Moving from FTTPoD to FTTP

I've had a search but couldn't find any information, i'm coming to the end of my 12 month contract with cerberus and will be looking to switch to a cheaper native line.

Does the switch work in a normal way or is there something else that needs to happen?

Cheers!

Yes, a normal switch. It is technically bog-standard FTTP. Other people on the same DP could order that as soon as your FTTPoD was installed. Have you asked Cerberus what their standard FTTP prices are?

I can�t see them on their website but it does say:-

After the standard 12 month contract, FTTP on Demand can be re-graded to a regular Cerberus FTTP service. These services typically have lower pricing and a wider range of bandwidth options than the on Demand variant of FTTP.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 04-Feb-20 12:05:57)

Cerberus standard FTTP prices are at https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...

Unfortunately, last I heard, there is no "working line takeover" process for FTTP. (EDIT: Someone please correct me if this is wrong, but Google doesn't seem to show any news on this topic)

If you have a workable backup connection (e.g. FTTC or 4G) that will keep you going for a few weeks then you could just cease the old service and order new. There are some companies that will sell you FTTC on 1-month contract.

Otherwise, if you don't want to lose service: place the new order now with the new ISP, and keep the old service running. Openreach will most likely install a second ONT in your property (pulling a second fibre in), or possibly swap your ONT for a four-port one. When the new service is live, then cancel the old one. You will end up paying for service during the overlap, and of course you have the hassle of having another engineer visit, more drilling etc - unless you already have an older installation with 4-port ONT and/or a 4-strand fibre from external CSP.

Edited by candlerb (Tue 04-Feb-20 12:31:47)

I performed a line transfer from BT to Zen a couple of years ago and I only have a single port ONT:

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4601009-fttp...

Next to no downtime as after engineer updated ONT details was a quick swap, but annoyingly I had 2x services live which I was being charged for even though I only have a single port.

I am currently looking at swapping back to BT as I saw last week my existing 160/30 connection for £39.99 (less £160 cashback and £100 gift card), but unfortunately their system wont let me complete online (assuming because I already have an active FTTP connection).

I may wait to see what March brings with the new tariffs though.

I regraded my FTTPoD to a FTTP with Cerberus. It was straightforward however I did have an IP address change after about a Month that I wasn't expecting

In reply to a post by lincsat:

I regraded my FTTPoD to a FTTP with Cerberus. It was straightforward however I did have an IP address change after about a Month that I wasn't expecting

I will be in a similar position at the end of March - I'm waiting to see if Cerberus change their prices or introduce new tiers for March 23rd. Did they offer you any sort of discount on the listed prices? Did you have to pay any activation fee? As I don't need a router I wonder if they would offer a small discount.

Their FTTPoD product doesn't come with a static IP address so it probably changed after you regraded to FTTP and your router next restarted the PPPoE connection.

Edited by brookheather (Tue 04-Feb-20 14:44:06)

In reply to a post by brookheather:

I will be in a similar position at the end of March - I'm waiting to see if Cerberus change their prices or introduce new tiers for March 23rd. Did they offer you any sort of discount on the listed prices? Did you have to pay any activation fee? As I don't need a router I wonder if they would offer a small discount.

Their FTTPoD product doesn't come with a static IP address so it probably changed after you regraded to FTTP and your router next restarted the PPPoE connection.

I'm on Cerberus FTTP on Demand and have a static IP address (IPv4 and 6), I didn't think Cerberus did anything else on their broadband, maybe that changed recently?

It would be a pain if it changes when remaining with them as I need for work to get various firewalls updated to allow access, and an incentive to stay would be not having to sort out a new IP address from another ISP.

I think the IP address changing was a mistake and a help ticket to them would have put it back. When I first went live the IP address handed to me was different to that provided on my documentation (that I had already given to various people for firewall access). I opened a case and within minutes they had changed it to what it should have been.

Still I've got 10 months before I need to worry about it.

Edited by E300 (Tue 04-Feb-20 15:31:18)

In reply to a post by E300:

I'm on Cerberus FTTP on Demand and have a static IP address (IPv4 and 6), I didn't think Cerberus did anything else on their broadband, maybe that changed recently?

On FTTPoD the IPv6 subnet is static but the IPv4 address is sticky not static - mine has changed a couple of times in 10 months when rebooting my router a few times. Generally it will reconnect with the same IPv4 address but I think if you leave it turned off for a while it will reconnect on a different address. You can check whether you have a static IPv4 address assigned on your control panel:

https://nc2.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/index.php?f=view_...

Edited by brookheather (Tue 04-Feb-20 16:07:47)

You can check whether you have a static IPv4 address assigned on your control panel:

Thanks for the info. I've checked and it shows in the control panel both my 'static' IPv4 address and the IPv6 address. If I click on Settings it shows # Static IPs: 1, if I click on Order IPs I get options to upgrade to 4 static IPs or 6 static IPs, no 1 static option. It doesn't explicitly say anywhere that my IPv4 or v6 is static, just shows what they are, so I'm not 100% sure now but given I don't have an upgrade option for 1 static IP and it mentions 1 static IP under settings, it appears to be, going to be a pain if it changes!

Oh just seen on my Inventory Report it says: Cerberus FTTP on Demand - Uncapped, 1 IP, 12 month contract. So I think it must be static then.

Edited by E300 (Tue 04-Feb-20 16:32:23)

In reply to a post by brookheather:

In reply to a post by lincsat:

I regraded my FTTPoD to a FTTP with Cerberus. It was straightforward however I did have an IP address change after about a Month that I wasn't expecting

I will be in a similar position at the end of March - I'm waiting to see if Cerberus change their prices or introduce new tiers for March 23rd. Did they offer you any sort of discount on the listed prices? Did you have to pay any activation fee? As I don't need a router I wonder if they would offer a small discount.

Their FTTPoD product doesn't come with a static IP address so it probably changed after you regraded to FTTP and your router next restarted the PPPoE connection.

There was no activation fee and the only discount was the "Transition discount" advertised on their site but it ends in March.

I got a new user/pass for the PPPoE connection as well, the IP change was likely tied to that.

As an aside, 2 Months after the regrade, I got a visit from OR with a work order to install a new FTTP splitter on the pole for my address. They didn't do anything when they found I already had a FTTP connection

In reply to a post by E300:

Oh just seen on my Inventory Report it says: Cerberus FTTP on Demand - Uncapped, 1 IP, 12 month contract. So I think it must be static then.

OK so you do have a static IPv4 address - maybe they changed the configuration sometime after my installation - mine states: Cerberus FTTP on Demand - Up to 300Mbps Downstream

ah brookheather i remember us completing around the same time. I'd like to stay with Cerberus ideally but only if they can reasonably compete with BT prices. I believe they are around £30 more a month (cerberus).

A local Fibre provider have recently rolled out around my area (im sure they are only here because my install created the ducts to the village), so i have a choice of staying with Openreach fibre or moving to their own fibre.. they offer Gbit up & down for the same price as the FTTPoD.

I'll most likely stay with the Openreach line out of principle, no way am i risking loosing my slot on the line (the fibre line that terminates near my house only supports 4 connections!)

Same here. Some point within the next month or two I believe my FTTPoD contract is coming to the end of its minimum term. I'm hoping by then there's some sign of the new FTTP tiers that Openreach are releasing next month, as well as being reasonably priced. I don't expect super cheap pricing, but the current highest two tiers are way overpriced in my opinion.

Have any of you decided what you're going to do?

I've seen the wholesale prices for the higher openreach tiers, upload is still poor! 500/75.. 500/100 would of been better.

My contract ends this month, but the prices aren't released till March 25th. Going to have to make a quick decision!

Why do you have to make a quick decision? Surely your service continues on a monthly contract at the end of the minimum term you signed up to?

In reply to a post by rman:

My contract ends this month, but the prices aren't released till March 25th. Going to have to make a quick decision!

Will Cerberus let you go onto monthly rolling? Although you don't want to be paying £100+VAT for 330/30 any longer than necessary, maybe one month of this is OK.

The issue really is if Cerberus buy through BT Wholesale (BT Enterprise), which I think they do. BTW have said they will charge £75+VAT at wholesale for 1000/115, compared to Openreach's price of £31.28 (standard) or £24.28 (special offer to 30/09/2022). This puts all retail ISPs who use BTW at a massive disadvantage.

To get the higher speeds at a sensible price, you'll either need to use a large ISP that has its own backhaul network and deals directly with Openreach, or use an ISP that uses Talktalk Wholesale (assuming they are giving a better price)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Why do you have to make a quick decision? Surely your service continues on a monthly contract at the end of the minimum term you signed up to?

No I have a 12 month contract that ends this month - if I don't sign up for a new contract then service is terminated. I've called some other suppliers and basically they can't place a new order until the current one terminates which means a gap of at least a day or two.

I asked Cerberus to move to a new 12 month contract for the 150/30 service but initially I was told they don't downgrade the service but have now agreed that I can move to 150/30 so that is what I will probably do.

Zen did agree to wave the £55 activation charge if I don't need the wireless router which makes their prices quite similar to staying with Cerberus.

I haven't decided yet, but after reading a post here that pretty much says you have to make a quick decision once the contract's minimum term is nearly up then I guess I'll go with 330/50. That's assuming there's no known pricing or a viable ISP who offers 550/75 at the very least not too far north of £100 per month by the time I have to make a decision.

In reply to a post by brookheather:

I asked Cerberus to move to a new 12 month contract for the 150/30 service but initially I was told they don't downgrade the service but have now agreed that I can move to 150/30 so that is what I will probably do.

Jees, no downgrade possible without haggling? That's a bit harsh of them.

Edited by Ixel (Thu 05-Mar-20 12:20:43)

In reply to a post by brookheather:

No I have a 12 month contract that ends this month - if I don't sign up for a new contract then service is terminated.

That's weird. My contract with Cerberus says something different:

5.1. Following Activation, the Service shall continue to be provided and invoiced for a period equal to the Minimum Term and then on an ongoing basis until the Service is terminated or migrated away. If the Customer cancels this Service during the Minimum Term they will be charged for the remainder of the Minimum Term at the point of cancellation.

5.2. Unless otherwise stated in writing, cancellation requires one calendar month�s prior written notice. In the case that the Customer stipulates an earlier date for cancellation, they will still be liable for charges for the Service up to the end of the Notice Period and Minimum Term, whichever is longer.
...
5.5. Termination notification by Cerberus to the Customer will be made in writing to the Customer.

This issue doesn't arise for me until end of August, and I plan to talk to Cerberus a couple of months before to check my options.

So I have gone back again to Cerberus and they are now saying that my service will continue at same speed and price if I don't change to a new contract. So I could stay at 300/30 for £100+vat pm on a rolling 1 month but obviously it makes sense to move to a proper FTTP contract.

Edited by brookheather (Thu 05-Mar-20 14:46:35)

How strange, perhaps it was just a bit of confusion on their end (from whoever you spoke to originally).

I've not had time to look through the contract yet, so assuming the consumer prices actually get released on the 25th we should have time to sign up to whoever we wish to use going forward.

I'm quite happy with 300Mbit download to be honest, but the 75Mbit upload on the 500 package sounds appealing.

anyone made the switch yet, i know i'm not the first to come to the end of the 12 months

I'm waiting for the new packages to show up on Cerberus's website, then decide which to choose.

I'm moving to the 150/30 package for 12 months at £54pm at the end of the month unless some new package appears next week.

Thanks both, i'm also waiting at the moment. I was checking out the prices on BT but having just checked my address using their checker the Fibre options have gone.

With the current working from home i simply can't be without internet at all, so not sure if a switch right now is worth the risk!

Is there a way to check if there are connections available and is there a risk i could lose my line during a switch?

There's no issue of "connections available" on FTTP. You either have a working ONT connection, or you don't. There is no physical repatching of fibres when you change provider, so no question of losing a port somewhere.

If you're on Cerberus FTTPoD, then changing to FTTP Pro (330/50) or FTTP Office (150/30) should be even lower risk, as I would expect it's regrade of existing service rather than a cease and reprovide.

What exactly does the adslchecker say for your property under WBC FTTP, and at the foot of the checker where it should say something about "ONT with active service"?

I was worried that if there was any neighbors waiting for a port i could end up losing it, is that not the case then? Do you know what would happen if i stopped the service and went with an alt net?

Typically a local provider started offering FTTP using their own equipment and lines right after my build was completed, i suspect it was down to the new ducting being in place from my build.

My concern with moving to them was losing the BT FTTP connection. After the year of waiting for the FTTPoD build i didn't want to move out of principle. But check out their packages, it's hard not too! https://www.trooli.com/

ADSL checker says the following:

WBC FTTP: Avaliable
FTTP Install Process: 1 Stage

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Proven Clear.

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

Edited by deleted (Thu 19-Mar-20 10:02:45)

In reply to a post by rman:

I was worried that if there was any neighbors waiting for a port i could end up losing it, is that not the case then?

Only if (a) the CBT doesn't have enough ports to serve your neighbours, (b) your neighbours are an a waiting list for a port. And that would only happen if OR had oversubscribed the CBT, e.g. for a group of 5 properties had installed a 4-port CBT. This shouldn't happen - but you can easily check on the address checker how many neighbours *could* get FTTP from the CBT you paid to be installed.

If you go with Trooli and leave your OR FTTP service, you *should* be able to reconnect later, subject to the above.

Or you can be multi-homed... take a cheap 40/10 or 80/20 FTTP service as a backup (e.g. Aquiss)

WBC FTTP: Available
FTTP Install Process: 1 Stage

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Proven Clear.

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

That all looks fine, so I've no idea why BT Retail wouldn't offer you FTTP service.

I have been advised that there will be a £30 cancellation charge for leaving Cerberus. So the final month notice + the £30!? I dont see that in my contract so i hope it's a mistake...

Currently waiting for confirmation..

I cancelled the service and set an earlier cease date April 6th - so hopefully all goes smoothly with the BT sign up.

Cerberus were supposed to move me today to FTTP Office 150/30 @ £54pm but have just billed me for another 3 months of FTTPoD @ £100pm. My regrade order is still showing as pending possibly due to current BTW issues. For those coming to the end of the 12 month FTTPoD period you may want to reconfirm with Cerberus what they are going to do with your regrade/cancellation orders.

In reply to a post by brookheather:

Cerberus were supposed to move me today to FTTP Office 150/30 @ £54pm but have just billed me for another 3 months of FTTPoD @ £100pm. My regrade order is still showing as pending possibly due to current BTW issues. For those coming to the end of the 12 month FTTPoD period you may want to reconfirm with Cerberus what they are going to do with your regrade/cancellation orders.

Thanks for the heads up, im going to give them a call today as i've not really had much luck in getting a response from them via email or much information back about my line cease actioned via the website.

But first, a call to BT to find out if moving the service to them will be ok!

Yeah mine is still pending too. Apparently there are some reports of BT Retail delaying orders because BT Wholesale aren't processing the regrades at the moment. I was told by Cerberus it would be 7 to 10 working days which did astound me at the time, but with the current delay I guess it makes sense. BT Retail were initially processing them within 24-48 hours.

I hope I don't get charged another month of FTTPoD as a result of the regrade being delayed.

Edited by Ixel (Mon 30-Mar-20 11:38:53)

My Cerberus regrade (downgrade) finally went through yesterday after a week delay. BT are no longer showing any FTTP options for my address so looks like it was a safe option to regrade rather than try a cease and reprovide with BT.

In reply to a post by brookheather:

My Cerberus regrade (downgrade) finally went through yesterday after a week delay. BT are no longer showing any FTTP options for my address so looks like it was a safe option to regrade rather than try a cease and reprovide with BT.

Yeah the exact same for my line, no FTTP options showing.

My cerberus line ceased yesterday, and i've literally just this minute got off the phone with BT.

They weren't able to sign me up to the Full Fibre 900 package today, so we went with the safer option of putting me on their 330/50 service and i'll be able to regrade when it available again.

Bit annoying as was really looking forward to that but i guess still getting 20Mbit more on the upload for now. Mine should be live by Friday (normally 24hr). Not bad for 39.99 all in though.

Nice to hear. I called Cerberus as I'm on the advised 10th working day and they told me that my order is pretty much on hold until the end of the contract term (in approximately one week) - this is a BT Wholesale restriction and nothing Cerberus can workaround. Tuesday of next week should be when they can place the regrade order and I've been told that it should go through next day during the early hours of the morning. Apparently another circuit they manage has had a problem though, where it's out of contract on FTTPoD but BT Wholesale's system still refuses to see this and won't allow the regrade order to go through as intended, so hopefully I won't encounter this problem. I've been told I'll be kept informed of the progress.

Sadly a miscommunication it seems, I wasn't advised correctly by sales when regrading that I'd have to wait until the end of the contract's term, making it much longer than 10 working days (which isn't even a thing for a regrade, should just be next day).

As for BT, yeah it's the same for me. Even the dslchecker website doesn't work when checking my address. I guess it's related to the Coronavirus lockdown.

Edited by Ixel (Tue 07-Apr-20 10:46:40)

In reply to a post by Ixel:

Apparently another circuit they manage has had a problem though, where it's out of contract on FTTPoD but BT Wholesale's system still refuses to see this and won't allow the regrade order to go through as intended, so hopefully I won't encounter this problem.

They may be referring to my circuit as my regrade was rejected three times by BTW and they had to chase this with BTW - took a week before it was finally accepted.

In reply to a post by Ixel:

As for BT, yeah it's the same for me. Even the dslchecker website doesn't work when checking my address. I guess it's related to the Coronavirus lockdown.

Probably just a systems bug, and they don't have the right people around to fix it.

FWIW, dslchecker still shows WBC FTTP for my property using the number checker (as I also have a copper line for PSTN+FTTC). The address checker is completely down though.

Cerberus have put a request in to have my ONT data corrected to show 4-port with available ports. Until then I'm stuck in FTTPoD unless I want to run the gauntlet of cease and restart or give up and do a regrade meaning I am then stuck with Cerberus on Port 1 for 12-months (meaning no BT 1Gbps).
They have said it can take a week, and then they will chase.
Once done I can put a second service on Port 2 (Acquiss or Cerberus) at the bottom end of the speed scale and then attempt to get BT to take on Port 1.

Certainly isn't easy. And FTTP clearly no where near ready for mainstream. Every time I have rung BT they have given me a different reason! I know things are difficult but surely the reason for not proceeding would be consistent.

Good luck all with switches/regrades/moves.

Dave

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:

Cerberus have put a request in to have my ONT data corrected to show 4-port with available ports. Until then I'm stuck in FTTPoD unless I want to run the gauntlet of cease and restart or give up and do a regrade meaning I am then stuck with Cerberus on Port 1 for 12-months (meaning no BT 1Gbps).
They have said it can take a week, and then they will chase.
Once done I can put a second service on Port 2 (Acquiss or Cerberus) at the bottom end of the speed scale and then attempt to get BT to take on Port 1.

Certainly isn't easy. And FTTP clearly no where near ready for mainstream. Every time I have rung BT they have given me a different reason! I know things are difficult but surely the reason for not proceeding would be consistent.

Good luck all with switches/regrades/moves.

Dave

Yep i agree with you here, it's no way near ready for mainstream. I've received my BT sign up email stating my service wont be active till April 14th, though was told up to 3 days a few times on my calls with them.

Hopefully the up to 3 days is correct and not the email, horrible being on 4G!

In reply to a post by Ixel:

Nice to hear. I called Cerberus as I'm on the advised 10th working day and they told me that my order is pretty much on hold until the end of the contract term (in approximately one week) - this is a BT Wholesale restriction and nothing Cerberus can workaround.

Given that FTTPoD is an Openreach product with its own specific contract with them (edit to clarify, "them" meaning BT Wholesale), I would expect it is them (edit "them" in this case meaning Openreach) rather than BT Wholesale blocking any change.

(Just an opinion ).

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 07-Apr-20 18:51:44)

AAIU, Cerberus buy FTTPoD through BT Wholesale.

This is the reason they only offer the 330/30 variant: even though 330/50 FTTPoD is an Openreach product, BTW don't sell it.

And BT Wholesale have a contract with Openreach .

That's the underlying one, whatever the wholesaler.

Edit: I've edited my previous post to clarify .

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 07-Apr-20 18:49:26)

It'll be interesting to see what speeds i get on a like to for like connection but with the 50Mbit upload. I was getting about 285Mbit on the FTTPoD line, though it was over 300Mbit when my install was first completed.

I'm due to get my home hub tomorrow, but the activate date not till next tuesday. annoying when i was promised by Friday! BT will be getting a call tomorrow.

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Apr-20 20:08:13)

Damn bank holiday, that's the reason by line not being activated till Tuesday. I have 100gb 4G data left, and we use almost bang on 20GB per day... should be a close one. The EE data add on's are a rip off!

Cerberus have just dropped their prices - the 330/50 is now down to £55+vat. I inquired about regrading back to 330/50 from 150/30 (which was £54+vat) but they said I couldn't do this while in my 12 month contract which is a shame. Might be useful for those coming to the end of their initial FFTPoD contract.

In reply to a post by brookheather:

Cerberus have just dropped their prices - the 330/50 is now down to £55+vat. I inquired about regrading back to 330/50 from 150/30 (which was £54+vat) but they said I couldn't do this while in my 12 month contract which is a shame. Might be useful for those coming to the end of their initial FFTPoD contract.

Many thanks for spotting this - I'm coming to end of term in a couple of months.

Hopefully this means BTW have started passing on some of the Openreach price cuts.

Many I ask was £54+Vat the original service price that Cerberus charged you when you had the service installed?

No the original cost for FTTPoD is £100+vat pm for 12 months - I then moved to the slower 150/30 tier which was £54+vat pm.

Thanks. Just the information I needed.