FTTP ordered, what happens when the engineer arrives..

Hi all, after waiting years for fibre, it finally became live a few days ago, so ordered "Infinity 3" from BT, as my existing provider, SKY, does not support FTTP (scumbags . Actually this is a nice little earner for BT, as the mainstream ISP's don't support FTTP, and OR are deploying FTTP more than ever. So can someone explain the bating order when the engineer arrives. All the BT cables are underground with a chamber access point 3-4 meters from the our property. Can I have the ONT fitted more or less where I like ?. Main bt socket in the hall, but phone in living room, so bt ran an extension cable from main socket into the living room. I have an extension cable also from the back of the main socket up the outside wall into the spare bedroom where it terminates to another socket (that bt fitted quite a few years ago) that feeds the ADSL sky router/modem. This spare bedroom is where I use my computer from and is where I would want the ONT to be fitted. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for looking.

If its the new style connectorised version, then its very like having a phone line installed, i.e. black fibre is connected to the DP in the street and pushed through ducting and into house, inside house the black is stripped off to leave a white core (i.e. looks better indoors) and then a connector added to plug into the fibre ONT.

The older way, is fibre is blown down tube to a box on the outside of the house, and then some bendy fibre is connected to that and ran inside the house.

The usual 10 to 20m rules apply, but no sneaking it between gaps in doors as you might break the fibre.

NOTE: The Fibre ONT has Ethernet output to your broadband router, so might want to consider a neat place for the fibre modem (ONT) with some power, and then you are free to run Ethernet to where ever you like in the home i.e. best location for the wireless signal.

Actually this is a nice little earner for BT, as the mainstream ISP's don't support FTTP, and OR are deploying FTTP more than ever.

Other operators can offer service over the Openreach FTTP network, it is that they choose not to.

Mr.S has pretty much completely covered all the installation stuff. But I fit this stuff, so any other questions, just ask.

In reply to a post by colesy3:

Can I have the ONT fitted more or less where I like ?.

Yes, provided no more than 30m of internal fibre cabling is required.

Will be interesting to know if you get the newer ONT (with integrated BBU) or the existing version which has BBU separately. Though if you won't be getting BT's voice over fibre service (FVA) and have no plans to do so in future, you can ask the Engineer to skip the BBU for a more tidier install. He'll probably give you funny looks like the Engineer installing my ONT did, in the end he agreed to leave out the BBU

Edit: Just to add, a battery backup unit (BBU) ONLY powers the phone port on the ONT in a power cut, power to the LAN ports is disabled.

Edited by deleted (Tue 19-Sep-17 18:41:12)

Will be interesting to know if you get the newer ONT (with integrated BBU

still not seen one yet.

Thanks for the replies, most helpful. So as I require the ONT in the spare bedroom, where the BT hub will be also, will I have to connect the phone to the ONT, or will they run a new extension cable to the living room for the phone, or can I use the existing copper cable for the phone, and just use the fibre for connecting to the ONT.

Again many thanks for your help and insight.

If taking out a FVA service then a cable connects the ONT to the phone (or master phone) socket.

Some pics of my installation, though this was a FTTP 'On Demand' Installation hence I've got both copper & fibre coming through the same entry point:

https://s18.postimg.org/n3s26bdop/IMG_001.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/76ta9llah/IMG_002.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/nvuq5ihvt/IMG_003.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/h6o6phwjt/IMG_004.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/rurxoc6ix/IMG_005.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/69mv0q9s9/IMG_006.jpg

I also ordered FTTP a few days ago... hopefully OP doesn't mind my hijacking. On the phone the CSA said I could expect "stage 1" (pole to wall) to be done in a few days and "stage 2" (internal) in two weeks.

Today an engineer turned up, but only to "survey" the pole. He said everything seemed okay, but I forgot to ask him about stage 1.

Now google tells me that the stage1/stage2 steps are the old system, and the new one (connectorised) is installed from pole to internal in one visit. I don't know how to tell which kind the pole is, though.

Am I correct that connectorised FTTP is installed in one visit? Should I be concerned if no-one shows up to do stage 1 prior to my "stage 2" appointment?

If you can see the poletop 'manifold' that will tell you if you are getting connectorised or blow fibre ...

Both will have a stage one visit, one to prove to a port on the 'CBT' (connectorised block) the other 'bottle' shaped type needs Blown fibre tubing to CSP on the wall.

Thanks Zarjaz, so three visits (survey, stage1, stage2) for an FTTP install is normal I assume.

In reply to a post by j314:

Thanks Zarjaz, so three visits (survey, stage1, stage2) for an FTTP install is normal I assume.

It kinda depends, there are a fair few different combinations, so no real hard and fast rules.

Whereabouts in the country are you ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It kinda depends, there are a fair few different combinations, so no real hard and fast rules.

Whereabouts in the country are you ?

Okay, appreciated... I should probably stop worrying about it and just wait to see what happens

I'm in southern Scotland, somewhat rural.

Here is a rather unhelpful picture of a blown fibre type manifold, but with it's matching lid removed ........ I have some pics of the connectorised blocks close up, but they are not on that page yet.



Southern Scotland .... a tad too far for me to be picking up your job then. n

Five years old but http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f... a manifold up a pole.

A quick update... the stage2 was today, but it didn't go particularly well.

First, the engineer accidentally put a staple straight through the fibre in two separate places. He went ahead with the splice and light test anyway, and said the reading was OK (I think it was 11dB, unsure). Should I be worried about this impacting the speed/future failures or will it be fine as long it's within the overall budget? Do I need to insist they re-run it?

I'm surprised there was a signal at all to be honest, I would have thought a staple through the glass would be game over for fibre.

Second, upon finding a blinking PON light, he had to call up and was told I was on the wrong port (I think that was the term used). Apparently another engineer needs to come out and do work at the splitter or manifold to fix that. Does this happen often and could anyone say how long they will likely take?

The glass strand is thinner than a staple, actual fibre is more like thickness of a hair, so may have gone through the outer layers of protection and missed the glass strand. So as long as the glass was not nicked should be fine.

The eng really shouldn�t have left the cable he stapled ... I suspect it hasn�t hit the fibre itself, that would straight break it.

Sadly a flashing PON light due to the wrong SASA tray in the splitter is a fairly frequent issue at the moment .. they�ve some newly trained staff doing these stage 1 jobs ... it�s like they don�t fully understand the whole product end to end.

The installer/stage 2 guy should have arranged for an ID eng to come resolve the SASA issue. Unlikely to happen this weekend, Monday hopefully.

Agree there, but I prefer to use cleats, slower but less chance of percussive damage.

Thanks Zarjaz (and MrSaffron). Hopefully the fibre itself was missed and won't suddenly break at some later point. I'll leave another update when that SASA issue is fixed.

One other thing (sorry for the incessant questions): Has this connector been terminated correctly?

https://i.imgur.com/UEkLmlk.png

The gap of a few mm between the topmost green part and the white part "feels" wrong to me, and googling "SC/APC" suggests that it should be flush.

In reply to a post by j314:

One other thing (sorry for the incessant questions): Has this connector been terminated correctly?

https://i.imgur.com/UEkLmlk.png

That looks a bit weird, this is how mine is connected:

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/DsX2

I'm sure Zarjaz will know better.

If yours Baby_frogmella the original style blown fibre with splice point on outside wall and Ez Bend fibre inside? The other posters white looks thinner, which matches with what I believe would be the case for a connectorised fibre solution.

As for the connector - no opinion as only played around with the stuff in the street

Yep I have the traditional setup with fibre blown to an external CSP which is then spliced onto an 'EZ bend' optical cable going to the ONT. If j314 has the newer 'connectorised' setup then that probably explains the why he has a different connector at the ONT.

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Sep-17 21:31:20)

You got it, that IS a connectorised termination ....

They do seem somewhat flimsy. But that the installer got the light loss reading would seem to indicate he�s terminated it properly ....

Page 8 of this https://www.ournetwork.openreach.co.uk/resources/sit... has a similar looking picture

To clarify... there's an external CSP on an outer wall, to which a cable was led from a pole last week. Today the engineer drilled through the wall and fed a separate cable between the CSP and an ONT in a utility room. The cable was a combo outdoor/indoor type; the small length that ran through the wall was kept as outdoor and the rest (10-15m I'd say) was stripped back to reveal white indoor fibre.

There was no connector pre-installed on the fibre; I saw him adding one himself. I'm not sure if that's what connectorised means or not

The end plugging into the ONT (fibre modem) has no connector on, the one on the outside of the property usually has a connector, but am sure I could find a version of same cable that was bare at each end.

Fingers crossed given a sunny day and spare time will get some more photos done for main site guides

What a peculiar way to run it ??

I wonder if he didn�t have any EZ bend type lead ins to use.

A possible explanation: He mentioned that the internal cable would be black. I said I'd expected it to be white, so he went back to his van and produced the combo cable. I felt a bit guilty about that after seeing how tedious it is to strip the padding material from that cable :] I hadn't actually been all that concerned about the colour, just surprised.

So I guess either the EZ bend runs you describe only come in black, or he was out of white ones.

Option 2 for sure ...

EZ bend lead in kits come in black, white or brown.

Just going to update this for the sake of anyone googling a similar issue in the future. This post doesn't contain any questions/info relevant to the previous posters ITT, so you may want to skip

Since the BT tracker didn't acknowledge the need for an external fix, I called up today. 08005874787 didn't directly work, for some reason- had to go via India and get transferred back. When I did get through, they were very helpful.

I was told that the external work will be done tomorrow, but unexpectedly I was also given a timeslot for another internal visit next week. Turns out someone needs to sign off on the final install. If it's a different engineer from before, I should probably take the opportunity to ask about the staples/connector issues

It will be interesting to see whether the service works from tomorrow, or only after the second internal visit.

Depends whether they activated the ONTE on the system successfully last time.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

NOTE: The Fibre ONT has Ethernet output to your broadband router, so might want to consider a neat place for the fibre modem (ONT) with some power, and then you are free to run Ethernet to where ever you like in the home i.e. best location for the wireless signal.

Or given it's single mode fibre and an extra 100m is nothing, a simplex SC-SC coupler and whatever length of simplex single mode fibre with SC connectors at both ends. An SC-SC simplex coupler is like 21p at fs.com and a 30m simplex single mode cable with SC connectors is £3.20. I would be disappearing the Openreach provided fibre inside a small box and run my own fibre to where I wanted the ONT.

I remain astounded that Openreach and it would appear KCom too (saw an installation at my uncles a couple weeks back) just bring the fibre direct into the home and bung an SC connector on the end. I would not do that in a data centre let alone in a home.

Now while fibre is a lot more robust than some people make out it is more delicate than copper and your telephone line does not run directly to a plug which you stick in the back of the phone.

copper and your telephone line does not run directly to a plug which you stick in the back of the phone.

It used to. And the main reason they changed it was to set a demarcation point between customer equipment and their equipment. With fibre the demarcation is the ONT at which point it is turned into copper.

In reply to a post by ian72:

copper and your telephone line does not run directly to a plug which you stick in the back of the phone.

It used to. And the main reason they changed it was to set a demarcation point between customer equipment and their equipment. With fibre the demarcation is the ONT at which point it is turned into copper.

I remember some of those old phone connections shown >> here << it was in one of the homes I lived in growing up.

Paul

Same techniques as other countries that have we are told deployed millions more premises like this

We had a party line with the farm house down the road and the wires were connected in a jointing box like the one in your picture. The phone was rented from the Post Office. This later changed when my parents bought their own phone and the socket was changed to a phone socket that the end user could actually plug the phone into.

In reply to a post by ian72:

copper and your telephone line does not run directly to a plug which you stick in the back of the phone.

It used to. And the main reason they changed it was to set a demarcation point between customer equipment and their equipment. With fibre the demarcation is the ONT at which point it is turned into copper.

No there was always a joint in the copper cable, and not one that involved someone getting a soldering iron out which would be the equivalent of spicing.

I can tell you now if I ever get a FTTP connection a small box will be going on the wall a coupler and a simplex patch lead will then route the fibre to where I want it, in conduit, buried in the wall as necessary. I would probably sink a 47mm double gang back box and put a blanking plate over it. I would also probably have it all in place before the engineer arrived

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

In reply to a post by ian72:

copper and your telephone line does not run directly to a plug which you stick in the back of the phone.

It used to. And the main reason they changed it was to set a demarcation point between customer equipment and their equipment. With fibre the demarcation is the ONT at which point it is turned into copper.

No there was always a joint in the copper cable, and not one that involved someone getting a soldering iron out which would be the equivalent of spicing.

I can tell you now if I ever get a FTTP connection a small box will be going on the wall a coupler and a simplex patch lead will then route the fibre to where I want it, in conduit, buried in the wall as necessary. I would probably sink a 47mm double gang back box and put a blanking plate over it. I would also probably have it all in place before the engineer arrived

I wouldn't be surprised if BTOR moans due to they own the fibre going into the home up to the ONT, just like BTOR owns the copper line up to the NTE5x master socket.

And if you have any issues after you attach anything between their fibre cable and the ONT, I wouldn't be surprised if you get charged.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

And if you have any issues after you attach anything between their fibre cable and the ONT, I wouldn't be surprised if you get charged.

Or I could just unplug my extension cable from the coupler and move the ONT to be plugged directly into it. A bit like using the test socket on an NTE5. Making the demarcation point the ONT is as dumb as not having a coupler in fibre run at fixed point so that activity in the house can require recabling from outside the house.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

And if you have any issues after you attach anything between their fibre cable and the ONT, I wouldn't be surprised if you get charged.

Or I could just unplug my extension cable from the coupler and move the ONT to be plugged directly into it. A bit like using the test socket on an NTE5. Making the demarcation point the ONT is as dumb as not having a coupler in fibre run at fixed point so that activity in the house can require recabling from outside the house.

The way I see it, BTOR own everything up to the ONT which is why you are not allowed to change anything before that point, apart from the batteries in the BBU if you have one.

Also its not the same as removing the faceplates and using the test socket, doing that you are not touching BTOR's wiring, when you use a fibre coupler on the fibre cable going into the ONT you are altering their wiring, so no its not the same thing.

What you are suggesting to do would be the same thing as re-locating the Master Socket and adding extra cable between the BT80 box and the Master Socket.


If the ONT isn't installed where you like it, you should of told them where you wanted it to be installed where the external engineer(s) arrived.

They are happy to install it where you want it, within reason that is.

I did exactly that when mine was installed.
The engineer(s) arrived to do the external work and I asked if it could be installed where I wanted it and explained why I wanted it there and they was happy to install it there.

The next day another engineer arrived to do the internal work and saw where the CSP was installed and knew where about the internal hardware needed to be installed, I re-explained where I wanted it and why, he was very happy to install it there.

Job done.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Thu 05-Oct-17 21:44:05)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Southern Scotland .... a tad too far for me to be picking up your job then. n

Do you service Wombles? If things go to plan I'll be ordering FTTP for a site here within the next 3 weeks.

�fraid not Sarah, sorry.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

What you are suggesting to do would be the same thing as re-locating the Master Socket and adding extra cable between the BT80 box and the Master Socket.

Plenty of people do that though don't they, even though it's against the rules.

People redecorate, move furniture around or even major building work, so what was an ideal location once might not be in the future. Agreed they could get Openreach out to move things but a lot of people may not like the cost, or taking time off work so do it themselves.

Indeed. It's not like your going to break the internet or crash the PSTN switch .

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

[
[i]Also its not the same as removing the faceplates and using the test socket, doing that you are not touching BTOR's wiring, when you use a fibre coupler on the fibre cable going into the ONT you are altering their wiring, so no its not the same thing.

What you are suggesting to do would be the same thing as re-locating the Master Socket and adding extra cable between the BT80 box and the Master Socket.

Except it's not. Unplugging a simplex SC connector from the ONT and whipping out a simplex SC-SC coupler and a simplex single mode SC-SC patch lead is not physically altering the Openreach cabling. Now if the cable was fusion spliced into the ONT you would have a point, but it's connectorized so basically you don't.

In addition there is zero potential to do any damage upstream. Well not entirely true I am sure if I fired a 10W laser back down the fibre it would do some damage, but we are not talking about doing anything like that.

However if the engineer would be willing to pull the fibre through a range of preinstalled conduit back to my server cupboard (which by the way mostly already exists even though any fibre installation is years away) then that would be fine. My guess is they would not, hence I would either present them with it preinstalled, or just modify it after they left.

Then again I would be looking to hack an SFP based ONT to replace the box BT provide.

I still find it crazy that the fibre is not terminated at a fix point in the wall so that should the length that is going to the ONT get damaged it can easily be replaced by the end user too without bothering Openreach. Everyone is behaving like the fibre optic cable Openreach is using is something special that Joe Blogs can't source themselves. I guess the main issue would be that most single mode fibre is yellow and not particularly attractive, though that would not be applicable to myself.

I've installed a small conduit from the exterior wall into my server room, and hopefully when VM install FTTP they will be ok using this.