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Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Wed 13-Feb-19 10:27:34
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FTTPod install time?


[link to this post]
 
How long is it generally taking for FTTPod installs, from placing the order to having a working service?

We placed our order with Cerburs on the 9th of May last year (so over 9 months ago as I type) and the installation is not near complete yet, so I was wondering how long it has taken for others in this forum?

Openreach don't appear to be particularly efficient or motivated to complete the work. We needed a pole replacing (*), some ducts inspecting (and possibly clearing) and an access chamber in the verge before they can actually pull the fibre in. Each of these jobs on the same short stretch of road needs separate teams, each with traffic management. Crews will turn up, look at the road and report that they can't do the job because no traffic management has been booked for the job, they then come back a few weeks later when it has. Roadworks appear on roadworks.org and then never happen, get rearranged a few weeks later. Each task takes several attempts to complete, each with a week or three between. The latest delay is down to a manhole cover that can't be raised, and needs replacement which has been pending for almost a month now frown

Cerberus keep us informed with a weekly update and I can't really blame them for Openreach. Cerberus must be as frustrated about this as we are, so far this has cost them a lot of time to for no return.

So having got that frustration off my chest, what is your experience of FTTPod installs?

And to rub salt into the wounds, when the company next door ordered a leased line by mistake (they actually meant to do a linked FTTPod order with us) Openreach were out in force within days, stringing up fibre and getting on with it. The mistake was realised and the leased line order cancelled, now we have bits of orphaned fibre on site frown

Regards,
Mark Leman

* When the pole was replaced on the third attempt, the crew told me "not sure why we were asked to replace it, it was fine and we could just have retensioned the existing cables to achieve the clearance required"

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User andynormancx
(regular) Wed 13-Feb-19 11:12:56
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
If it helps, they can be just as hopeless when it comes to leased line installations, they can also drag on for a year or more.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 13-Feb-19 11:55:24
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I think it's a question that can't be answered, for some it's relatively quick, for others takes many months. There are so few FTTPoD installs a month you can't really gather any concrete average time anyway.

Do you have a project manager you can contact at Openreach?

Good luck, hope it all gets sorted very soon.

Regards

Phil


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 13-Feb-19 12:10:32
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
How long is it generally taking for FTTPod installs, from placing the order to having a working service?


That's a bit like asking how long's a piece of string? wink

Seriously though, you can't really put a time frame on it as there's too many variables, many of which Openreach don't have much control over.

Nevertheless, the lead times have improved massively over the last few years, it was normal to get the service installed in 2-3 years when FTTPoD first came out, these days Openreach try to complete most installs within 12 months. Mine was only 4 months but it was a fairly simple & hassle free install - which of course won't be applicable to everyone.

I would just go with the flow and accept that Openreach are working on it. If it goes beyond 12 months then I would chase this up with Openreach at a higher level.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 13-Feb-19 12:35:34
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: andynormancx] [link to this post]
 
To be fair alot of the problem are with a network, that in some places haven't had whole sale change since they where first put it. The bigger problem is that it sometimes looks as if the left and the right hand isn't communicating.

That second point seems to an ongoing issue with OR.

The engineers though seem to be mostly doing a sterling job and sometimes in pants conditions
Standard User andynormancx
(regular) Wed 13-Feb-19 12:56:11
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
In my year long effort to get a FTTC fault fixed I certainly met some good OR engineers. But I’m afraid many of them were completely ineffective, never reading the notes, even when prompted to and just going over the same ground that the previous engineers had already covered.

And the OR system was hopeless. Engineers often turned up without an appointment. Traffic controls that we supposed to be book weren’t, repeatedly. There was a refusal to replace clearly faulty cabling, because it was a lot of work.

The only reason it got fixed in the end was down to a single great engineer ignoring all the systems/rules:

- bypassed all the bookings to phone his mate he knew was driving the cherry picker that day
- called in favours to get another engineer on site to help
- ignored the fact that that pole inspection dates were out of date
- strung extra pairs that other engineers refused to touch
- stayed all day, fending of repeated angry calls from his manager wanting him to move on to other jobs
- making fixes to a line he wasn’t booked to touch

Edited by andynormancx (Wed 13-Feb-19 12:57:42)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 13-Feb-19 15:01:40
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
We placed our order with Cerburs on the 9th of May last year (so over 9 months ago as I type) and the installation is not near complete yet, so I was wondering how long it has taken for others in this forum?


I am in the same boat as you: survey order placed on March 10th last year, final quote received and balance paid June 26th, and install is still a long way from complete.

There have been several problems but they have been dealt with sequentially. So for example they found some blocked ducts in one section of street between here and the agg node, and it took a few months to fix those; then they did some new ductwork which was in the original plan, with some delays due to permit issues; then they found another section of blocked ducts in another street along the route, which they're currently working on. Recently they decided they'd need to dig another 164m of duct due to blockages and lack of capacity. That sounds like a big job but hasn't appeared on roadworks.org yet.

If the route had been fully tested end-to-end at the start, then a lot of this could have taken place in parallel.

There's no ONT installed yet, and no fibre between DP and house, but they did at least rod-and-rope the existing under-garden duct.

One just has to be patient smile
Standard User F00tS0re
(learned) Fri 15-Feb-19 09:25:16
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I placed my order for full survey in June,

Desktop quote received 10/09/18
Permission to proceed, issuing of invoicing etc.
Order paid/placed 21/09/18

170m of new duct for me to install on my land
240m of duct for Openreach to install in verge of single track country lane
2km of duct to be rodded, roped and fibre installed.
- no blockages as far as I am aware.


Current status:
Fibre installed, ONT installed with flashing green light.
Waiting for audit of fibre installation (a new thing)
ONT to be commission (this would be the normal installation point for ONT but jointer installed it to try and speed it up)
Go live date? No idea.

So 4-months, and just a couple of bits to go. But if any of the ducts had blockages these would have required sorting and added delay.
Standard User rman
(newbie) Mon 18-Feb-19 20:37:20
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Desktop quote received 03/09/18
Order paid/placed 23/10/18

- 1 blockage clearance took a day to remove with some ground work

Current status:
- 93 meters of new underground duct (they are just finishing up today/tomorrow), 3 days of work - this is to connect onto the fibre "spine".

I assume the next steps are running the Fibre down to my property and then installing the equipment in my house.
Standard User F00tS0re
(learned) Tue 19-Feb-19 17:05:13
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
The new duct should be roped already
They will need to rod & rope to your property.

My experience is that they pull fibre to your gate first, then joint it all.
After that they will rod & rope the duct to your house
Then appointment to install ONT.

Mine sped up considerably once all ducts rodded & roped and fibre jointing team took over. I was lucky in that my jointing engineer chased for overtime to get the job completed & even installed the ONT even through it wasn't technically his job.

Tea & Biscuits always help!
Standard User rman
(newbie) Tue 19-Feb-19 22:22:57
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
The new duct should be roped already
They will need to rod & rope to your property.

My experience is that they pull fibre to your gate first, then joint it all.
After that they will rod & rope the duct to your house
Then appointment to install ONT.

Mine sped up considerably once all ducts rodded & roped and fibre jointing team took over. I was lucky in that my jointing engineer chased for overtime to get the job completed & even installed the ONT even through it wasn't technically his job.

Tea & Biscuits always help!


Thanks for replying, they did the rod and rope under my driveway when they first came out, i've had blue rope pegged for months now. He did say it wasn't his job but would save the next guy spending time doing it smile

Not a clue how far they rod and roped though, i''ve only seen what they've done to my driveway. I did spot an openreach lorry pull up outside my house on the CCTV, the guy then followed the path of the ducts up the road and was out of sight for around an hour - again not sure what they were doing to be honest.

Looking forward to having it all completed!
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Wed 20-Feb-19 05:20:32
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
How long is it generally taking for FTTPod installs, from placing the order to having a working service?

I ordered at the end of last March, so coming up to 11 months and counting. The survey took place in early July.

(In my case, it's blocked ducts causing the delay, something which wasn't picked up in the initial survey. They've had several permits for the works denied, as part of the work takes place outside a primary school and the council won't let that happen in term time. As it happens there are duct-clearing works scheduled today until Friday, so hopefully it's coming closer to being done!)

Cerberus have been great in keeping me updated, FWIW.

Edited by Retron (Wed 20-Feb-19 05:25:25)

Standard User F00tS0re
(learned) Wed 20-Feb-19 16:44:30
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
Not a clue how far they rod and roped though, i''ve only seen what they've done to my driveway. I did spot an openreach lorry pull up outside my house on the CCTV, the guy then followed the path of the ducts up the road and was out of sight for around an hour - again not sure what they were doing to be honest.

Looking forward to having it all completed!


I suspect walking the route. An hour would get them a mile to a mile and a half and back if they were hunting for access covers. Possibly the start of the fibre pulling if all duct work done.
Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Thu 18-Apr-19 17:18:09
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
To answer my own question "How long is it generally taking for FTTPod installs, from placing the order to having a working service?"

We placed our order on the 9/5/18 and today Openreach installed the ONT, so 3 weeks short or a year.

The PON Led is on and steady, just waiting for Cerberus to activate the service now, and they say they are waiting for BT's system to say the installation order is closed.... so could still be a little bit more of a wait. but much, much closer then before.

Our FTTPod order was a linked install with the company next door, they complained to Openreach CEO directly about how long everything was taking. Things did get a much quicker after that. Interesting that the openreach installer today had been texted by the CEO complaints team to make sure the install was going ahead and had to report back on completion. So if your order is dragging on and on, then it might be worth an email.

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Apr-19 20:48:24
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Welcome to FTTP. Mine was installed fairly recently too, took around 6-7 months I believe. However, something strikes me as a little odd with your installation.

For me, I asked them for the PPPoE and IP address details a day or so before the installation so I could configure my network equipment ready for the big day. Have they not given you these details yet? I was able to use my service the moment the PON light was 'green', and was billed pro-rated for the service a day or so after the installation. Maybe a linked order is different, as mine was just a single order.

Edited by Ixel (Thu 18-Apr-19 20:48:55)

Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Thu 18-Apr-19 22:55:56
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
"I asked them for the PPPoE and IP address details a day or so before the installation"

Me too, they emailed the details and I had the router all set and ready to rock the moment the Openreach installer said he was done. My router (an ubiquiti edgerouter pro) did not immediately connect, so I called Cerberus and they said they were waiting for the job to be shown as complete on BTs database frown .I will try calling them again tomorrow.

I know the router works because it is already handling our VDSL line and a 100mbit microwave link, so unless I miss typed the username / password it should just work (just pasted them in to the boxes again to be sure - still not connection)

Was your install native FTTP or FTTPod?

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-19 23:01:54
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Ixels was FTTPod

Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Sat 20-Apr-19 08:46:08
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
The new duct should be roped already
They will need to rod & rope to your property.

My experience is that they pull fibre to your gate first, then joint it all.
After that they will rod & rope the duct to your house
Then appointment to install ONT.

Mine sped up considerably once all ducts rodded & roped and fibre jointing team took over. I was lucky in that my jointing engineer chased for overtime to get the job completed & even installed the ONT even through it wasn't technically his job.

Tea & Biscuits always help!


Not even just tea and biscuits! Just being a nice person helps. It amazes me that people expect above and beyond service when they’ve just had a rant and a rave (and maybe a swear) at someone!

Icaras
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Apr-19 16:32:55
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Not even just tea and biscuits! Just being a nice person helps. It amazes me that people expect above and beyond service when they’ve just had a rant and a rave (and maybe a swear) at someone!

+1

Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Sat 20-Apr-19 23:49:28
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Well two days after the install was 'completed' we still don't have a service.
Cerberus are still waiting for the install to be marked complete on (I assume) bt wholesales system.
So the other company in our linked order went back to openreach CEO complaints team and asked what was going on. Message came back that openreach have completed the installation and marked it done in their system. It should then go to bt wholesale, but they have 'lost the asset'. They can't do anything about this until next week and it probably needs the order cancelling and placed again. Hopefully this can be done by next Friday. I suppose after almost another year another week is not the end of the world but I was going to use the Easter break to make the changes to our work network whilst every one was out the office.

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Thu 25-Apr-19 10:51:53
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
So finally between Openreach, BTWholesale and Cerberus the magic incantations have been performed to activate our new FTTPoD line smile

I changed the routing in or Ubiquiti Edgerouter to route some traffic over the new link and it all sprung to life smile smile smile

Testing at 308/29 mbit/sec which will certainly do us for the moment.
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15561840537...

Once our initial year is up I will see if we can move to 500/165 or 1000/220, not for download but or the better upload speed.

So the answer to my question "FTTPod install time?" = in our case "2 weeks short of a year".

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 25-Apr-19 11:59:50
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Nice one!

At minimum, you will be able to move to 330/50 after 12 months. In principle you could even order a second FTTP service now, although bonding the two would probably be messy.
Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Apr-19 12:08:54
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
Congrats Mark. FTTPoD can be a fun time to test your patience and normal business logic. I'm waiting for BDUK fttp to arrive, and it seems there is conflicting information abound.
Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Thu 25-Apr-19 12:25:28
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Yes, even going from 30 to 50 up would be an noticeable improvement.

The FTTPod line is actually slower than the Callflow microwave link we currently use which is normally ~60-80mbit/s in both directions. However the microwave link is both expensive and unreliable.

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 25-Apr-19 13:51:34
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
You could ask your FTTPoD provider if they'd be able to do an in-contract regrade, and how much it would cost.

Otherwise, you could just order a second 330/50 line from another provider now - and treat the 12 month rental on the 330/30 as a sunk cost (and/or use it as a backup service).

I believe that if you got a 1-port ONT then upon receiving the new order, Openreach will either swap it for a 4-port one, or pull another fibre to the DP for a second ONT.
Standard User Garlic
(member) Thu 25-Apr-19 14:59:37
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You could ask your FTTPoD provider if they'd be able to do an in-contract regrade, and how much it would cost.

Otherwise, you could just order a second 330/50 line from another provider now - and treat the 12 month rental on the 330/30 as a sunk cost (and/or use it as a backup service).

I believe that if you got a 1-port ONT then upon receiving the new order, Openreach will either swap it for a 4-port one, or pull another fibre to the DP for a second ONT.


Surely no pulling just blow a new fibre? The cables usually have some spare

-----------
FTTP 80/20
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 25-Apr-19 15:32:17
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
If pre-connectorised, then I think a new one is required.

However if they pulled and spliced a traditional cable, then there are probably spare strands in it that they can splice onto.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 25-Apr-19 15:55:55
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Just to add that if they do ask whether an in-contract regrade is possible (which I doubt), I'd be curious to know too as I'd like to get 330/50 but I have a feeling I will need to pay off the remainder of the FTTPoD minimum term in full first.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 25-Apr-19 16:18:14
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I couldn't find it on the FTTPoD price list, but there's a line item on the Openreach FTTP price list:

Cancel/Amend/Modify - Regrading of existing upstream speed, both at point of sale and in-life - £5.82
Standard User MarkLeman
(regular) Thu 25-Apr-19 17:23:52
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You could ask your FTTPoD provider if they'd be able to do an in-contract regrade, and how much it would cost.

Otherwise, you could just order a second 330/50 line from another provider now - and treat the 12 month rental on the 330/30 as a sunk cost (and/or use it as a backup service).

I believe that if you got a 1-port ONT then upon receiving the new order, Openreach will either swap it for a 4-port one, or pull another fibre to the DP for a second ONT.


I think I will give Cerberus time to recover after all the effort they have put it to get our FTTPoD install sorted before asking for any changes. A year of managing the install for no income must be hard for them to support long term. I am not sure that regrading to 330/50 is even possible during the first year.

Next problem is to find out how to get Openreach to update their database so the house next door can order FTTP. Their phone line is connected to a DP on the side of our building and the FTTP connectorised block is next the DP, so really no reason why they should not be able to order it. However both www.dslchecker.bt.com and https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br... say they can only get FTTC. The bungalow that is also connects to the DP on our building does show up as able to get FTTP.

Even stranger .... if I check the house half way down our drive on https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.address shows something I have never seen before....

"FTTP on demand 1000/220 available"! I have only ever seen 330/30 for FTTPod.

Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me smile
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Apr-19 17:34:17
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
However if they pulled and spliced a traditional cable, then there are probably spare strands in it that they can splice onto.


Correct, those of us with spliced fibre have 4 fibre strands blown to the external CSP with 3 kept as spares. These are the guts of the CSP on my wall:

https://i.postimg.cc/PfwJsJQL/IMG-0360.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6pY5LvtP/IMG-0361.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Nf80FnVB/IMG-0362.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g2Y2ZDFR/IMG-0363.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/25yjHS5S/IMG-0364.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Qdr6Df92/IMG-001.jpg

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 25-Apr-19 17:37:41)

Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 25-Apr-19 18:06:09
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
Next problem is to find out how to get Openreach to update their database so the house next door can order FTTP. Their phone line is connected to a DP on the side of our building and the FTTP connectorised block is next the DP, so really no reason why they should not be able to order it. However both www.dslchecker.bt.com and https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br... say they can only get FTTC. The bungalow that is also connects to the DP on our building does show up as able to get FTTP.


What you describe is as expected.
Usually they only enable properties for WBC FTTP if they are on the same copper DP as you.

How many "properties passed" did they quote you and how many properties are on the same DP as you?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Apr-19 18:13:08
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Re: FTTPod install time?


[re: MarkLeman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
Next problem is to find out how to get Openreach to update their database so the house next door can order FTTP.


Properties connected to the same DP should benefit from native FTTP however AFAIK Openreach don't give out guarantees as to which additional properties will also benefit from FTTP on the back of the FTTPoD build.

If your neighbour is deadly serious about getting FTTP, probably worth getting a free desktop FTTPoD quote, any database anomalies will most likely be corrected by Openreach at that stage. Worst case scenario, if they really can't get native FTTP then FTTPoD will probably work out quite cheap (relatively).

In reply to a post by MarkLeman:
"FTTP on demand 1000/220 available"! I have only ever seen 330/30 for FTTPod.

Irrespective of what speed is shown for FTTPoD on the DSL checker, BT Wholesale don't sell anything above 330/30 on FTTPoD at present so i wouldn't read too much into higher speeds - that is unless you live in one of the few exchange areas in the E Midlands or S Wales where CPs such as Spectrum Internet or Syscomm can supply your neighbour with 1 Gig FoD using their own LLU backhaul.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 25-Apr-19 18:16:01)

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