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Standard User max360
(regular) Wed 13-Feb-19 00:06:26
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FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[link to this post]
 
If you go to: https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-fi...
It now shows FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.

Exchange list:

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/docs/def...

ISP: BT - FTTP 330Mb/50Mb
ISP: PlusNet - FTTC - 80Mb/20Mb

Birmingham Fibre First Program: FTTP - BT Ultra fast fibre 2 plus package - 330Mb down 50Mb up.

Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 24 - Funded Privately (Community Partnership).
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 13-Feb-19 12:41:44
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
They did say more detail would be coming, had been meaning to go digging and build an exchange list as the ones to keep an eye on.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 13:20:14
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'm on the Headingley exchange (or I would be if I wasn't with Virgin) and Openreach are all over the area / my street at the moment, presumably working on this. Maybe a stupid question but what sort of speeds are they looking at offering when the work's done in an area?


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Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 13-Feb-19 14:10:06
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
330/50 seems to be the highest residential ISP's are selling.

There are 1000/220 products that OpenReach sell over FTTP but they are only available in certain areas and sold by specific ISP's as expensive business products.

There's nothing stopping other ISP's selling 1000/220 as a residential product at a later date though. That's provided they have the backhaul to cope with it. Comes with a hefty install cost of £500 + vat.

OpenReach FTTP products and prices:

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

That's the prices OpenReach charge ISP's. The final price for customers is whatever the ISP decide.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 13-Feb-19 14:12:36)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 14:48:32
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Cheers, will keep an eye on checkers and have a look at what's available when they change.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Wed 13-Feb-19 15:19:51
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
Looking at the map and list on those links shows how much OR have to go.

I live in the Greater Manchester area and unless its my colourblindness, on the map it just shows build in progress, on the western part and the southern parts.

I know there are some full fibre products in the next town to me so maybe the map only shows the fibre first projects. I'd have included the other full fibres if I was them as the map looks bare.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 13-Feb-19 16:06:48
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

What I know is live in the Greater Manchester area

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 16:45:50
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
Looking at the map and list on those links shows how much OR have to go.

I live in the Greater Manchester area and unless its my colourblindness, on the map it just shows build in progress, on the western part and the southern parts.

I know there are some full fibre products in the next town to me so maybe the map only shows the fibre first projects. I'd have included the other full fibres if I was them as the map looks bare.


I'd recommend a look at the list and a note of the caveats Openreach mentioned. They were very clear that this was a specific subset covering that one programme smile
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 16:46:01
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

There's nothing stopping other ISP's selling 1000/220 as a residential product at a later date though. That's provided they have the backhaul to cope with it. Comes with a hefty install cost of £500 + vat.


They can't support too many customers at this sort of speed because the fibre is a shared resource and runs at 2500Mbps down then is shared between several properties. You don't get your own fibre back to the exchange or network switch with GPON that BT are installing, but share a single fibre between several other properties. I'm not sure how many BT will split that signal fibre up between, anyone know?

Basically the light from the single fibre is split by prisms and sent to all the connected properties. Data is broadcast to every property connected to that single fibre at the same time, so we all see everyone else's data on the end of our individual fibres, with the ONT (aka fibre modem) ignoring everyone else's but our own. Expensive kit in the exchange is responsible for multiplexing everyone's data into that broadcast. Sending data back up is more tricky, so each property gets a time slot where they can send data back in a round robin type fashion, which is why this technology again favours download speeds rather than upload speeds.

I suspect the extra install cost of £500 is to cover someone coming out and switching the fibre to a spare one that will then only ever serve a couple of properties, rather than half a dozen or so, in order to offer those speeds. A typical domestic street may not have enough spare fibres to offer everyone a 1Gig connection speed. The other reason 1Gbps is available but not the norm and hard to get, is so BT can take part in the Gigabit Broadband Voucher Scheme.

The positives of this type of install is cost and speed, as you only need powered equipment at the exchange, with all the splitting to properties being passive (just light being split by prisms) and requires no power or kit. The negatives is contention down that single fibre cable and offering fast symmetrical speeds, plus fibre breaks can be more difficult to find.

The sharing of that single fibre isn't a problem as such as the whole internet is shared and contended, and not too different from everyone connecting back point-to-point to a VDSL cabinet and then being sliced and diced up together and sent over the single fibre cable back to the exchange. But it does limit speeds that can be offered as it is always a bottleneck.

Regards

Phil
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 13-Feb-19 16:48:26
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
OpenReach do a 32 way split.
They can sell as many 1000/220 services as they like.

The £500 install fee is banked by OpenReach and will be used to upgrade to XG-PON where necessary.

edit: typo

2nd edit: The PON split isn't the limiting factor. It's the backhaul.
Many networks do a 32 way split on G-PON with 1 gig services.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 13-Feb-19 16:51:36)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 17:03:01
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Many thanks for the info. Although surely a 32 way split with GPON at 2.5Gbps, would only guarantee 78Mbps per customer. Of course not everyone is using their connection at the same time it's how they get away with it, but as soon as you had 2 customers using their 1Gbps service, they will drop to almost half speed, and that is assuming the remaining 30 customers are not using their connection.

At least they have the option to upgrade to XG-PON in the future.

Regards

Phil
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 13-Feb-19 17:56:23
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Bingo and welcome to the world where Gigabit is sold across the globe

The Gigabit XG-PON is a tick the Gigabit paper exercise at present in my opinion.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 13-Feb-19 18:29:49
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Many thanks for the info. Although surely a 32 way split with GPON at 2.5Gbps, would only guarantee 78Mbps per customer. Of course not everyone is using their connection at the same time it's how they get away with it, but as soon as you had 2 customers using their 1Gbps service, they will drop to almost half speed, and that is assuming the remaining 30 customers are not using their connection.


Nope: two customers using 1G download will be perfectly fine. *Three* customers using full 1G download will get a share of ~800M each.

The reality is, nobody canes a 1G link 24x7. And if they did, the cost of the transit would be way more than the monthly rental of a residential service; the ISP would get rid of them under their abuse / fair usage T&Cs. A 1G leased line lets you fill it 24x7, and that's one reason it's so expensive.

Shaping policies can stop big users swamping out the smaller ones.

The same sort of aggregation happens upstream anyway. Do you think if an ISP sells a thousand 330Mbps residential FTTP services, they will buy 330Gbps of transit upstream? No. Statistical multiplexing comes into play. They'll scale it based on their actual usage during their "busy hour" - and maybe accept a small amount of degradation to the greediest users during that time.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 13-Feb-19 18:39:53
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Sorry was getting maths confused regard 2 customers getting half.

One thing we know for sure, is no matter how fast our Internet connections become, we just use up what is there.

Of course no one canes a 1G link 24/7, and if they did they would likely get booted off, however the reality is people do cane their connections at specific peak times, it's what causes contention and slow downs now.

There is little point in buying a 1G fibre connection if at times you are most likely to want to us it, you are getting considerably less. It just becomes 1G in name only. Luckily the way the industry is policed now, they will not be able to sell that connection as 1G if people see less, so that's something.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Feb-19 18:40:30)

Standard User TechServ
(learned) Wed 13-Feb-19 21:10:28
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
You have to remember that most customers currently take a 40Mbos / 55Mbps variant - that leaves ample PON capacity to support customers on high rates including Gigabit services.

As soon as the PON circuit reaches capacity it can be upgraded to XGPON - customers paying for Gigabit services are already contributing towards that future upgrade.

Its no different to monitoring on Cablelinks and L2S for scheduled capacity upgrades
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Thu 14-Feb-19 16:27:32
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
One thing we know for sure, is no matter how fast our Internet connections become, we just use up what is there.


You might think that, but you would be wrong. I have a 10Gbps connection on my console server at work (most of my working day is spent in remote sessions onto that server managing a HPC facility) and I have never maxed it out ever. Everything else is too slow. Do a speed test and it struggles to show over 1Gbps let alone 10Gbps. Best I have got was about 8Gbps to another server within the University.

I only max out my actual desktop which has a 1Gbps link transfering files within the University.
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Thu 14-Feb-19 16:33:06
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: TechServ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TechServ:
As soon as the PON circuit reaches capacity it can be upgraded to XGPON - customers paying for Gigabit services are already contributing towards that future upgrade.


Except XGPON requires new ONT's as well OLT's. If you have insufficient capacity for say 330/50 users it is probably cheaper to put a new splitter in with extra backhaul. I find it hard to believe they only pull a single fibre to each DP point (it would be madness to do so).

I also thought that Openreach where using lower split rations than 32:1, with 16:1 being stuck in my mind. Personally I would avoid going higher than 9:1 if it where me.
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Thu 14-Feb-19 16:46:04
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
A typical domestic street may not have enough spare fibres to offer everyone a 1Gig connection speed. The other reason 1Gbps is available but not the norm and hard to get, is so BT can take part in the Gigabit Broadband Voucher Scheme.


At split rations at or below 1:9 you could deploy CDWM PON for symmetrical 10Gbps to all nine splits simultaneously. I don't think anyone has suitable splitters to deploy outside quite yet but the technology exists for indoor usage. I am sure if Openreach put out a procurement request it could be filled pretty quickly.

Basically you pair up the 18 CDWM wavelengths and use suitable BiDi SFP's. Though I doubt you would get the exchange end in an SFP if you wanted to avoid splitters in the exchange. Probably need at least a QSFP+ or more likely a X2 or XENPAK format.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 14-Feb-19 17:30:40
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
I find it hard to believe they only pull a single fibre to each DP point (it would be madness to do so).


I don't think the splitters go at the DPs. Some DPs only serve 2 or 3 properties.

From what I've read, a splitter node contains four 1:32 splitters, so can serve up to 128 properties. There would then be multistrand cables from this to the individual DPs.
Standard User Thinker27
(newbie) Thu 14-Feb-19 20:44:29
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Could I please put in a plea on behalf of all the readers and lurkers who would like to learn from the information on this forum. Some of the posts are quite impenetrable even to those with a good technical knowledge, due to the excessive use of acronyms, and the poor English and the typos. It would be wonderful if the expert posters could define acronyms the first time they are used, and read through and correct the post before uploading it.

In this thread, what is someone not already in the know to make of CDWM? Is "split rations" really the right term? XG-PON HPC ONT OLT BiDi SFPs QSFP+ X2 XENPAK......???

Could someone write or provide a link to a brief primer about FTTP infrastructure written in plain technical English? Naming and describing the ducts poles manholes cables cabinets splitters aggregators drops prisms terminals, the nature of the electrical and optical signals and the processing of them, power supplies, and anything else commonly involved. With that to hand maybe we mere mortals can understand what the rare specialists are on about.
Standard User busterboy
(member) Thu 14-Feb-19 21:44:59
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: Thinker27] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Thinker27:
Could I please put in a plea on behalf of all the readers and lurkers who would like to learn from the information on this forum. Some of the posts are quite impenetrable even to those with a good technical knowledge, due to the excessive use of acronyms, and the poor English and the typos. It would be wonderful if the expert posters could define acronyms the first time they are used, and read through and correct the post before uploading it.

In this thread, what is someone not already in the know to make of CDWM? Is "split rations" really the right term? XG-PON HPC ONT OLT BiDi SFPs QSFP+ X2 XENPAK......???

Could someone write or provide a link to a brief primer about FTTP infrastructure written in plain technical English? Naming and describing the ducts poles manholes cables cabinets splitters aggregators drops prisms terminals, the nature of the electrical and optical signals and the processing of them, power supplies, and anything else commonly involved. With that to hand maybe we mere mortals can understand what the rare specialists are on about.


Totally agree.

BTBroadband
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 14-Feb-19 22:48:46
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: Thinker27] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Thinker27:
Could I please put in a plea on behalf of all the readers and lurkers who would like to learn from the information on this forum. Some of the posts are quite impenetrable even to those with a good technical knowledge, due to the excessive use of acronyms, and the poor English and the typos. It would be wonderful if the expert posters could define acronyms the first time they are used, and read through and correct the post before uploading it.

In this thread, what is someone not already in the know to make of CDWM? Is "split rations" really the right term? XG-PON HPC ONT OLT BiDi SFPs QSFP+ X2 XENPAK......???

Could someone write or provide a link to a brief primer about FTTP infrastructure written in plain technical English? Naming and describing the ducts poles manholes cables cabinets splitters aggregators drops prisms terminals, the nature of the electrical and optical signals and the processing of them, power supplies, and anything else commonly involved. With that to hand maybe we mere mortals can understand what the rare specialists are on about.

Totally agree that people should define an acronym before using it as it is good practice but not sure the A to Z document you're requesting actually exists here or anywhere on the internet as most of us have been hunting for it for some time.

The best way I have found to learn about broadband is to get involved in the conversations on this forum (rather than lurking) and simply ask questions of those in the know and you will pick things up as there is no shortcut to learning.

[Edit] Don't think anyone on purpose uses poor English and creates typos, its just the way things are. I check my posts several times before I press post and I still find typo's afterwards. Please remember its a forum not an exam frown

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Feb-19 23:01:04)

Standard User busterboy
(member) Thu 14-Feb-19 23:16:22
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
Totally agree that people should define an acronym before using it as it is good practice but not sure the A to Z document you're requesting actually exists here or anywhere on the internet as most of us have been hunting for it for some time.

The best way I have found to learn about broadband is to get involved in the conversations on this forum (rather than lurking) and simply ask questions of those in the know and you will pick things up as there is no shortcut to learning.

[Edit] Don't think anyone on purpose uses poor English and creates typos, its just the way things are. I check my posts several times before I press post and I still find typo's afterwards. Please remember its a forum not an exam frown


Thanks for the honest reply dect to which I totally agree with you, spending time reading and learning does indeed further our knowledge but I must be a really slow learner. tongue

You joined Wed 05-Dec-18 09:53:52

I joined Sat 21-Jun-03 23:45:43

I certainly am a slow learner although I must admit I don't spend my life on here. smile

BTBroadband
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 01:20:16
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: busterboy] [link to this post]
 
It didn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me, either. Looked like someone vomited acronyms onto a post.
Standard User Thinker27
(newbie) Fri 15-Feb-19 01:24:44
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I sounded like a schoolmistress, frustration got the better of me. I do have the greatest respect for those who give up their time to help, and I appreciate everyone is busy.

I try and note snippets of information to build up a picture, and also research new concepts via google.

If I may set out my understanding of how it all works, perhaps others could correct it and add the proper names for the parts and more detail.

In the telephone exchange (does it have to be a telephone exchange? are there other places? presumably it is usually here because of the existing ducts. what is the proper name for this part of the network?) there is some electronic equipment, essentially a router (called a?) for connecting subscribers' data to the Internet backbone (operated by Openreach?) via "backhaul". The backhaul medium is optical fibre.

Does the ISP (internet service provider) have any physical equipment here of are they just billed for the connection and throughput?

All routing is done by electronics and all transport is done through fibre, so the router has an electronic to optical converter on its output and vice versa on its input. There are always two connectors on each interface, one for upstream data and one for downstream. (Is this true? I imagine there are standard lasers and phototransistors and the two directions would interfere if on the same fibre. Or at least it is easier to provide only a single converter on each connector.)

The data is all IP packets, unchanged between the fibre and the router, and the packets to/from different users are all mixed together in the routers to get them through the system as efficiently as possible. Each packet contains a destination IP address, a source IP address, and the payload (user data) and the routers look at the addresses to route the packets from node to node through the internet.

Fibre cables radiate from the exchange into the community. What does a cable look like? How big, how many fibres? Any copper in it for power? They go in a tube about 25mm diameter with a yellow stripe called a subduct, and through larger ducts. They may run up and between poles. Are there joints in this path, or are great lengths pulled out from a reel? If jointed, how and in what housing? Are there any cabinets? What and where are splitters and aggregators? Is any electricity used?

In the destination building is an ONT (optical network terminal), also called a modem, which is an optical-electronic interface. There may be a TP (termination point) or BFP (building flexibility point) that anchors the end of the external cable, with a fibre link to the ONT. The ONT presents an Ethernet socket for a copper cable to connect to a router.

Hyperoptic deliver a fibre cable to a router in a multi-unit building and then Cat 5E copper cable to individual flats. Openreach provide a fibre to each flat.

There are a number of different topologies of fibre network, one (name?) being a single fibre (pair?) that runs all the way from the exchange to the premises and another being a passive optical network where a fibre is split by prisms into multiple branches to separate premises (GPON?) The consumer doesn't get to choose or know which system they will be provided with.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 15-Feb-19 01:53:49
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: Thinker27] [link to this post]
 
You seem to be asking someone to write, in a forum, a complete explanation of how the Internet is implemented in the UK, along with a description of every item of equipment down to the level of the various types of optical cables that may be used in every possible circumstance nationwide, by a number of different companies as well as Openreach.

That simply isn�t going to happen. Quite apart from the speed a lot of that changes literally every three months.

A good start would be to read the guides on the parent (Main) site of these forums, and then spend a few hours browsing the kitz website.

I have a noddy guide in my sig, covering things at a simpler level and with a glossary of many terms, but not the ones you are listing. My site is also in need of considerably updating but the essentials in it are still correct.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 15-Feb-19 02:11:21)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 02:01:00
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Except XGPON requires new ONT's as well OLT's. If you have insufficient capacity for say 330/50 users it is probably cheaper to put a new splitter in with extra backhaul. I find it hard to believe they only pull a single fibre to each DP point (it would be madness to do so).

I also thought that Openreach where using lower split rations than 32:1, with 16:1 being stuck in my mind. Personally I would avoid going higher than 9:1 if it where me.


Except XGPON runs alongside GPON, so you provision new customers on XGPON and perhaps move a heavy user onto that platform too, or run some combination of the above, and run them beside one another rather than using an additional port. Migrate over a period of time as other operators have migrated people from BPON to GPON and you're good.

I'm not aware of any evidence or basis in fact or capacity planning for restricting a GPON split to just 9 users, especially when the average user is purchasing less than 100Mb. 250Mb per user is profound overkill.

There are standard capacity planning methods and Openreach probably use them. Simplified it's to take the average load at peak time and ensure there's enough headroom for a user on the highest available tier to burst.

As even FTTP customers are only using a few megabits per second at peak times and OR are quite asymmetric 2.4G/1.2G is fine, even if there's a 1G/220M customer on the split.

The spare fibres are for fault usage. The normal process is to manage increased demand by opening up an XGPON signal as an overlay.

WDM-PON is not practical right now. It needs cooled DFB lasers and the split has to be much smaller than with XGPON.

XGPON - 10 Gbit PON. Shares 10Gb downstream and usually 2.5Gb upstream, but 10 is possible with more expensive equipment in homes, between usually 32 end users.

GPON - Gigabit Passive Optical Network. 2.4G downstream, 1.2G upstream shared between usually 32 end users.

BPON - Broadband PON. 622Mb downstream, 155Mb upstream between 32+ users.

WDM-PON - Wave Division Multiplexed Passive Optical Network: Uses different wavelengths / colours of light for each connected customer so they don't share capacity, each have their own wavelengths. Needs extra equipment on both sides of the fibre link.

DFB - Distributed Feedback Laser diode. More stable and expensive than the Fabry-Perot interferometer that may be used for other PON.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 02:11:41
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps. *DELETED*


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Ignitionnet
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 08:13:31
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: busterboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by busterboy:
I certainly am a slow learner although I must admit I don't spend my life on here. smile
If I lived where you lived I wouldn't be on here either smile I may have more time because I'm retired but that has its disadvantages as well frown
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 09:18:51
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Hi

You are ahead of the curve of most people and the applications needing that sort speed haven't arrived yet for the masses. There have been the same conversations about data speeds and it being more than enough for decades yet we keep needing more. At one time 256Kbps was considered ample for ADSL and before that 64Kbps ISDN ran whole offices, I worked in one with 4 terminals connecting back to HO over ISDN and it all worked fine. There were conversations about did we need 2 lines for 128Kbps for a new office but decided no office needed that much smile

Remote desktop sessions don't use much bandwidth, most of the time they are transferring very little data unless you are transferring files, then the file transfer speed is mostly bottle-necked by the protocol and server. So not surprised you don't use all that capacity or get close.

Regards

Phil
Standard User TechServ
(learned) Fri 15-Feb-19 09:20:26
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Except XGPON requires new ONT's as well OLT's.


that's not entirely correct XGPON can coexist on the same fibre and PON splitter as it uses different wavelengths, so while the head end would need an additional XGPON OLT (or card) there is no service change to users on lower tier connections - they can remain on the existing OLT and keep the same ONT in their property.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 09:45:52
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
I only ever remember a BT Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN) product called ISDN2 (rather than just ISDN) which was referred too as 2B+D (2 bearers + 1 delta) and had 2 x 64Kbps telephone lines (they could be either aux/stroke or separate numbers). We used an iMate tester when installing and detecting faults on them. I remember a lot of them being used for video conferencing and as a backup for data circuits as most data circuits in those days were BT Kilostreams and Megastreams.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Feb-19 09:59:16)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 15-Feb-19 19:04:19
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
In reply to a post by TechServ:
As soon as the PON circuit reaches capacity it can be upgraded to XGPON - customers paying for Gigabit services are already contributing towards that future upgrade.

. I find it hard to believe they only pull a single fibre to each DP point (it would be madness to do so).


Saw a brand new cable in a duct going to a pole (there were no poles beyond it) in a Fibre Cities area. It had a label on it that said 3x BFT (blown fibre tubes). It�s not my area of expertise so I can�t really discuss this point. So I�m merely passing on what I saw.

Could just be a couple of spares in case of faults though.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Feb-19 19:06:23)

Standard User arfster
(knowledge is power) Fri 15-Feb-19 20:39:17
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
Pleasantly surprised to find they've already done my road - which is strange, cos I've never seen any roadworks. Does make sense though looking at the maps, the areas they cover are those that aren't getting Gfast.

Now just need to find a cheap provider. BT 60/mth seems a lot.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 15-Feb-19 21:45:49
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: arfster] [link to this post]
 
If ducts and chambers are in place already and in good condition then may not require any road works at all

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sat 16-Feb-19 08:52:35
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: Thinker27] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Thinker27:
Sorry I sounded like a schoolmistress, frustration got the better of me. I do have the greatest respect for those who give up their time to help, and I appreciate everyone is busy.

I try and note snippets of information to build up a picture, and also research new concepts via google.

If I may set out my understanding of how it all works, perhaps others could correct it and add the proper names for the parts and more detail.

In the telephone exchange (does it have to be a telephone exchange? are there other places? presumably it is usually here because of the existing ducts. what is the proper name for this part of the network?) there is some electronic equipment, essentially a router (called a?) for connecting subscribers' data to the Internet backbone (operated by Openreach?) via "backhaul". The backhaul medium is optical fibre.

Does the ISP (internet service provider) have any physical equipment here of are they just billed for the connection and throughput?

All routing is done by electronics and all transport is done through fibre, so the router has an electronic to optical converter on its output and vice versa on its input. There are always two connectors on each interface, one for upstream data and one for downstream. (Is this true? I imagine there are standard lasers and phototransistors and the two directions would interfere if on the same fibre. Or at least it is easier to provide only a single converter on each connector.)

The data is all IP packets, unchanged between the fibre and the router, and the packets to/from different users are all mixed together in the routers to get them through the system as efficiently as possible. Each packet contains a destination IP address, a source IP address, and the payload (user data) and the routers look at the addresses to route the packets from node to node through the internet.

Fibre cables radiate from the exchange into the community. What does a cable look like? How big, how many fibres? Any copper in it for power? They go in a tube about 25mm diameter with a yellow stripe called a subduct, and through larger ducts. They may run up and between poles. Are there joints in this path, or are great lengths pulled out from a reel? If jointed, how and in what housing? Are there any cabinets? What and where are splitters and aggregators? Is any electricity used?

In the destination building is an ONT (optical network terminal), also called a modem, which is an optical-electronic interface. There may be a TP (termination point) or BFP (building flexibility point) that anchors the end of the external cable, with a fibre link to the ONT. The ONT presents an Ethernet socket for a copper cable to connect to a router.

Hyperoptic deliver a fibre cable to a router in a multi-unit building and then Cat 5E copper cable to individual flats. Openreach provide a fibre to each flat.

There are a number of different topologies of fibre network, one (name?) being a single fibre (pair?) that runs all the way from the exchange to the premises and another being a passive optical network where a fibre is split by prisms into multiple branches to separate premises (GPON?) The consumer doesn't get to choose or know which system they will be provided with.
Hi Thinker27

I am at a lose how to correctly respond to your post, imagine being in an exam and turning over the question paper and not knowing where to start frown

You have so many questions and I can tell from above a very confused/mashed up understanding of how everything fits together currently.

I thought by leaving it a day I may be able to come up with a way but I am really sorry I simply can't respond with anything that's going to help you. Another poster has suggested a few good places to start so I would trying them and see how you get on.

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Feb-19 08:55:51)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sat 16-Feb-19 08:53:16
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: arfster] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by arfster:
Now just need to find a cheap provider. BT 60/mth seems a lot.


It is, although there's often a £150 cashback available. Sky have said they will be reselling FTTP - if you can wait for that it might shake things up a bit. Otherwise there are few other providers like Zen you can look at.

Remember you don't need to take the Ultrafast speeds on fibre - if all you want is a rock-solid 80/20 (or even 55/10), you can buy that instead.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 16-Feb-19 09:08:13
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Pretty sure Sky is quietly selling FTTP at the two FTTC speeds in areas where FTTP is the only superfast option.

Suspect its a loyal customer thing e.g. have bundle and moving to area i.e. done on a very low volume while they get support staff up to speed

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User arfster
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Feb-19 10:02:09
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
It is, although there's often a £150 cashback available. Sky have said they will be reselling FTTP - if you can wait for that it might shake things up a bit. Otherwise there are few other providers like Zen you can look at.


It's not a market I'd kept up to date on at all, so was a little surprising how few providers offer it yet. I guess there simply aren't that many lines.

Anyway, as you say, cashback! Can get 150 from a cashback site atm, + 130 reward card from BT, plus a free Amazon echo. That takes the sting out of the price a bit smile

As for alternatives, I absolutely don't need it, already have 80/20. Just a luxury.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 18-Feb-19 15:36:50
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Re: FTTP Fibre First Towns Build Maps.


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
my city completely void of colour so cityfibre aka vodafone for me then, I just hope by the time cityfibre are ready vodafone fix their backhaul issues.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
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