Strange ISP Problem with line for 10 years

Hi, I have a really weird problem with my telephone line that has been an issue for 10 years and just wondered if anyone could shed any light as to what is happening.

Basically, 10 years ago we had an annex built on the side of our house for an elderly parent. When it was complete we had Sky Telephone and Broadband installed which worked perfectly for a few years.

At some point, I decided to move the broadband and line to Plusnet, which was a nightmare. The line was disconnecting everyday and they could not find a fault. We eventually got released and went back to Sky for another year or so with no problems. During that time I think we ended up on the Sky 38Mbps Fibre which was great.....now here comes the part where I might look dumb!

I decided to try Plusnet again as a few years had passed and we were now on Fibre, so I assumed the faults would be gone. I was wrong!!! We had the same issues with fibre, where it would drop every day and nobody could tell us why. After a lot of screaming and shouting, Plusnet once again released us from contract and I decided to try TalkTalk.....

I know TalkTalk shouldn't have been on my radar, but we ended up with around 2 years of great servcie on the 38Mbps package and then we moved to the 78Mbps package (I was getting around 74.5Mbps).

I was with TalkTalk about 4 years until this year EE kept ringing me as I have a couple of mobiles with them and they kept offering me 78Mbps but a lot dearer. I told them to do one a good few times until July when I got a call where they offered me the same TalkTalk package for £26 per month for 18 months. I decided to go for it and it's gone downhill fast

From the day the switched it on in July, it's disconnected, multiple times per day, they have sent an engineer who says there is no fault on the line etc. Bascially, the same issues as I had with Plusnet....My question really, is Plusnet, EE and BT I am told are essentially the same company, so could this be a fault in their network that they are not picking up on?

I find it strange that Sky and TalkTalk work fine, yet Plusnet and EE (both BT) refuse to work correctly.

I'm not trying to get out of the contract again

Since its VDSL2 its the same street cabinet hardware and same lines, the differences will be down to the hardware at your end, i.e. differences in how different providers routers cope with your line.

Also if previously on a 40/10 product which with some hardware had issues increasing the package speed to 80/20 is pushing more data across the line and increasing the exposure to potential errors.

Solutions - make sure there are is no phone extension wiring impacting on the service and get a Broadcom chipset based VDSL2 modem to sit in-between line and the Ethernet WAN port of the ISP router, i.e. broadcom based modems are generally better than the chipsets in a number of the ISP supplied routers.

The BT engineer said there was absolutely no problems with the wiring. So I can only assume it's the router. I am waiting for EE to ring me about a new one, other than that I will be cancelling the service as the standard TalkTalk router worked fine for 2 years+.

In reply to a post by gareth824:

The BT engineer said there was absolutely no problems with the wiring. So I can only assume it's the router. I am waiting for EE to ring me about a new one, other than that I will be cancelling the service as the standard TalkTalk router worked fine for 2 years+.

Or buy your own modem router and stop using isp supplied ones ... Given that you haven't explained what the disconnects are and any further set up details, most will point at the modem router.

Indeed. The main question is: when you changed from one service provider to another, did you also change router to one provided by the new service provider?

Yes. I used the Sky Hub for 2 years no problem and the TalkTalk Hub for a total of 4 years with no problems. Now using the EE Hub which disconnects everyday.

"Given that you haven't explained what the disconnects are".

If I knew that, I wouldn't be on here and the BT engineer didn't know, so I'm surprised you think I would. The setup is as I have explained if you read the post. Using the standard EE Hub. I don't have another router.

Maybe the question was �what sort of disconnects� ?

Is it just the wifi disconnecting, or is the router actually dropping sync ?

In reply to a post by gareth824:

"Given that you haven't explained what the disconnects are".

If I knew that, I wouldn't be on here and the BT engineer didn't know, so I'm surprised you think I would. The setup is as I have explained if you read the post. Using the standard EE Hub. I don't have another router.

The standard OR engineer, are trained to do a job, and not to know how every make of modem router works. and as Zarjaz says "what type of disconnects" is a better wording.

Do the lights blink and which one?

Is the disconnects happening on the wifi or the wired connection?

How many devices are you trying to use with it?

What happened to your other modem routers ?

EE Smart Hub, BT Home Hub and Plusnet Hub One are all generally versions of the same hardware

BT Home Hubs have a variety of reputations for not holding connection on some lines.

Thank you. They are sending me a new router, but think I am going to buy my own to see what happens.

Will the TalkTalk router work on EE lines?

Hi Gareth

I think the important thing here is to know what type of disconnections you are having. How do you know it has disconnected? How long before it reconnects again? Is it the same time everyday?

Just changing provider (where products are still VDSL) wouldn't physically change anything with the line itself. The only potential issue would be if you moved from a slower service to a faster one. The faster service simply uses up 'all the reserves' on the connection meaning it's much more sensitive to problems.

Regards

Phil

I don't think so. I got the username and password from the EE Router, but I cannot find anywhere to put it in the TalkTalk Router, so I'm assuming it can only be used with TalkTalk.

Hi, I know it's disconnecting because the EE Router tells me with the lights on the front

Multiple times per day, it cycles through a green, yellow and red/orange colour. Everything on wifi and ethernet goes down and it takes around 3 to 5 minutes for everything to come back up.

I've been into the router logs which I admit I know nothing about and all I can see it things like LCP Down and LCP Up messages and then lots of stats about devices connecting.

I've actually ordered a new third party router, so am going to give that a go.

The device cycles through aqua/green colour to yellow and then to red/orange. All the WiFI and Ethernet devices go offline for around 5 minutes. There are around 27 devices on the network but they are not all connected during the day. About 10 of them are smart might bulbs.

I've still got the TallkTalk Router which worked fine but there is NO username and password option that I can find to put in my EE credentials to try it with EE.

That sounds more like a router reboot, rather than a �disconnection�, which obviously happens during a reboot.

Where do you place the routers wrt overheating, (as in on another device or in direct sunlight), and how does the mains supply get to where you plug the routers in? Are you using extension sockets?

(Edit: Post written before your one about the 27 devices and smart lightbulbs).

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 19-Sep-19 11:40:05)

In reply to a post by gareth824:

All the WiFI and Ethernet devices go offline for around 5 minutes. There are around 27 devices on the network but they are not all connected during the day. About 10 of them are smart might bulbs.

From the logs its looking as if you are suffering ppp disconnects with the router rebooting which also affects your line speed. I had the same issue but with 10 to 13 devices with a cheap archer c2 which was having ppp disconnects. Replacing that with a new asus wifi router solved the issue.

If you do buy a new router, make sure its a dsl modem router (it needs a vdsl modem in it) i'm sure some here can give you some good ideas as to what to go for.

In reply to a post by gareth824:

I've still got the TallkTalk Router which worked fine but there is NO username and password option that I can find to put in my EE credentials to try it with EE.

Which talk talk router is it. I want to check if its fully locked. If it is, then you will need a more powerful router.

Also if buying a new modem/router check its got a decent DSL chipset in it ie. generally broadcom

Would suggest before hitting buy actually saying which device you are thinking of as people here will have some idea of the history of the device, plus some people end up buying the wrong thing totally.

The high number of devices now has me wondering if this is software in router issues, e.g. NAT table filling up and not flushing correctly crashing router. In scenarios like this going for a VDSL2 modem in one box bridged to an Ethernet router is often better as the choice of Ethernet router is much wider.

A cheap VDSL2 modem that supports bridge mode is the TP-Link W9970 (https://amzn.to/2NmFU47 £33) which have used for 3 years solid in front of BT, Plusnet and Vodafone routers and means I get higher connection speeds and in the case of the Vodafone router a lot less drops in service.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

EE Smart Hub, BT Home Hub and Plusnet Hub One are all generally versions of the same hardware

BT Home Hubs have a variety of reputations for not holding connection on some lines.

And all a steaming pile of junk IMHO.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Also if buying a new modem/router check its got a decent DSL chipset in it ie. generally broadcom

Would suggest before hitting buy actually saying which device you are thinking of as people here will have some idea of the history of the device, plus some people end up buying the wrong thing totally.

The high number of devices now has me wondering if this is software in router issues, e.g. NAT table filling up and not flushing correctly crashing router. In scenarios like this going for a VDSL2 modem in one box bridged to an Ethernet router is often better as the choice of Ethernet router is much wider.

A cheap VDSL2 modem that supports bridge mode is the TP-Link W9970 (https://amzn.to/2NmFU47 £33) which have used for 3 years solid in front of BT, Plusnet and Vodafone routers and means I get higher connection speeds and in the case of the Vodafone router a lot less drops in service.

Given the high amount of devices the OP has, probably going for a separate modem and a wifi router might be the best way forward. Given that the op whilst not understanding the logs, can get to the log means he should be able to set the two boxes up.

Hi the TalkTalk Router which worked great was the Super Router HG635 (it's got a Huawei logo on it).

I've actually taken the plunge after seeing a few other people with EE/Plusnet Router problems ordered the ASUS DSL-AC68U, which quite a few people on the EE Forums say has resolved their issues. I've got it on quick delivery for this evening, so hopefully I can see if it disconnects overnight.

The EE one has disconnected twice again since last night!

Cancel order

The ASUS DSL-AC68U uses a very bad mediatek chipset for the VDSL2 modem i.e. it is NOT stable on VDSL2/FTTC services which you are on.

I'd suggest the TP-Link 9970 or Draytek Vigor 130 depending on budget to run as VDSL2 modem
For router
Something like a Netgear Nighthawk X6 (https://amzn.to/2AuqRgk £149.99 Amazon), Asus also do more high spec more modern routers such as ASUS RT-AC86U which should handle lots of devices and give good Wi-Fi.

If an all in one box is preferred TP Link VR900 V2 (https://amzn.to/32R1JfN £119) has a fairly good reputation, and while not as powerful router generally the TP-link kit works well, just not as a pretty web interface as Asus/Netgear. There is the TPLink VR-2800 at £163 (https://amzn.to/2NrnIpV) that is probably more of a match for the Asus/Netgear kit and supports the good bits of the VDSL2 standards - no knowledge of how good people have found this on problematic lines.

Worst
modem
ever
!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If an all in one box is preferred TP Link VR900 V2 (https://amzn.to/32R1JfN £119) has a fairly good reputation, and while not as powerful router generally the TP-link kit works well, just not as a pretty web interface as Asus/Netgear. There is the TPLink VR-2800 at £163 (https://amzn.to/2NrnIpV) that is probably more of a match for the Asus/Netgear kit and supports the good bits of the VDSL2 standards - no knowledge of how good people have found this on problematic lines.

Remember that TP-Link limit the user interface with their own cut-down version of Telnet on the VR900 and VR-2800. If you want to run common monitoring programs like DSLStats or Routerstats you have to edit the config file to enable the full Telnet. I found the instructions to do this on another well known web-site that majors on DSL technology and information.

It's already arrived.

I was looking at the X6 on Amazon, but the comments state it does not have an in-built modem. I don't want two devices.

I try this for a few days and see how I go.

It's a pity you opened it.

The router part of it is great. WiFi OK. Modem, very poor. You will not find a single recommendation for it on these forums.

You might be very lucky and get a stable connection if the theory about the number of device connections is making the others fall over and reboot. But the throughput isn't likely to be better than adequate. If that.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Cancel order

The ASUS DSL-AC68U uses a very bad mediatek chipset for the VDSL2 modem i.e. it is NOT stable on VDSL2/FTTC services which you are on.

I was gonna mention - do not buy the dsl-ac68u but i couldn't offhand remember why, and hence left it to you and the others to explain.. Seems we are all too late! The gui on the asus compared to the tp-link is light and day

Hi, thanks for all your help I know you said send the ASUS Router back, but decided to give it a try and I have been online for over 2 days now with NO dropped connections, full 71Mbps which is all my line can get, plus the ping has come down from 24 to 18, still higher than TalkTalk but I am happy that I am now staying connected for more than a few hours.

More importantly my smart hub and lights are all working again and coming on at the right time, so think will keep it and see how it goes. Many thanks.

https://ibb.co/18YXphz (screenshot of uptime)

I had the same issue. Plusnet would disconnect 5+ times a day, using their supplied router. That would also drop the speed right down. I changed to Sky, and switched to their router which never disconnects. Exactly the same line, must just be the way that things are handled by different hardware.

In reply to a post by derby13:

I had the same issue. Plusnet would disconnect 5+ times a day, using their supplied router. That would also drop the speed right down. I changed to Sky, and switched to their router which never disconnects.

You do not in 99% of cases need to use the isp supplied modem-router. Even with virgin cable, you can put the modem-router in modem mode and use your own gear.

Exactly the same line, must just be the way that things are handled by different hardware.


some modem-routers are crappier than others. Or just buy your own