FTTP connection not near phone line

I have a question about the implications, if any, of the location of the Openreach ONT being located a long distance away from the copper phone line master socket.

Openreach were out today to pull fibre through from the pavement box to our house. They found that the nice new ducting that our copper phone line runs in is totally blocked, depite only being 2 years old!! They tried rodding, it, etc. but without any success. The ducting runs to the back of the house where the master socket is.

So instead they're going to run a new duct to the front of our house, which means it will be nowhere near the existing master socket.

Is this likely to be a problem in the future? For example, if we eventually have to go onto a voice over fibre solution, how would we distribute the phone signal to the extension sockets in the house. Note that where they're going to install the ONT is right next to an extension socket, but it's not the master socket.

Is this likely to be a problem in the future?

In short, no.

They could run the feed to ONT round to the back of the house from the new duct. Or Put it at the front, and use the extension wiring to liven up the existing voice service ......

To be honest, FVA services look to be on the wane. So when you do go the VOIP route, it'll most likely just be a handset plugged into the back of the CP router .....

My ONT is nowhere near my copper master socket, I'm not worried about it, or re-using copper extension cable routes either. When the point comes to ditch the copper voice service, I'll just get a VoIP handset and it'll either be Wifi anyway, or the dect basestation will go where the ONT/router are.

+1

Thanks for the replies. I guess if I did need to use our extension sockets for VOIP in the future, I'd need to find some way to disconnect the incoming copper line from the internal house wiring.

It's annoying that OR won't run the fibre round to the back of the house, as that's where my ethernet connected devices are - Sky Q and Smart TV. It's why we got the builders to put the master socket at the back of the house in the first place.

OR said the distance from where they want to put the new duct and where the existing master socket is was too far away

I had an open reach engineer at my home today pulling the fibre cable to the house ready for my install.
My main socket is in our hall, I asked if they could run a fibre cable round the house to the back of my entertainment unit so I can connect my amp sky etc etc and he said that wouldn�t be a problem.

To add, the way the communications providers will do the VoIP stuff in the router is that any normal phone will work, no need for a special VoIP phone, which is what I see some worrying about.

The change is around where you plug your phone in and for those who need help as want hardwired extensions rather than DECT of linking the router to the old wiring for voice service.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The change is around where you plug your phone in and for those who need help as want hardwired extensions rather than DECT of linking the router to the old wiring for voice service.

Yes, that�s my concern. If I want to use our internal phone wiring for extensions, how do I isolate it from the external copper phone line?

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Sep-19 07:41:08)

Remove the frontplate from the existing NTE.

We did away completely with landline phones when we moved to Virgin broadband, we all have mobiles so absolutely no need for a landline. I think as time goes on mobiles will replace the more traditional phones.

Openreach engineer visit yesterday, he had to go wandering down the road to get a mobile signal, as is often the case around here.
I first found Thinkbroadband (then ADSLguide) many years ago when looking for a decent modem/router, I brought a Zoom modem/router which was in the review section, it had a socket to take standard phone but make VIOP calls, so it's not exactly cutting edge tech.

Clearly some areas will always have bad reception, but with WiFi calling apps improving (and they do need to improve) all the time there are options for bad reception areas.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Remove the frontplate from the existing NTE.

Is it really that straightforward?

I was reading this web-page, and it seems more complicated than that
http://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_to:_Voice_reinjection

I�ve also heard mention of an interstitial plate that has a switch on it to turn off the copper phone line to allow the internal phone extension wiring to be used, but these don�t seem to be available other than from Openreach.

And no, using a mobile phone is not an option where I live.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Sep-19 14:06:36)

If you want to liven up the existing extension wiring, you�d need to feed in the dual tone from *wherever* and to stop it going back down the the external feed, you�d just have to take the face plate off the copper NTE.

FVA front plates are what you are describing...... but fitting one and providing voice service from an ONT or VOIP kit might be a little more involved if comms ain�t your ting.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Remove the frontplate from the existing NTE.

So, if I were to remove the frontplate, do I just leave nothing in it's place? All the extension wiring is connected to the backplate (it's a NTE5c socket), so would then be exposed.

Presumably I wouldn't be able to have a phone plugged in at the master socket anymore?

NTE5c removing the front plate does break the connection that feeds the extensions, even though they are connected to what is the backplate.

There is a passthrough connection made when you plug in the front plate

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

NTE5c removing the front plate does break the connection that feeds the extensions, even though they are connected to what is the backplate.

There is a passthrough connection made when you plug in the front plate

Yes, I understand that.
I guess what I�m looking for is a new frontplate that would cover up the exposed extension wiring, and even better, have a phone socket on it that just connected to the extension wiring and not the incoming copper phone line.

Think what you are after is a NGA FVA VOICE PLATE though cannot find a picture

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bz5vlj70n92z9m5/AACWDXMoM...

the first two pictures show it end on, and the last picture shows the back

*except* that's the old style, there is now a version for the NTE5c

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

*except* that's the old style, there is now a version for the NTE5c

Yes, that�s the FVA interstitial I�ve seen pictures elsewhere, but haven�t seen one for NTE5c.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Think what you are after is a NGA FVA VOICE PLATE though cannot find a picture

So should I expect OR to fit one of these when they install the ONT, or will I need to source one of these in the future? Just want to make sure I ask the OR engineers for the right thing to future-proof for VOIP.

So unless you have specifically ordered the FVA service at the same time as the FTTP, it seems very unlikely they will, especially since, as mentioned, it�ll be no 5 minute job to run from ONTE to the back of the property ....

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Think what you are after is a NGA FVA VOICE PLATE though cannot find a picture

Yes, that's exactly what I will need. It's a new design for the NTE5c - VRI Isolation Plate

This isolates the "Extension Sockets" socket from the incoming copper phone line.

So I guess either Openreach will fit one when they install FTTP, or any future VOIP service provider will need to fit one. I'll ask when they do the install.

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Sep-19 13:13:23)

Are you sure you've made that picture publicly viewable?

Edit - it is now, so I don't know why I couldn't see it before.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 26-Sep-19 13:38:23)

It is not a normal part of the FTTP installs, would only be supplied if a FVA service was ordered, or the retailer has specified this as part an install for their own voice over broadband service.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is not a normal part of the FTTP installs, would only be supplied if a FVA service was ordered, or the retailer has specified this as part an install for their own voice over broadband service.

That�s what I suspected. I�m really just trying to future-proof.

Surely there�s a real danger of �amateurs� like me sometime in the future connecting a VOIP ATA to their internal telephone wiring and inadvertently injecting that analog phone signal back down the external copper lines to the exchange.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is not a normal part of the FTTP installs, would only be supplied if a FVA service was ordered, or the retailer has specified this as part an install for their own voice over broadband service.

Agreed, its also depends on if the FVA Service is already active and ready to switch over when the install is going on.

Our FTTP install was for everything to be moved over to fibre, sadly the FVA Service wasn't active and ready at the time of the install so the couldn't do that part, they did make the cable from the TEL1 port on the ONT to where our Master Socket was and also tacked it down.

They did ask if I wanted a new NTE5C Master Socket I told them nah stay with the current NTE5A due to it was only a couple of weeks old and changing it makes no difference apart from it sticks out a bit more and the face plates are easily knocked off.

I was told by the engineer and confirmed by BT where I was coming off the Copper line completely (had to pay the cease of line fee) due to its not even fit for a phone line, that when the FVA Service becomes active to just carefully remove and bring back the copper line to the BT-80 Junction box and just connect up the phone line from the ONT to the NTE5A Master Socket.

Job done.

Paul

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is not a normal part of the FTTP installs, would only be supplied if a FVA service was ordered, or the retailer has specified this as part an install for their own voice over broadband service.

That�s what I suspected. I�m really just trying to future-proof.

Surely there�s a real danger of �amateurs� like me sometime in the future connecting a VOIP ATA to their internal telephone wiring and inadvertently injecting that analog phone signal back down the external copper lines to the exchange.

I have already told BT when they move over to VoIP that I would prefer to have a VoIP Phone or a device (which phone plugs into) that plugs into the Ethernet Port on our LAN, or be allowed to use a 3rd party router that also support VoIP and we plug our current phone into.

BT told me at this point of time they haven't decided on how they would provide VoIP, but those two along with a new one of their hubs could all be an option, but we would have to wait to see what options they end up providing.

Paul

There is, just as the myriad of mains wiring stories.

Shift of responsibility is much more to the retailer now.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I was told by the engineer and confirmed by BT where I was coming off the Copper line completely (had to pay the cease of line fee) due to its not even fit for a phone line, that when the FVA Service becomes active to just carefully remove and bring back the copper line to the BT-80 Junction box and just connect up the phone line from the ONT to the NTE5A Master Socket.

Where would I find the �BT-80 junction box�? And is it okay for the customer to remove these sorts of connection?

You might not have a BT80 or it�s equivalent in your set up.

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I was told by the engineer and confirmed by BT where I was coming off the Copper line completely (had to pay the cease of line fee) due to its not even fit for a phone line, that when the FVA Service becomes active to just carefully remove and bring back the copper line to the BT-80 Junction box and just connect up the phone line from the ONT to the NTE5A Master Socket.

Where would I find the �BT-80 junction box�? And is it okay for the customer to remove these sorts of connection?

No, you are not allowed to touch anything up to the master socket.
Also any damages that you cause by touching that part or by your internal wiring may / will result in you being charged.

I was allowed to do so due to our copper line was soon to be disconnected at the exchange, and also other reasons.
It was just a 5 minute job if that.

But if you was still wondering what the >> BT80-B << looks like.

There are places that you can buy them from, I have always got mine free when I have needed them

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Thu 26-Sep-19 20:18:55)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

You might not have a BT80 or it�s equivalent in your set up.

Yeah when we moved in here many years ago all we had was that brownish box with that old Jack plug in it that the old phone connected to.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

No, you are not allowed to touch anything up to the master socket.

Yes, that's what I thought, so was surprised when you said that's what you did. My copper line comes in underground straight into the master socket via the ducting that's blocked.

Anyway, I think I've found a solution, in lieu of being able to get hold of a VRI Isolation front plate. Unless anyone knows where I can buy a NTE5C VRI Isolation front plate?

Insulation tape across the top connectors of the plug on the front-plate that plugs into the test socket on the back plate. That isolates the main incoming copper line from the front phone socket and extension sockets, but still keeps the main phone socket connected to the extension sockets.

Now I will be able to take the phone line from a VOIP ATA into the extension socket at the front of the house (next to the OR ONT), and still have an POTS phone plugged into the main socket at the back of the house that can use the VOIP service.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Sep-19 09:17:11)

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

Openreach were out today to pull fibre through from the pavement box to our house. They found that the nice new ducting that our copper phone line runs in is totally blocked, depite only being 2 years old!! They tried rodding, it, etc. but without any success. The ducting runs to the back of the house where the master socket is.

So instead they're going to run a new duct to the front of our house, which means it will be nowhere near the existing master socket.

A quick followup question. Our FTTP service is due to go live tomorrow, but Openreach still haven't been out to dig up the pavement, etc. to put the new duct in. So what happens tomorrow when BT turn up to install FTTP? If they can't, does my ADSL and landline service remain with my current provider (Sky), or is there a risk that I might end up with only a landline (from BT) and no internet?

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

A quick followup question. Our FTTP service is due to go live tomorrow, but Openreach still haven't been out to dig up the pavement, etc. to put the new duct in. So what happens tomorrow when BT turn up to install FTTP? If they can't, does my ADSL and landline service remain with my current provider (Sky), or is there a risk that I might end up with only a landline (from BT) and no internet?

Everything stays the same.

Even when the FTTP is successfully installed, it should not cause a cease of your ADSL/phone service. FTTP is completely separate, and you'll continue to pay for both.

If you want to cease the old line but keep your phone number, then you can transfer it to a VOIP provider: when the transfer completes, *that* will trigger a cease of both your landline and the linked ADSL service. (There may be penalties if you're still within contract, of course)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Even when the FTTP is successfully installed, it should not cause a cease of your ADSL/phone service. FTTP is completely separate, and you'll continue to pay for both.

So why did I get a letter from my current provider (Sky) saying BT we�re taking over my landline and broadband service? I�m even more confused now.

That would be because you ordered a package that includes both phone and an FTTP service.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

That would be because you ordered a package that includes both phone and an FTTP service.

When I ordered from BT I wasn�t given the choice. I had to have their phone service with their FTTP service. Anyway, BT have now postponed the transfer from Sky, so hopefully I�ll still have Sky Talk and Broadband tomorrow.

How can I find out from Openreach when they�ll be back to do the work?

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

How can I find out from Openreach when they�ll be back to do the work?

Have you tried sending them a Twitter DM to @OpenreachHelp (Not a Public Tweet) and ask them what is happening, be polite, they will require your Address and possibly landline phone number, but I have had results from them using just the full address.

Paul

BT Consumer only currently sells phone with FTTP packages and live to remain that way.

Others do data only FTTP options

So, 4 visits later we now have a new duct, and fibre terminated at a small ONT. Engineer said the job doesn't allow him to activate the ONT, so does this normally get done remotely or does it involve another engineer visit. We do have an engineer scheduled for next Monday, but that was to fit the fibre and ONT which was done today.

Currently the PON light is just flashing. Also surprised that OR leave several loops of fibre dangling from the ONT, looks very vulnerable to damage!!

ONT

Edited by deleted (Wed 23-Oct-19 19:17:28)

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

Also surprised that OR leave several loops of fibre dangling from the ONT, looks very vulnerable to damage!!

ONT

Mine is the same, I was told it was so that they could move the ONT easily at a later date if I needed, but it does look a bit messy.

Interestingly the engineer that did mine said that was what they were meant to do but he thinks it looks ugly and risks cable damage.

What he did for mine was install an NTE5C underneath the ONT. It isn't connected to anything but it allowed him somewhere to roll up the fibre out of site (inside the wall box). Obviously it could just have a blanking plate on the front but I'm guessing engineers have easier access to NTE faceplates than the do to blanking plates.

Anyway, it means I have a small wall box underneath the route and the wires are both hidden and protected inside of it.

why didnt the engineer use the enclosure for the ONT and the battery backup, then as there is a tendency to not fit the battery back up the space could be used to hide the loops of cable

In reply to a post by threelegs:

why didnt the engineer use the enclosure for the ONT and the battery backup, then as there is a tendency to not fit the battery back up the space could be used to hide the loops of cable

I was told they don't use those enclosures anymore. There's only the 1-port ONT option which is much smaller.

That's correct. There is no BBU - he complained because that was where they used to leave the spare wire but the new ONTs don't have that as an option (the ONT is pretty small compared to the one my brother had installed a few years back that also had the BBU, it's pretty discrete especially as it is on the wall behind the TV).

Wow, what a tatty install.

The previous incarnation had the ONT, BBU and all associated leads and fibre etc housed in neat, if somewhat large box.

Somebody moaned, maybe even the bean counters trying to save costs, and now you get what the poster shows.

It�s the same ONT as was in the previous enclosure......

I still prefer the old four port ONT�s, you could make them neat if you were of a mind too.

You�re right though, TV�s can hide a multitude of sins.

The engineer made a beautiful job of mine. Very impressed - and he refused the biscuits (might have just offered the wrong ones). My wife didn't even notice the box on the wall behind the TV.

Yep, it is do-able ....

How tight can the fibre cable be rolled up? ian72 said his excess cable is hidden in an NTE5 back box the engineer fitted

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Open-Reach-Huawei-Echolif...

ont and enclosure on e-bay if anyone wants to tidy there install(just use the enclosure to house the existing ONT and cabling)

In reply to a post by dect:

How tight can the fibre cable be rolled up? ian72 said his excess cable is hidden in an NTE5 back box the engineer fitted

i think the bend radius is about 10 times the thickness of the fibre. so 5/6mm cable could be rolled up into a standard single elec box or a double would be better. could the ONT be moved left and down so that a single elec box mouted over the hole in the wall hid the cable

Edited by threelegs (Thu 24-Oct-19 16:27:16)

In reply to a post by threelegs:

i think the bend radius is about 10 times the thickness of the fibre. so 5/6mm cable could be rolled up into a standard single elec box or a double would be better

Thanks for that

In reply to a post by threelegs:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Open-Reach-Huawei-Echolif...

ont and enclosure on e-bay if anyone wants to tidy there install(just use the enclosure to house the existing ONT and cabling)

The enclosure does make it look more tidy but you have to weigh that up against the increase in size of the overall unit, I really like what the engineer did for ian72 as it seems to achieve both.

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Oct-19 16:28:24)

If anyone would like an empty enclosure, I have one here that deserves a new home.

I'll try and remember to take a photo or 2 over the weekend in case anyone wants to see the result,

I'm not too concerned about our install, as it's hidden down the side of my desk so out of harms way, but I did think it could be very vulnerable to damage in a hallway, etc. I would have thought Openreach would have a "standard" that installers are meant to work to, rather than leaving it up to the engineer to decide to use a NTE5 back box to safeguard the fibre.

Anyway, just checked outside, and surprised that the ducting is open to the elements. Is this normal? What's to stop gravel, water, etc. getting into the ducting. Should there be some sort of end-cap? I asked the engineer, and he said they only fitted a cover duct to the wall for copper, not fibre.

Image1
Image2

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Oct-19 17:06:34)

Yes, since there�s no capping covering the top of the duct, there ought to be a purpose made foam bung fitted ....

If you see an Openreach engineer in you travels, stop and politely ask if they have one you could take and fit yourself.

I don�t think I�ve ever known the full correct name they are called by, but �foam bung� should make you understood.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes, since there�s no capping covering the top of the duct, there ought to be a purpose made foam bung fitted ....

If you see an Openreach engineer in you travels, stop and politely ask if they have one you could take and fit yourself.

I don�t think I�ve ever known the full correct name they are called by, but �foam bung� should make you understood.

If I'm thinking of the same thing as you its official name is 'Plugs Duct 1A' and its a foam plug for the end of 54mm ducting.

A foam bung makes sense. I�ll ask the engineer on Monday when he comes to enable the ONT. Although why he can�t do that remotely is a mystery to me.

So a final update. Engineer stuffed some white foam down the duct, looks messy but should stop stuff getting into the duct.

Then today Openreach are back, with a leaflet telling the whole estate that over the next few weeks they're doing non-intrusive tests of the service ducts. Probably because of the 3 neighbours that have ordered FTTP, all of them have had blocked ducts! Looks like putting copper lines in instead of fibre was a false economy by Openreach, given the estate is only 3 years old.

LETTER

Anyway, my 80/20 service is now active and I'm getting around 74 Mbps download. Although BT haven't actually switched my voice line from Sky yet, which is strange. I thought it was impossible to have FTTP from one provider (BT) and voice from another (SKY)?

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Oct-19 11:49:09)

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

Looks like putting copper lines in instead of fibre was a false economy by Openreach, given the estate is only 3 years old.

The copper was probbaly pulled in by the developer of the estate. Then connected up by Openreach.

Only three years old ?

Then it wasn�t Openreach�s decision, it was what the developer requested ...

It will have been the developers groundworkers who naffed the ducts too.

�����-

Not two separate suppliers via one fibre ... but you have FTTP from BT, and Sky via the copper landline ....

On the estate my new-build is on it was Openreach that pulled all the copper because they had to wait for them to finish before they could build the road surface. Stupid block paving.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

Looks like putting copper lines in instead of fibre was a false economy by Openreach, given the estate is only 3 years old.

The copper was probbaly pulled in by the developer of the estate. Then connected up by Openreach.

Must say I've never seen that before. Definitely not how my new build was done.

Usually the developer tells OpenReach what they want (Fibre or copper).
They install the ducting to OpenReach specifications.
OpenReach come and put the fibre/copper in themselves.

Slippery slope having the developer installing the actual cabling.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Then it wasn�t Openreach�s decision, it was what the developer requested ..

AFAIK, Openreach couldn�t provide fibre at the time of the original quote for our phase of development, so we got copper Exchange Only lines, so not even a cabinet. Later phases were all given FTTP only. I suspect that the decision to give us EO lines was always predicated on a future fibre upgrade.

Openreach engineer I spoke to said the developer would have laid the ducts, and OR pulled the copper lines. Although why OR then found an 18� gap in the ducting with copper lines in bare earth is a mystery!!

Surely it would be a false economy for Openreach to rely on A developer�s subcontractors to put the cables in.

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Oct-19 14:18:39)

That's perhaps what the developer told you but OpenReach have offered free FTTP for developers for quite a while now.

Free on developments over 250 homes since early (march?) 2016.
Reduced to 100 homes in May 2016.
Reduced to 30 homes sometime later in 2016.

Prior to these dates the developer could contribute and pay for FTTP instead of copper, and some did just that.
Most didn't.
It wasn't a priority as people were still buying their new homes for hundreds of thousands with access to only ADSL broadband.

AFAIK, Openreach couldn�t provide fibre at the time of the original quote for our phase of development, so we got copper Exchange Only lines,

I've never seen a quote say "couldn't provide fibre".

I suspect that the decision to give us EO lines was always predicated on a future fibre upgrade

Not OpenReach's decision.

Your developer most likely didn't want to pay or didn't engage with OpenReach at all on FTTP and that means copper is installed as standard.

OpenReach deliver what the developer orders.

There's probably a dozen new build estates being built in stages within 5 miles of me.
Every single 1 has copper in the earliest deployments, with most of the later phases being FTTP.

In a couple of these developments the developer has paid OpenReach to retro fit FTTP for the early phases who had copper and now they have both.

Developers have had the option to pay for FTTC cabinets for years also.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Not OpenReach's decision.

Yes it was. To quote the Senior strategic relationship manager at Openreach:
"I can confirm that due to the size and timing of the registration of the development, it complied with policy at the time of copper deployment. Our new standard is for Fibre to the Premises to be installed for developments >30 homes for registrations post November 2016 (and >100 homes from February 2016). The network policy at the time allowed for connection in either Exchange Only (EO) configuration or via a street cabinet."

The developer was not happy about this either. To quote their Commercial Director:
"Clearly you have done a lot of research in to this but for the avoidance of doubt, please note at the time this phase was developed we were not presented with an option to provide superfast broadband � you are aware FTTP has been introduced on later phases and it is our policy to install on new developments if it is available."

Note that the 30 house limit is for each phase of development, not the whole development.

Anyway, I'm glad that it's Openreach that are now having to pay out to put this situation right. They tried to get us residents to pay last year, but we resisted. Then they expected the Government to pay. And 3 years later, we're finally getting FTTP, funded by Openreach - once Openreach unblock all the ducts of course!!

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Oct-19 17:16:29)

You'll never find out for sure if it was the provider or the developer who was to blame for you getting copper rather than fibre (both will blame each other). The main thing is full fibre is on its way

I can confirm that due to the size and timing of the registration of the development, it complied with policy at the time of copper deployment.

Basically what I said above.

That reads as "it wasn't free at the time and it wasn't asked for so it wasn't installed".

Copper is still standard.

Even today on a new build of 1000 homes OpenReach will install copper if the developer doesn't engage early enough and ask for FTTP.

The OpenReach rep can't really reply saying it's all the developers fault. OpenReach want to keep a good relationship with developers and actively encourage them to take FTTP.

There's nothing in the reply from either the OpenReach rep or the developer that says FTTP couldn't be installed, simply that it wasn't policy at the time, which is correct when discussing free FTTP.

The developer will have had the option to contribute to FTTP or to fund an FTTC cabinet.
The developer will have had the option of inviting other operators to install their network on the development.
They choose not to.

Don't see how that's OpenReach's fault. It's the developers.

It's also the fault of the home buyer though. Spending a 5, 6 or 7 figure sum on a property without checking what broadband is available.

I'm in a development built in 2012 that only had copper when built.
FTTC has since come along and OpenReach were recently rodding our ducts for FTTP.
They aren't putting any situation right.

Every property on my development gets SuperFast speeds already.
They are simply installing FTTP in easy to reach areas.
Brand new, fully ducted estates with swept T's are usually relatively cheap to install FTTP to.

It's bad enough when they are let loose on the internal phone wiring.

I have a master socket and extension socket in the lounge and an extension socket in the bedroom. The extension socket in the lounge is wired to the master socket OK but the extension in the bedroom is wired somewhere between the BT66 outside and the master socket.