FTTP ONT install location

Hi,
Thinking ahead here, but would like the Fibre installed to a different location to where the existing master socket is.
Currently comes in to the house via a duct and then through a small hole next to the front door and along the skirtingboard and over a door and down.
So don�t want the fibre to take the same path.
I�d like it to be installed in the utility room, but to get there from where the fibre would come in, it would either need to be tacked across the front of the house (not ideal), or go in to a loft space and down in to the room.
Now wondering if I do some sort of rope/conduit and put it in place ahead of time would that be acceptable? If so what sort of conduit should be used, size / material etc.
Also does the fibre that comes from the ducting go all the way to the ONT or is there another device installed first? And is that inside or outside the house?
Thanks!

Which broadband operator? What they do will vary depending on which telco

Haven�t got that far yet to choose a provider. Presumed openreach do the install of the ONT device?

(I guess the question was just to check whether it was Cityfibre/Vodafone etc.)

If it's Openreach FTTP, then I found the installer to be accommodating: they took the fibre through the loft to the cupboard under the stairs, where I have my comms equipment. I had already got a duct from attic to the cupboard for CAT5 cables, and they used that. You *might* find they say they are not authorised or insured to go through your loft void though - in which case, I expect it would have to go around the outside as you say.

It's a black cable which externally looks similar to TV coax. It comes in one piece, pre-connectorised at one end for the CBT at the external chamber or pole. At the other end they cut it to length, cut back some of the outer to leave a thin white core, and splice a connector onto it.

If its the Openreach network we are talking about, there are multiple FTTP networks so confirming its Openreach rather than CityFibre or IFNL or Hyperoptic or Gigaclear or B4RN or Truespeed etc etc will make a potential difference to the answers

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If its the Openreach network we are talking about, there are multiple FTTP networks so confirming its Openreach rather than CityFibre or IFNL or Hyperoptic or Gigaclear or B4RN or Truespeed etc etc will make a potential difference to the answers

Ah, makes sense now thanks for clarifying.

If its Openreach blown fibre (becoming less common), then normally you will have a Customer Splice Point (CSP) installed outside your home. From there Openreach run an 'ezy-bend' cable to the ONT, the ONT can be installed anywhere in the home provided the cabling distance doesn't exceed 30m from the CSP. The ONT doesn't have to be anywhere near your master socket - mine is though.

This is the CSP outside my home

https://postimg.cc/rdBPyLCD
https://postimg.cc/crDZxrK6
https://postimg.cc/2VjrN4SP
https://postimg.cc/bd9p56px
https://postimg.cc/YL3nxLcF
https://postimg.cc/rRcZWCHc
https://postimg.cc/CdgwmyTM

From the CSP to the ONT:

https://postimg.cc/2VjGd50Q
https://postimg.cc/YvhxVsKj

In reply to a post by candlerb:

(I guess the question was just to check whether it was Cityfibre/Vodafone etc.)

If it's Openreach FTTP, then I found the installer to be accommodating: they took the fibre through the loft to the cupboard under the stairs, where I have my comms equipment. I had already got a duct from attic to the cupboard for CAT5 cables, and they used that. You *might* find they say they are not authorised or insured to go through your loft void though - in which case, I expect it would have to go around the outside as you say.

It's a black cable which externally looks similar to TV coax. It comes in one piece, pre-connectorised at one end for the CBT at the external chamber or pole. At the other end they cut it to length, cut back some of the outer to leave a thin white core, and splice a connector onto it.

It�s not an accessible loft space, it�s the front of the house as roof slopes down to first floor, so it�s a case of fishing a cable / conduit through. Was just wondering if they�d be okay to pull the fiber through if I go to the effort of doing that.
I already have a cat6 cable going to my front door Poe camera, but that runs under the roof to the utility/comms room.
I�ll have a think if there�s any other location it could go, I have run cat6 to most parts of the house already.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

If its Openreach blown fibre (becoming less common), then normally you will have a Customer Splice Point (CSP) installed outside your home. From there Openreach run an 'ezy-bend' cable to the ONT, the ONT can be installed anywhere in the home provided the cabling distance doesn't exceed 30m from the CSP. The ONT doesn't have to be anywhere near your master socket - mine is though.

This is the CSP outside my home

https://postimg.cc/rdBPyLCD
https://postimg.cc/crDZxrK6
https://postimg.cc/2VjrN4SP
https://postimg.cc/bd9p56px
https://postimg.cc/YL3nxLcF
https://postimg.cc/rRcZWCHc
https://postimg.cc/CdgwmyTM

From the CSP to the ONT:

https://postimg.cc/2VjGd50Q
https://postimg.cc/YvhxVsKj

Thanks most helpful. I presume the white cable is only rated for inside the home?

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jan-20 19:54:42)

I believe its suitable for outdoor use as well. If you look at the second photo, there's an inch or so of white cable exposed to the elements. The engineer told me its weatherproof.

If you install a conduit with a pull-string, I'm sure they would be very happy to use it. Try to keep bend radius reasonably large, i.e. no abrupt 90 degree turns like a water pipe connector.

It certainly makes sense to put your ONT+router+switch where the majority of your CAT6 cables end up.

If you're happy to sacrifice it, they may be able to use your existing CAT6 as a pull cable, and pull another one through at the same time.

Nope, the eezee bend is for both interior and exterior.

It�s not just blown fibre that gets a CSP now. The connectorised kits are now being brought into a new style CSP. And a new �inside out� kit is run from the ONT to the CSP.
Running the connectorised directly to the ONT was proving too time consuming, and the field fit connectors seemed prone to failing.

I�ve heard that there is now a ten metre limit from point of entry to ONT.

Best bet for you, would be to run CAT5 from somewhere near where the fibre will come in (there must be power nearby) to where you want the router to go.
This way you can run it how and where you want. Sorted.

It's a black cable which externally looks similar to TV coax. It comes in one piece, pre-connectorised at one end for the CBT at the external chamber or pole. At the other end they cut it to length, cut back some of the outer to leave a thin white core, and splice a connector onto it.

Not any more .... https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4633823-re...
(and the connector on the end was never �spliced onto it)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The connectorised kits are now being brought into a new style CSP.

Are the new CSP's in day to day circulation now and has the old field kit connectors method been totally withdrawn?

Edit: Also any idea what the dual connectorised cable on page 13 of the latest Openreach Fibre Handbook (V9.1) is all about as it has a SC-APC connector on one end and a strange connector on the other, previously it had a SC-APC connector on one end and nothing on the other end.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jan-20 22:43:19)

Yes, to every day use of the new CSP�s, but the older ones in stock are still being used up.
I believe the �inside out� kits are now favoured over the field fit stuff (yaay)

.... and not seen the handbook you mention. Do you have a link ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

.... and not seen the handbook you mention. Do you have a link ?

The cable I'm confused about is an outside to inside kit with a SC-APC connector on one end (that you would expect for the ONT) but a different connector the other end (CSP end) but I would expect that end to be spliced not connectorised. It also has the issue that it only comes in a few fixed lengths so what to you do with the excess cable in between. I was looking for pictures/dimensions of the new CSP when I came across this cable.

Openreach Fibre Handbook V9.1

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Jan-20 10:00:33)

White cable page 13 connects to ONT and fibre manifold somewhere inside a building, excess left coiled up somewhere out of sight.

Is the big black connector the bit you are talking about.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I�ve heard that there is now a ten metre limit from point of entry to ONT.

What would be the reason for reducing the internal cabling limit from 30m to 10m? Less work for the Openreach bods?

I guess, also stripping many metres off the connectorised stuff was a HUGE pain.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Is the big black connector the bit you are talking about.

It was, I've only ever seen those cables with a SC-APC connector on one end and nothing on the other. That black connector looked like it should be connected to a CBT

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I guess, also stripping many metres off the connectorised stuff was a HUGE pain.

So how was that done?

Since I first heard of that type of fibre cable and stripping the outer layer off. I wondered whether it was worth designing a tool for that job but decided that surely BT must already be using something to make the job quick and easy.

Don't have name for connector to hand, but definitely plugging directly into the manifold, so in this case the white outer tells us its for a manifold that is indoors, i.e. no black UV proof

Believe there was a tool that cut to the right depth, rather than old fashioned run a Stanley knife around cable. How tough to pull the outer off I don't know. Given a quiet day might see how hard it is to take a 1 metre segment off the bit I have hanging around.

Don�t bother ... it�s a huge PITA.

You use a �butterfly stripper� to split the end. Then just peel back the black outer coating ... except it doesn�t very often go that easily ... digging the white inner out to start with ... then remembering that any sharp kink might break its precious cargo.... and if it�s the overhead variety, then there�s the steel strengtheners on either side, these can aid stripping, but very often coil tightly round everything else. I�m hoping you can sense I�m not a fan.

One metre will be fairly simple, but remember it takes approx 5 just to go round a door frame.

The new inside out kits have pull cords at the SC end, splitting the black cleanly away.

Me I would just let Openreach install it by the front door, then when they have gone sneakily install a length of simplex APC SC-SC cable to where I wanted it using whatever route I fancied and used a APC SC-SC simplex coupler to join the two lengths together at the front door.

It will cost more for the shipping than the parts, for example at fs.com a 30m length with a 10mm bend radius will cost £5.40 and the coupler is 44p. You can of course get it made up with whatever length you choose.

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/41922.html

https://www.fs.com/uk/products/48491.html

however shipping will be £9.24 inc VAT.

I am sure now lots of people will wibble about not doing it etc. as it's technically not allowed. However as long as you are prepared to move the ONT back to where Openreach had it in the event of an issue don't frett, it's no different than having to test at the NTE5 master socket with a copper setup. Just don't loose the dust caps so you can stop the ends getting contaminated if you need to disconnect. stuff.

A lot of people seem to think that fibre optic cable is some sort of magic snowflake that requires a certified wizard to do anything with or it will break. In my experience (15+ years now working with it in data centres) while more delicate than copper it's not remotely fragile, especially the newer tight bend radius stuff like linked above.

If all new installations now need a CSP then that must mean all installation engineers now need a splicer, so the attempt to de-skill the engineers has failed and the cost for lots more splicers must be considerable.

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Jan-20 17:37:59)

so here is what i'm talking about :
https://postimg.cc/gXxPnn7p

the far left by the gate is where i'd need it installed.
to the right is the front door where it currently comes in for copper.

now the bends it would need to take if it was to be tacked to the front of the house are 90degrees so can that cable bend like that?

thanks

Zarjaz is the best person to answer that

In reply to a post by bomber456:

so here is what i'm talking about :
https://postimg.cc/gXxPnn7p

the far left by the gate is where i'd need it installed.
to the right is the front door where it currently comes in for copper.

now the bends it would need to take if it was to be tacked to the front of the house are 90degrees so can that cable bend like that?

thanks

easiest way to get cables round a sharp brick corner like that is to dig out a bit of mortar on the outer corner to lessen/increase?? the radius ie make it gentler and then place the cable in the nice gently curved groove

Yep, I�d reckon so.

It�s not ideal, but it works.

In reply to a post by bomber456:

so here is what i'm talking about :
https://postimg.cc/gXxPnn7p

the far left by the gate is where i'd need it installed.
to the right is the front door where it currently comes in for copper.

now the bends it would need to take if it was to be tacked to the front of the house are 90degrees so can that cable bend like that?

thanks

The fibre cabling bends at 90 degrees at 4 locations around the door frame in my home and its never affected my fibre service, so I don't see why the same cabling can't go at 90 degrees on an external wall.

https://postimg.cc/nX9Z1yMK
https://postimg.cc/Lqzpcjtn

Great thanks.

Now to go back to waiting. Openreach still pulling fibre, not sure how long after all that bit is complete before I can place an order.

Rule of thumb is bend radius of about the size of a £2 coin.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

The fibre cabling bends at 90 degrees at 4 locations around the door frame in my home and its never affected my fibre service, so I don't see why the same cabling can't go at 90 degrees on an external wall.

Gigaclear supply "cable lead-in units" specifically for making it easier to do just that.