 5 - 2.

one goes to a filtered connection to my alarm.

the other goes upstairs to the router.

now I was getting some fluctuation on TalkTalk FTTC 80/20 service. it would always be around 71-76000 kbps sync, and the TPlink vr900 reckoned it could manage 85000 down 22000 up.

all was well for some months until we went on holiday. when I came back I happened to check, as I do every so often, the sync speed. it had dropped to 66999 down 19999 up. and no amount of rebooting would budge it. thought the router still says it can run 85000.

so I thought id check the wiring and this is where things get weird.

I removed an old extension cable, twisted pair, from the alarm circuit and replaced it with the cat5e mentioned above. as I found removing this from the master socket 2-5 made the router think it could do 33000 up and 89000 down.

so after wiring it in the new cat5e I thought yay. then checked the router and [censored]. it was actually worse. the up had improved the router thought it could do 27000. but the down had dropped to 76000 and the snr had dropped for down.

the sync is still stuck at 19999 up and 66999 down.

is the cat5e causing problems as I have 2 extensions going to 2 separate sockets, one which is the router the other the alarm?

would fitting a filtered faceplate and connecting one cat5e to the unfiltered and the other to the filtered fix things?

if so whats the best faceplate?

has my upstream dslam got stuck on 66999 or is TalkTalk doing some sneaky bandwidth limiting?

has my upstream dslam got stuck on 66999 or is TalkTalk doing some sneaky bandwidth limiting?

It's not Talktalk. It's the OpenReach DLM which has banded (capped) your line.
This is usually due to too many resyncs in a short period of time.
Only a great deal of patience, or a DLM reset from a visiting OpenReach engineer can remove the banding. Unfortunately sometimes banding gets stuck, and the DLM doesn't remove it as it should.
Unless you can convince Talktalk to send out an OpenReach engineer then you'll just need to wait and hope it removes itself. Talktalk definitely won't do this unless it takes your line below the minimum guaranteed line speed. Even then it can be a struggle to get Talktalk to do anything.

No amount of resyncing the line will change anything. It may even make DLM think the line is unstable and lower the banding.

thanks for the reply. how long can it take for the dlm to reset?

what about my wiring problems, I cant figure why an old [censored] phone cable is better than the cat5e. though one thought ive had is maybe the old cable was filtering some local noise near it that the cat5e is maybe allowing through.

also is it ok to use adsl filters? I have xf-1e type filters, were supposed to be the best in there day.

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Sep-17 23:34:53)

Alarm should be behind a filter, is this the case?

In reply to a post by cypher007:

I have a normal master socket which has a filter plugged in the front feeding a cordless phone.

inside the faceplate I have connected 2 runs of cat5e from terminals 5 - 2.

one goes to a filtered connection to my alarm.

the other goes upstairs to the router.

Since you have a cordless phone do you need a phone connection sharing the same extension socket that the router is connected to?

If a phone is not required from that extension then a filtered faceplate fitted on your master socket would probably be best: use the CAT5e cable from the unfiltered A&B terminals on the filtered faceplate to a rj11 socket for your router and use the existing alarm extension (no need for CAT5e here) terminated on the filtered faceplate's terminals 2 and 5 for the alarm.

Suitable filtered faceplates would be a Mk3 for a NTE5A master or a Mk4 for a NTE5C master socket.

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 02-Sep-17 02:29:49)

It is more likely to be presence of the extension wiring causing a bridge tap that is making DLM respond ... this needs resolving before worrying about the DLM cap coming off.

Speak to TalkTalk.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Alarm should be behind a filter, is this the case?

Most modern Alarms have the xDSL filter built in which is why some are wired directly to the line before the xDSL Faceplate on the NTEx Master Socket.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 02-Sep-17 11:34:37)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It is more likely to be presence of the extension wiring causing a bridge tap that is making DLM respond ... this needs resolving before worrying about the DLM cap coming off.

Speak to TalkTalk.

Absolutely It�ll be the extension wiring. An SSFP needs to be fitted. If you don�t want to plug the router into the master socket then you can run cat5 from the back of the SSFP (not the actual NTE5 master socket) to wherever you want it.

Basically your extensions need isolating from your broadband. You�re never going to get the best speed if you�ve got extension cabling of any kind, without an SSFP.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Alarm should be behind a filter, is this the case?

Most modern Alarms have the xDSL filter built in which is why some are wired directly to the line before the xDSL Faceplate on the NTEx Master Socket.

Paul

Even if they�re filtered this is still a bridge tap and would be detected by Openreach�s Brandeburg FTTC fault detection system if a FTTC line test were to be run on that line. Bridge taps will cause slower speed.

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Sep-17 16:43:10)

In reply to a post by cypher007:

thanks for the reply. how long can it take for the dlm to reset?

The banding on my line took 9 months (almost to the day) of no reboots and solid connecting to be lifted. My line is very stable and now is running at 3db.

I honestly thought it would never get lifted.

not sure the alarm has a built in filter, its a Yale self fit. ive put one on it anyway. ive tested with nothing on the alarm end and it still affects the speed, just the cable with nothing plugged in not even a filter.

but anyway ive ordered a BT MK3 plate from ebay, so will rewire and report back.

A cable with nothing attached to the end acts as an aerial and picks up noise that affects the VDSL2 signals

Consider this example, you have a SW or FM radio how do they pick up the signal - often a short piece of wire dangling out of them, this extension is doing the same.

In reply to a post by cypher007:

...ive ordered a BT MK3 plate from ebay, so will rewire and report back.

Regarding the router extension: be sure to connect one pair of wires in the CAT5e cable to the unfiltered A&B terminals on the Mk3 plate. If you are not fitting a RJ11 socket for the router (CAT5e + rj11 socket = "data extension") then the standard phone extension socket will be OK used in conjunction with a good quality dangle filter splitter.

Good luck.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A cable with nothing attached to the end acts as an aerial and picks up noise that affects the VDSL2 signals

Consider this example, you have a SW or FM radio how do they pick up the signal - often a short piece of wire dangling out of them, this extension is doing the same.

Yep, still a bridge tap and still going to affect speed. NTE5 and SSFP sneed to be where the incoming feed from outside and the router needs to be connected to the SSFP, or on a data extension connected in the correct fashion to the SSFP. Anything else will not be optimum.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A cable with nothing attached to the end acts as an aerial and picks up noise that affects the VDSL2 signals

Consider this example, you have a SW or FM radio how do they pick up the signal - often a short piece of wire dangling out of them, this extension is doing the same.

Not only that, but the unused end of the cable acts like a mirror. With nowhere to go, the signal reflects back down the cable, and merges with the original back at the joint. Some of the reflection heads towards the DSLAM, but some heads to the modem where it works as noise.

Stopping reflections is as important as stopping RF.

And that is where things can get funky as the length of cable makes a difference...

Using the Hlog diagnostic graph of such a line, you can calculate exactly how long the extra cable is.