FTTP Dual Provider etc..

Hi, Currently have two services running over fttp
1.BT Home FVA port for Phone and Infinity BB on port 1 of the ont,
2.after my second adsl2 line was migrated over to fttp on plusnet it uses port 2 on the ont.

BT Infinity contract up in september which i want to cancel, as i have plusnet broadband over port 2 on the ont for static ip purpose, but it will run the whole network when the bt line has been cancelled.
is it possible to keep the BT phone line only in a contract for fva port only and continue with plusnet broadband over port 2 for the internet. so makes port 1 inactive in theory.
Any one able to shed a light of if this may be possible?
Thanks in advance.

There�s a sheltered accommodation complex round this way where the rooms are served by FTTP.
A proportion of these currently provide just an FVA service as the elderly tenants don�t want the internet, so it IS possible just to take an FVA service from BT Retail.

Zarjaz

On a 4 port ONT, is the same fibre strand from the CSP to the ONT used for additional FTTP connections? If not, where do the other fibre lead in cables plug into? My Huawei HG840 ONT has only a single optical port with 3 spare fibre strands coiled in the CSP.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Zarjaz

On a 4 port ONT, is the same fibre strand from the CSP to the ONT used for additional FTTP connections? If not, where do the other fibre lead in cables plug into? My Huawei HG840 ONT has only a single optical port with 3 spare fibre strands coiled in the CSP.

That is a good question, also what happens when BT starts to sell 1Gbit packages and we have more money than sense and get 4 lots of 1Gbit connections.

I wonder if that single fibre strand would handle 4x1Gbits, hell, would the ONT even handle 4 lots of 1Gbit going into it lol.

Paul

Why not port your phone number to a VOIP provider e.g. Voipfone then you can use what equipment you like. You would avoid paying the BT line rental.

Yep, the same single strand. Just different remote configuration to make the subsequent ports live.

Quite how, technically, I�m not sure ... employed for my looks see

It�s just a single strand to the splitter for 32 connections ... I would guess the pinch point would be on the links at the head end ... but this is just a guess (see previous reply to Baby F)

As further down the road you will have more than 4 people sharing the same fibre, i.e. how GPON and XGPON works.

The XGPON on the 1 Gbps service costs more as needs new optical hardware to support the service and coexist with the standard GPON.

Many countries with 1 Gbps actually use GPON, as does TalkTalk in York and believe Vodafone will. Hence the cheaper Gigabit, i.e. Openreach is doing its usual over engineer things.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yep, the same single strand. Just different remote configuration to make the subsequent ports live.

Quite how, technically, I�m not sure ... employed for my looks see

Thanks, good to know. I'm guessing those with the newer single LAN port ONT will need additional ONT(s) if they wanted to order extra FTTP connections? Doesn't make sense why Openreach would scrap the extra LAN ports as it could get quite messy having multiple ONTs installed. Granted, those ordering additional FTTP connections will be in a tiny minority but still...

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

Why not port your phone number to a VOIP provider e.g. Voipfone then you can use what equipment you like. You would avoid paying the BT line rental.

Unlike non-Openreach based FTTP providers, I don't think BT Retail sell a 'FTTP only' service, it has to be taken with a phone line whether its on fibre (FVA) or on copper. So the OP might as well make use of the voice element of his line as he will be paying for it regardless.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jul-18 12:19:59)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

I'm guessing those with the newer single LAN port ONT will need additional ONT(s) if they wanted to order extra FTTP connections?

Or in that situation they could replace the single-LAN ONT with a multi-LAN one (which ought to be a lot easier, as it would avoid bringing another fibre into the house).

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Or in that situation they could replace the single-LAN ONT with a multi-LAN one (which ought to be a lot easier, as it would avoid bringing another fibre into the house).

Whilst that would be technically possible, you would have to rely on the Openreach Engineer carrying a spare HG8240 in his van as officially OR no longer install the 4 port versions anymore. If you managed to buy one (OR branded) yourself then you would have to ask Openreach to register it on their network (using its serial #) as you can't simply swap out the ONTs yourself willy nilly and expect them to work immediately. I see there's a glut of the 4 port HG8240 ONT's for sale on eBay at present. They're probably worth more than the sellers realise.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jul-18 12:52:02)

Or in that situation they could replace the single-LAN ONT with a multi-LAN one (which ought to be a lot easier, as it would avoid bringing another fibre into the house).

I believe they are carried as van stock as replacement for existing ones if required.

As ever, the driving force appears to be cost. If installed neatly I never saw any issue with the aesthetics of the four port variety.

I believe 'over-engineering of things' pays dividends in the long run.

Where things are done as cheaply as possible it usually comes back to haunt people at some point.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Many countries with 1 Gbps actually use GPON, as does TalkTalk in York and believe Vodafone will. Hence the cheaper Gigabit, i.e. Openreach is doing its usual over engineer things.

I'm very surprised by this comment.

In what way is not running 32 x 1Gbps over GPON over engineering?

Common sense to to use XGPON for 1 Gbps especially if the increase in usage seen in recent years continues at the same rate.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In what way is not running 32 x 1Gbps over GPON over engineering?

For a "home" 1G service, GPON with a 32:1 split is fine as long as you accept a CIR (guaranteed minimum download speed) of 75Mbps.

The current household average superfast usage is 223GB per month, which works out at an average of about 0.7Mbps.

It is bursty of course; however the chances of all your 31 neighbours all being at home at the same time, let alone them all using more than 75Mbps at the same time, are pretty slim.

Even in the event that five people are caning the link simultaneously, then they'll each get nearly 500M, which is not bad.

And since GPON and XGPON can coexist on the same fibre, individual customers can be upgraded if they really want more. Most people are unlikely to want to pay the extra on day one.

Same applies to backhaul links: you're not going to provision a separate 10G of backhaul for every 32 users.

The 1 Gbps product isn't really a "home" product.

I'd rather pay the setup cost and be on XGPON.

Further down the line if they want to sweat their assets more they can at anytime choose to run a 1 Gbps product over GPON for the home market.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

Why not port your phone number to a VOIP provider e.g. Voipfone then you can use what equipment you like. You would avoid paying the BT line rental.

Unlike non-Openreach based FTTP providers, I don't think BT Retail sell a 'FTTP only' service, it has to be taken with a phone line whether its on fibre (FVA) or on copper. So the OP might as well make use of the voice element of his line as he will be paying for it regardless.

AIUI he plans to have Plusnet FTTP, they might say that he has to have a telephone service from someone!

> The 1 Gbps product isn't really a "home" product.

People who live in York, or the right part of it, can get a 1G home service from Talktalk/Sky, based on normal GPON. Maybe other Altnets do this too.

It seems reasonable to me to leave the pipe open at 1G so that excess capacity can be used when available, rather than hard-limit it to 330M like Openreach.

I believe the OP already has Plusnet FTTP from port two of his ONT, and BT Retail FTTP and FVA from the same router.

He is going to cease the retail offering, retain the Plusnet FTTP, and was asking if he could just have the FVA on it�s own.

I suspect Plusnet do not offer an FVA service to accompany their FTTP offerings.

Yeah plusnet do not offer fva,
i want to keep fva line rental only with BT to retain my landline number, and keep plusnet operating on port 2 of the ont, with port 1 being taken out of service as bt retail broadband will be ceased..

so i can keep fva line rental only without infinity attached? so calls only no broadband over fttp?

They certainly offer it as a stand alone product.

Zarjaz

Technically they just configure the splitter and ONT to direct different wavelengths to each port . So a 4 port can handle up to 4 separate wavelengths (if they are not used for other customers).

In theory you could get all 32 wavelength done 1 fibre but that would negate the previous splitter and defeat the object of GPON.

AIUI GPON uses two frequencies one for downstream and one for upstream. For downsteam, the ONT takes the bits that it needs and passes them to the correct ethernet ports. For upstream the ONT has to send a packet of data at the correct time so that it does not collide with data from other ONTs. The exact timing depends on the distance a particular ONT is from the head end. See

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Zarjaz

Technically they just configure the splitter and ONT to direct different wavelengths to each port . So a 4 port can handle up to 4 separate wavelengths (if they are not used for other customers).

In theory you could get all 32 wavelength done 1 fibre but that would negate the previous splitter and defeat the object of GPON.

My understanding of PON was the splitter splits the data to all 32 split fibres, so if "ABCDEF" was sent into the splitter all 32 split fibres will have "ABCDEF" on them.
I think the wavelengths are different for sending and receiving and that's it.

I think it uses a form of TDM (Time-division multiplexing) when sending and receiving data.

And the ONT even though its possible to receive all data it can only decode data that is meant for it.

And if they wanted to supply two FTTP connections to a single 4 Port ONT they just configure the ONT settings (over fibre) and send the data and the ONT will decode the data that is intended for it.

But like I said this is my understanding of it, so some of it might be incorrect.

Paul

Thank you kitcat - (and damn these matinee idol good looks)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I think it uses a form of TDM (Time-division multiplexing) when sending and receiving data.

And the ONT even though its possible to receive all data it can only decode data that is meant for it.

That's all correct.

I believer the TDM in the upstream direction is pretty clever: the OLT allocates the upstream timeslots, but takes into account the different times delays over the different fibre paths to each ONT.

so does that mean you could have 4 1000/220 lines installed on one of these 4 port boxes and they would all run over the same fibre?

In reply to a post by Robin1989:

so does that mean you could have 4 1000/220 lines installed on one of these 4 port boxes and they would all run over the same fibre?

Yes, that is orderable.
You'll hit congestion for sure, but each 1000/220 will be guaranteed 330/110 at the Openreach level.