Why the desire for multi port ONT for multiple services?

In various FTTP threads, I see people wanting one multiple port ONT for multiple FTTP lines rather than having one ONT per line, but what I don't understand, is why?

As far as I can see, if you have two lines for redundancy, you lose that by having both of them run through the same ONT. I can't see it being for speed, because FTTP can go faster than the copper ports on the ONT can.

So the only advantage I can see is that it'll be neater. Hopefully someone will tell me what I'm missing!

Copper ports currently go faster than the optical port on Openreach services in many places.

There is a maximum service speed of 330Mbps down and 50Mbps up on the site I currently have Openreach WBC FTTP at. This has multiple VPN connections to remote sites. At the moment, some of these have ADSL so we're not maxing out on data transfers but when remote sites do catch up we'll want faster than 50Mbps up and 330Mbps down. That's where having a multiport ONT comes in handy.

So, yes, it's mostly for speed in my case.

There are also issues of space. This is only part way through the installation of everything on site. It's a lot more crowded than that now.

Edited by caffn8me (Thu 15-Nov-18 03:29:55)

The second FTTP line would be connected to the same FTTP Distribution Point (DP) and take the same route as the first so the redundancy advantage goes out of the window - eg both lines would get knocked out simultaneously in the event of any cable break. If you wanted proper redundancy you would take out a leased fttp line as a second line, ideally non Openreach/BTW based.

Edited by deleted (Thu 15-Nov-18 03:47:22)

To be fair, you would get some redundancy against ISP issues with two services from separate ISPs, even through the same ONT. You do then go back to the ONT itself being a single point of failure.

In reply to a post by F9B54DA3BB3C:

So the only advantage I can see is that it'll be neater.

And easier/quicker to install. If your initial service uses a single pre-connectorised fibre, then pulling a second one from the fibre DP to your house could be a messy job.

However, if you already have a spare port on the ONT, then all that happens is that the second service is activated (remotely). It should not even require an engineer visit. It also doesn't require a spare port to be available on your fibre DP.

Two ONTs give you some protection against the ONT itself dying, but otherwise there's little else that's redundant. You'd get a better level of redundancy by keeping a backup copper circuit.

Why on earth would you pull a second fibre? Surely any sane person would put a sub £10 splitter in the customers premises so you can feed two ONT's?

Here's one from fs,com for £6.50+VAT, you would need a simplex SC-SC coupler too, but they are less than 50p including VAT on fs.com.

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/11615.html

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

Surely any sane person would put a sub £10 splitter in the customers premises so you can feed two ONT's?

The chances of Openreach fitting any sort of fibre splitter are zilch as a single fibre strand is capable of supporting multiple FTTP lines, as long as a 4 port ONT is fitted at the end (which they still supply).

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

Why on earth would you pull a second fibre? Surely any sane person would put a sub £10 splitter in the customers premises so you can feed two ONT's?

This two-port splitter would be daisy-chained with OR's own 32-port splitter, adding 3-4dB of optical loss.

So whether this would work reliably depends on how much spare optical budget there is, which in turn depends on how far away you are from the OLT. It would be for OR to make such a judgement.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

Surely any sane person would put a sub £10 splitter in the customers premises so you can feed two ONT's?

The chances of Openreach fitting any sort of fibre splitter are zilch as a single fibre strand is capable of supporting multiple FTTP lines, as long as a 4 port ONT is fitted at the end (which they still supply).

I agree, I know my Exchange is "suppose" to be using 10GPON (According to BTOR) which they upgraded before the checker was updated and now says our connection now an handle 1000:220 and when enquiring about that I was told by BTOR they are now using 10GPON between our ONT and the exchange.

But TBH I didn't think the 4 Port ONT could handle 10Gbit, maybe it can, maybe it cant, I just don't know.

But if I was to say get another Ultrafast 2 connection over FTTP, I certainly wouldn't have an extra ONT installed, I would have them just use another port on our current 4 port ONT and then plug that new port to another router.

Paul

Why should the ONT have to handle 10 Gbps? The service is Gigabit at best, and before you say about the underlying optical service being 10 Gbps, remember that standard GPON is 2.5 Gbps potentially.

ONT will really only need to handle 10 Gbps when services with beyond Gigabit Ethernet are sold.

Yeah I am aware of the standard GPON is 2.5Gbits, I was only going by what BTOR told me, they were at my exchange for a week or two a little while back changing hardware, they said it was 10G-PON and when BT start selling faster speeds we are all ready for it.

And when I was asked what ONT I had, I was told I was lucky due to I would be able to get 4 x 1Gbit (once available) down one fibre cable to my current ONT.

Not sure why you would even want more than 1 1Gbit connection if or when BT start to sell one.

The actual bandwidth the entire ONT can handle over that single fibre cable I have no clue, I was never given and booklets for the ONT, I was for the BBU.
But if the ONT only supports the standard GPON then 4 lots of 1GBit Services would be an issue, so maybe that was why they moved over to a one ports ONT.

Paul

My ISP (FluidOne) are apparently selling the newer 1000/220 Mbps FTTP tier (checker shows this as available for my address). I've asked them for a quote as I could do with the higher upload, they said I may be able to upgrade my existing 330 Mbps FoD line to the 1 Gig service even though I've still got 1.5 years left on my min term. However I have my doubts, and will probably require a second FTTP line.

Edited by deleted (Thu 15-Nov-18 16:24:02)

Yeah, BTOR told me the connection I have is all ready, just need to wait for the two new faster services (500:165 and 1000:220) to be available by BT.

Yeah, 330 is fine for us here, but a faster up speed than 50 would be nice.

But "maybe" (wink) when the two new above speeds become available they will increase the other two up speeds more.

I am still wondering what the prices for the two new speeds would be. But whatever price they charge will prob be out of our current price budget, but I will see when that time come.

Paul

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

Copper ports currently go faster than the optical port on Openreach services in many places.

There is a maximum service speed of 330Mbps down and 50Mbps up on the site I currently have Openreach WBC FTTP at. This has multiple VPN connections to remote sites. At the moment, some of these have ADSL so we're not maxing out on data transfers but when remote sites do catch up we'll want faster than 50Mbps up and 330Mbps down. That's where having a multiport ONT comes in handy.

So, yes, it's mostly for speed in my case.

There are also issues of space. This is only part way through the installation of everything on site. It's a lot more crowded than that now.

I had forgotten about how asymmetric the connection speeds were (which is rather embarrassing considering how often I moan about it). Wanting to use a multi port ONT for better speed makes sense to me, for some reason I was thinking that there was a gigabit symmetrical (Openreach) FTTP option (D'oh).

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I know my Exchange is "suppose" to be using 10GPON (According to BTOR) which they upgraded before the checker was updated and now says our connection now an handle 1000:220 and when enquiring about that I was told by BTOR they are now using 10GPON between our ONT and the exchange.

But TBH I didn't think the 4 Port ONT could handle 10Gbit, maybe it can, maybe it cant, I just don't know.

The existing ONTs almost certainly won't do 10GPON.

However, 10GPON and regular GPON are designed to run side-by-side on the same fibre - they are on different wavelengths, ships that pass in the night. This means OR can enable 10GPON for the big customers, and leave regular GPON running for everyone else on the same splitter, so they don't have to replace everyone's existing ONT.

I expect the reason the 10G-based services have such a high installation charge is to recover the cost of swapping to a 10G-capable ONT, as well as 10GPON upgrades to the OLT.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I know my Exchange is "suppose" to be using 10GPON (According to BTOR) which they upgraded before the checker was updated and now says our connection now an handle 1000:220 and when enquiring about that I was told by BTOR they are now using 10GPON between our ONT and the exchange.

But TBH I didn't think the 4 Port ONT could handle 10Gbit, maybe it can, maybe it cant, I just don't know.

The existing ONTs almost certainly won't do 10GPON.

That makes sense, I did have a feeling it wouldn't.

It was where they updated all the hardware along with installing more cables at our exchange resulting in all us loosing connection + phone (FVA) for a short time and once back up I noticed that I had lower latency (i.e. dropped by half) and now have my speed 24/7 along with the BTW site then saying the faster speeds.

I spoke to BT who had no clue of any work, so I spoke to BTWholesale who could see work was being done and said to speak to BTOR, so I did and they actually mentioned they have upgraded the all the hardware at the exchange to use 10G-PON and a reset / interruption in the connection was required so that they could move everyone over to it, so maybe the new hardware is switchable remotely between GPON and 10GPON, which makes sense to me.

Either way I am very happy what ever they did due to my connection is now a lot better now

In reply to a post by candlerb:

However, 10GPON and regular GPON are designed to run side-by-side on the same fibre - they are on different wavelengths, ships that pass in the night. This means OR can enable 10GPON for the big customers, and leave regular GPON running for everyone else on the same splitter, so they don't have to replace everyone's existing ONT.

Yeah, I just this moment did a quick search.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I expect the reason the 10G-based services have such a high installation charge is to recover the cost of swapping to a 10G-capable ONT, as well as 10GPON upgrades to the OLT.

The thing is BTOR says all our hardware at our exchange have all been upgraded to that already, so not sure how they would recover that, maybe once those new faster services start the cost will be in with that.

But maybe the information they told me was wrong.

Paul

For XGPON you get given an XGPON compatible ONT

So while the exchange may be ready, fully expect new ONT to be sent out to those buying the Gigabit service i.e. the £500 setup exists for a reason.

You need to do a reality check, the wholesale prices for the new XGPON services i.e. 500 and 1000 Mbps are already public

What an ISP will charge depends on how contended they make the service.

In reply to a post by F9B54DA3BB3C:

I had forgotten about how asymmetric the connection speeds were (which is rather embarrassing considering how often I moan about it). Wanting to use a multi port ONT for better speed makes sense to me, for some reason I was thinking that there was a gigabit symmetrical (Openreach) FTTP option (D'oh).

This particular site is likely to get FTTP from Hyperoptic some time. It's in scope and all the surveys have been done. That will give symmetrical connectivity via their own fibre. It's a relatively new build so running cables through risers is pretty straightforward. In the interim, if it was felt essential to have a backup, I'd go for FTTC with a different ISP as that's available too.

My biggest annoyance at home is the slow upload speed. I should soon be able to upgrade as my cabinet now has G.Fast, although it's not taking orders yet, and Community Fibre will be coming soon with symmetrical FTTP up to 10Gbps.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

For XGPON you get given an XGPON compatible ONT

So while the exchange may be ready, fully expect new ONT to be sent out to those buying the Gigabit service i.e. the £500 setup exists for a reason.

Yeah that's fine and I fully understand that, not know my ONT Specs didn't help much either.

Paul

It would seem unlikely that Openreach would allow people to just �hot swap� their ONT�s doesn�t it ?

What of registering the new serial number ? Wouldn�t people rather have someone on hand if and when things go Pete Tong ? Carrying a spare if no.1 is duff.

What of cleaning and reconnecting the fibre to the new ONT ? Seems simple enough, but having seen contractors balls it up so often, it doesn�t fill me with confidence for Joe Public to carry this out without mishap.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You need to do a reality check, the wholesale prices for the new XGPON services i.e. 500 and 1000 Mbps are already public

What an ISP will charge depends on how contended they make the service.

I am already aware of those prices, I was referring to what BT will actually charge once they start to provide those two new speeds.

But yeah the end price would depend on that.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It would seem unlikely that Openreach would allow people to just �hot swap� their ONT�s doesn�t it ?

What of registering the new serial number ? Wouldn�t people rather have someone on hand if and when things go Pete Tong ? Carrying a spare if no.1 is duff.

What of cleaning and reconnecting the fibre to the new ONT ? Seems simple enough, but having seen contractors balls it up so often, it doesn�t fill me with confidence for Joe Public to carry this out without mishap.

I think he meant an engineer would be sent out to do the swap over.

TBH I would have no issues in swapping over the hardware and phoning up a number and stating the serial number to them and waiting for it wo connect up...

But saying that, I would still opt for an engineer visit so that if anything went wrong I wouldn't to be blamed and then have to pay for an engineer visit.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

having seen contractors balls it up so often, it doesn�t fill me with confidence for Joe Public to carry this out without mishap.

Shurely not! The contractor who installed the second phone line at the site I mention above was very professional and left it like this

I suspect this was necessary due to the new NTE 5C sockets needing greater ventilation to cope with faster services.

I Joe Womble may have inadvertantly repositioned it after he left

PS - he did want to disconnect the other working line so that he could use its pair but I thought that might cause a few problems

Of course the send may involve it being delivered in an installers hands and not just a random courier service

BT Consumer is NOT going to retail a service to consumers with a £500+ setup fee.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Consumer is NOT going to retail a service to consumers with a £500+ setup fee.

LOL, you do have a point there

Paul

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

having seen contractors balls it up so often, it doesn�t fill me with confidence for Joe Public to carry this out without mishap.

Shurely not! The contractor who installed the second phone line at the site I mention above was very professional and left it like this

I suspect this was necessary due to the new NTE 5C sockets needing greater ventilation to cope with faster services.

I Joe Womble may have inadvertantly repositioned it after he left

PS - he did want to disconnect the other working line so that he could use its pair but I thought that might cause a few problems

Oh my, well they put to shame the (I think) Kellys engineer that re-did our internal copper line from the BT80 (by window in front room) to NTE-5A Master Socket (in the hallway), they hid the cable by tucking it under the carpet to save going round the door frame.

And due to not knowing this and 5 years of a wheel chair going over it resulted in a broken cable and a physical short, to which BT said we would have to pay for an engineer to come out to fix it, so said a few kind words and said no worries I will completly redoo the whole lot, which I did and never had any internal issues, only external ones.

Paul

No BBU ?

As there's a separate voice line it's not important. The Openreach engineer who did the FTTP install, and who was excellent, asked if I wanted one and I said no as the whole thing is on a much larger UPS anyway. This powers all network and telephone equipment including wifi access points and switches via PoE.

The UPS feeds the red sockets in my first photo and the power adapter for the ONT plugs into that. Run time on power failure is somewhat over an hour and I get an email notification if the power goes out.

Fair enough.