YouFibre

There was a broadband outage today in Durham today and I spotted some engineers pulling fibre through the duct outside.
I've already got FTTP installed and thought they had caused the outage, anyway had a quick chat with the guy and although unrelated to the fault, it was interesting to hear that they are laying fibre through the full estate for a company called YouFibre.
Looking at their site https://youfibre.com/ it looks to have very competitive pricing and I will definitely be weighing them up when they activate at the end of the year.
Pricing looks good even excluding the introductory offers

Residential 1Gb Up, 1Gb down for £50 (£30 introductory)

Business 1Gb Up, 1Gb down for £100 (£75 introductory)
Business 10Gb Up, 10Gb down for £500 (£250 introductory)

Has anyone heard of them or got an experience of their product yet? It does look like they're just started.

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

There was a broadband outage today in Durham today . . . .

Covered a wide area (we are 40miles N of Newcastle and lost internet connection) and reportedly affected BT/TalkTalk backhauls. Anecdotally due to a small fire at a BT site in Newcastle.

We had connection restored at 14:06.

Edit: From the local BBC News site:

15:04

SharedData centre fire leads to internet and phone woes

A fire at a data centre in Newcastle has caused problems with the internet and phone lines across parts of the North East.

Internet provider TalkTalk said the issue had occurred in a part of the Virgin Media network and it had been working hard to fix the "cable break".

BT's service status website also confirmed it had been affected by an outage in the Newcastle and Jesmond areas.

The problem began just before midday, and was described as particularly troublesome given the number of people still working from home.

It has now been resolved and TalkTalk thanked users for their patience.

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 23-Jul-20 15:49:15)

yeah, I figured that bit out, I'm more excited about the prospect of a new ISP offering fibre.

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

There was a broadband outage today in Durham today and I spotted some engineers pulling fibre through the duct outside.
I've already got FTTP installed and thought they had caused the outage, anyway had a quick chat with the guy and although unrelated to the fault, it was interesting to hear that they are laying fibre through the full estate for a company called YouFibre.
Looking at their site https://youfibre.com/ it looks to have very competitive pricing and I will definitely be weighing them up when they activate at the end of the year.
Pricing looks good even excluding the introductory offers

Residential 1Gb Up, 1Gb down for £50 (£30 introductory)

Business 1Gb Up, 1Gb down for £100 (£75 introductory)
Business 10Gb Up, 10Gb down for £500 (£250 introductory)

Has anyone heard of them or got an experience of their product yet? It does look like they're just started.

Yep, I am signed up and just waiting for the physical install! Due in a couple of weeks after an initial 4 week delay (duct issues underground prevented pulling the fibre easily, so need to dig in some places)

Amazing price, even when (if) it returns to full price of £50/month!

That's encouraging. Whilst they are pulling through my estate now, I suspect it'll be nearer December before I can order.
As I've already got an Openreach ONT, I guess I'll need a 2nd one installed for YouFibre. For the price, I'm tempted to get it installed on day 1 rather than waiting for my Cerberus contract to end in March.
You'll have to keep me up to date with how your installation goes and any issues.

I will do!

For the price, I was actually tempted by their 10Gbps business for 250/month on a 36 month term! Realised that was absolute madness, so settled for 2 x 1Gbps, which is not madness....surely?

My install was delayed for a second time unfortunately, issues again with the underground ducts. So they then need planning permission from the local council, adds extra time to each install.

They have the planning application in now for next week, so lets see what happens!

are youfibre putting in their own fibre or will they take over a bt fttp service if asked

Looking at there 'Symmetrical Speeds' (same Speed Up & Down ) on there website I would say there own.

Edit , Just sent them an email because I am interested.

Edited by APTMAN (Sat 08-Aug-20 12:15:41)

In reply to a post by threelegs:

are youfibre putting in their own fibre or will they take over a bt fttp service if asked

Their own fibre. Netomnia are laying it all around the area. Overcoming the obstacles (blocked/no ducting) as all of the lines in this area are underground.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Looking at there 'Symmetrical Speeds' (same Speed Up & Down ) on there website I would say there own.

Edit , Just sent them an email because I am interested.

See above, definitely their own. they are working like mad to get everything sorted, lots of delays so people are getting a bit frustrated. Once they get the service they will realise it was worth the wait and can say goodbye to their naff FTTC/Broadband connections!

Seems it went on sale a little early, should probably have let the engineers finish their surveys first! As they find blocked ducting, or none at all, they then have to apply for planning from the council and give 2 weeks' notice to do the work.

It is moving though, they are in the area constantly and working like mad.

Can't wait!

For reference they seem to be providing ADTRAN 621i ONT's (certainly for the residential service) and the routers are Eero Pro's.

Doesn't surprise me at all given how long it took openreach to clear the blockages when installing FTTPoD for me. Unfortunately, on older estates it is to be expected.
Just wait until people realise trenches will need to be dug to get the fibre into the house.

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

Doesn't surprise me at all given how long it took openreach to clear the blockages when installing FTTPoD for me. Unfortunately, on older estates it is to be expected.
Just wait until people realise trenches will need to be dug to get the fibre into the house.

Yep! They have plans from BT who done the work years ago, the plans aren't exactly matching what they are finding. So digging all over!

They can rebuild my whole house if it means I can get 1000/1000 FTTP!!

Digging starts on Thursday in the street, expected to last 2 days then I will be connected. Even left them some duct to use as I just had a drive laid!

Got a reply back.
YouFibre
Are we doing WBC FTTP?- > No we don't, it is our own Fibre in only a few area's..

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Got a reply back.
YouFibre
Are we doing WBC FTTP?- > No we don't, it is our own Fibre in only a few area's..

Busy digging up the bottom of my street as we speak, working their way up. One permit at a time, about 90metres per permit (3 days' worth!) so not long now.

I can literally see them straight out of my front window...it's torture waiting ha!

Good luck. I've signed up with them as showing interest. Wonder if they will ever come to my area.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Good luck. I've signed up with them as showing interest. Wonder if they will ever come to my area.

End of Sep-ish now! issues in the street, about another 2/3 lots of digging to do!

In reply to a post by Banger:

Good luck. I've signed up with them as showing interest. Wonder if they will ever come to my area.

Another change, for the better!

Work starting again from Monday, install will be done by 21st to my property.

At last!

Mine was due to be installed today, but it's been delayed, again. I feel like they have underestimated the work involved.

This time I've had an email from the CEO offering a free month for every month I'm delayed, however it doesn't state is this going to be back dated to my original installation date, not a great start....

I feel like now it's gonna be 2021 before I get it.

In reply to a post by Easen:

Mine was due to be installed today, but it's been delayed, again. I feel like they have underestimated the work involved.

This time I've had an email from the CEO offering a free month for every month I'm delayed, however it doesn't state is this going to be back dated to my original installation date, not a great start....

I feel like now it's gonna be 2021 before I get it.

Have they said how long? They definitely have underestimated the work. I think (rightly or wrongly) what they have done was gone off the plans that BT gave them, showing where the underground ducts were etc.

They even showed me some plans, showing were duct should have been...then showed me on their detector, nothing there!

This has caused them a massive headache, cos what should have been mainly just feeding the fibre through existing ducting, has turned into mainly needing to dig and lay new duct to feed the fibre through. Then each time they do this, there’s planning permission needed (think they are fast tracked mind?)

What they do appear to have done, is what their customer service manager said and that’s stop accepting new orders for now, so they can clear the backlog for everyone who has already signed up.

Keep an eye on one.network for your area, showing next two weeks and. Next 3 months (signup for free to show this)

Hope its sorted soon!

No they haven't given me a new date. To be honest I would rather them spent a bit of time to verify the BT plans/ducts, plan what equipment they need, work out when it's going be delivered/installed and give me a date. Even if they said its going to be September 2021 due to issue x,y,z.... that would be better than just adding 6 weeks to previous installation date.

Yeah I know they're allowed to use BT ducts, however I've seen them dig up 200m of grass near where I live to lay a new duct, but BT laid a new duct in the same area only last year, in prep for GFAST I guess (which was never rolled out). So basically the BT ducting is sitting their, I wonder if they're only allowed to use the ducting that was laided down 5+ years ago.

Yeah I've used one.network, but the job descriptions are truncated. Durham CC has a similar site https://durhamvi.symology.net/ which I find to be more accurate and has the full descriptions of the jobs.

Keep us updated on your installsation is progressing. I am quite eager to see what their ping times are, I've seen a few screenshots of a few speedtests and they are always around ~20ms which is basically no change from VDSL2.

This seems to have gone quiet, though several were interested in progress. How have installs gone?

I live in Durham (like the OP), and on a 1990 built estate. Youfibre were pulling fibre through the BT ducts today, and as mentioned above, finding some blocked, and three manhole covers in people's gardens. Apparently that has in the past led to boundary issues when house owners found out that the front couple of yards of their garden belonged to BT, and was then dug up!

Happily I have a duct from the junction box in the hole through which the fibre was pulled into my house, so FTTP would be easy enough. BUT also I have 80/20 FTTC which operates at around 60/18 so there isn't such a great need to get full fibre from a newcomer.

I don't understand how YouFibre having sole rights to this fibre fits in with the government wanting competition. Had it been Openreach that put it in, it seems everyone could use it.

I don't understand how YouFibre having sole rights to this fibre fits in with the government wanting competition. Had it been Openreach that put it in, it seems everyone could use it.

That is just the sort of competition Ofcom are encouraging - alternative FTTP providers to OpenReach.

In reply to a post by ian72:

That is just the sort of competition Ofcom are encouraging - alternative FTTP providers to OpenReach.

We will end up like the USA, where each town can only get internet from one provider, and if you have a problem with that network / ISP, you have to move town!

The regulated open network seems such a better idea, I can't imagine anyone but Ofcom wanting to "compete" it away.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I don't understand how YouFibre having sole rights to this fibre fits in with the government wanting competition. Had it been Openreach that put it in, it seems everyone could use it.

That is just the sort of competition Ofcom are encouraging - alternative FTTP providers to OpenReach.

But this isn't competition unless other providers can also use that fibre, unless other suppliers also run fibre through those ducts. That would be like having to have a gas pipeline from each potential supplier. Wasteful and ridiculous. When the copper network is switched off there would be no competition from where I sit. I do not want to only have a single supplier. Then my "choice" is take it or leave it. They can just ramp up the price with no risk of me leaving for a different supplier.

I do not want to only have a single supplier. Then my "choice" is take it or leave it. They can just ramp up the price with no risk of me leaving for a different supplier.

And there’s the rub ......

I think the focus is on increasing full fibre coverage at present.

At the network operator level it is competition otherwise the only provider across the whole country would be BT. At the local level it isn't competition but OpenReach don't seem too concerned about that. I fully see the issue with only one provider being available with no wholesale options but this has been what Ofcom have essentially been trying to encourage for years - areas where OpenReach don't currently have FTTP services get incentivised for other smaller providers to step in but those smaller providers don't have to provide wholesale and even if they did most ISPs wouldn't take it up (as seen with other altnets) because it just adds complexity to the ordering, billing and support processes.

But in most places other providers use BT's telephone cables. They don't need to install new wires along each road and into each house.
I live in Durham - it is a City. Our estate has 80/20 FTTC. It is NOT one of the target areas for the Ofcom encouraged and government promised universal connectivity. They should be in the villages that hardly get internet let alone broadband.
I hope that YouFibre are doing this at tehir own cost and risk, and not being paid or subsidised to provide this - it would be an utter waste of money.

All installed here. Went with 1Gbps at first and then went onto 10Gbps, because, well why not? Ha! After suffering with rubbish speeds forever I have absolutely zero concerns now, obviously!

Blisteringly fast! Overkill? Absolutely yes. But being able
To download games from Origin/EA at 500ish MB/sec is amazing, given the size of the games it’s needed!

Downside is of course some places just cannot handle this sort of speed (yet), even speed test servers are few and far between which can handle the speed. Steam seems to max out at about 150MB/sec. blizzard (luckily only needed to download 1 free game from here!) is horrendously slow, but that appears to be their [censored] servers.

I can access my nas from anywhere at whatever download speeds I have available, as upload is not an issue anymore (always had max of 10-12Mbit). Family can store their stuff and access on demand, no concerns.

Really pushing the speeds needs tests from things like torrent or usenet; with multi threads coming down. Drive speed would be a bottleneck so NVME’s are the only way to go with mechanical discs just acting as slower data storage.

No regrets, absolutely love it!

In reply to a post by Fellwalker:

This seems to have gone quiet, though several were interested in progress. How have installs gone?

I live in Durham (like the OP), and on a 1990 built estate. Youfibre were pulling fibre through the BT ducts today, and as mentioned above, finding some blocked, and three manhole covers in people's gardens. Apparently that has in the past led to boundary issues when house owners found out that the front couple of yards of their garden belonged to BT, and was then dug up!

Happily I have a duct from the junction box in the hole through which the fibre was pulled into my house, so FTTP would be easy enough. BUT also I have 80/20 FTTC which operates at around 60/18 so there isn't such a great need to get full fibre from a newcomer.

I don't understand how YouFibre having sole rights to this fibre fits in with the government wanting competition. Had it been Openreach that put it in, it seems everyone could use it.

In reply to a post by Safcsat:

Thanks for the update. The NAS access sounds interesting and until I got one the upgraded Internet would also speed up other online backups, though I've no interest in the game downloads. There's been no activity here since November and no leaflets so I guess they've learned from previous experience.
Have you needed a fancy router or do they provide a decent one?

In reply to a post by Easen:

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

Any updates?

In reply to a post by Fellwalker:

In reply to a post by Safcsat:

Thanks for the update. The NAS access sounds interesting and until I got one the upgraded Internet would also speed up other online backups, though I've no interest in the game downloads. There's been no activity here since November and no leaflets so I guess they've learned from previous experience.
Have you needed a fancy router or do they provide a decent one?

The sheer speed available just allows me to do whatever I want really, probably stuff I haven't even thought of yet. Love it.

The router they provide is an Eero Pro for the consumer and business lines uptown 1Gbps, anything over that and you use your own kit. They provide the ONT of course.

I am using the new QNAP QHora-301W - seems really good and stable so far!

Thanks.
I can certainly understand the Qnap for its VPN and security when using your NAS.
Not sure I'd want the provided Eero with Amazon to be so central to my home network!

Nice 10Gbps might be a bit overkill for me, but if you can get it, why not!

I'm still waiting for mine to be installed, but I can see them out of my window a few street away, so hopefully I'll be connected in a month or so.

Whats your ping times like? I seen screenshots of speedtests that were around 20-30ms (I'm assuming the person who took the screenshot was on wifi or is using a power-line adapter, etc.)

Whats the ONT that they supply? I've read somewhere thats it's a AdTran 621X which has a 1x1GE and a 1x10GE port. I'm only asking as I'm just about to pull the trigger on a Mikrotik RB4011iGS+RM (upgrading from a Mikrotik hEX) and I'm thinking it might be better to get a router that supports being able to connect to a WAN device at 10GE (however the RB4011iGS+RM only has 1 x 10GE port).

In reply to a post by Easen:

(however the RB4011iGS+RM only has 1 x 10GE port).

The RB4011 is a very cool device - I have it (although I am not using the 10GE port).

There is one caveat. The ten 1G ethernet ports go via internal switches, but those switches can't do VLAN filtering. This means that if you want to have the same subnet appear on multiple ports, then the bridging between them has to be done in software. It can cope - it has 4 cores after all - but a single bridged iperf stream in this mode achieves only around 800Mbps and maxes one core.

This was an odd choice, given that some of the cheaper routers - even the hEX Lite or hEX PoE - have VLAN-capable switches. The full table is here. I also have the hEX PoE, which has a single slow core, but it can switch at wire speed.

Anyway, just think of the RB4011 as a router with 11 ethernet ports. If you want high-performance switching, then connect an external switch.

Slight correction. If I bring out the same VLAN as access ports on the same switch (I tested ether6 and ether8), then CPU load is about 40% on one core, with about 800M of iperf traffic running across. The other cores are idle.

If I bring out the VLAN as an access port on one switch (ether6) and a trunk port on the other switch (ether 3), that's when I see 100% on one core when running iperf between them.

Either way, this is switching in software, not hardware.

Edited by candlerb (Thu 08-Apr-21 10:07:55)

Thats really odd as their test results suggest that the RB4011 can route way more traffic than the hEX.

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm#fndtn-test...
https://mikrotik.com/product/RB750Gr3#fndtn-testresults

Reading their wiki it looks like the RB4011 has 2 switch chips "RTL8367 (ether1-ether5); RTL8367 (ether6-ether10)", I guess this is why you are getting differences in speed and CPU usage if you try to route traffic between the two chips, where as the hEX has 1 chip (MT7621).

It also says that the MT7621 and the RTL8367 are the same feature wise, (both support port switching - I think that means hardware offloading?), however I suspect RB4011 uses the CPU to 'bridge' the two switch chips, hence the pinned 100% cpu usage under load from ether3 & ether6.

I'm not planning of running VLANs at the moment, I just need a router that can support wireguard & fq_codel (RouterOS 7) at 1Gbps speeds.

Would you still recommend it?

In reply to a post by Easen:

Thats really odd as their test results suggest that the RB4011 can route way more traffic than the hEX.

Routing, yes; switching, no. (Switching = traffic between devices on the same subnet; routing = forwarding traffic between different subnets).

There are some other limitations, such as "fasttrack" forwarding only being supported for IPv4 not IPv6, and not on bridge vlan interfaces. But even without it, a single core on the RB4011 can route or switch nearly a gig (v4 or v6) in one TCP stream - and you have three cores left over for other traffic.

The hEX PoE can route nearly 900M of v4 with fasttrack, but route less than 300M of v6.

In reply to a post by Easen:

Would you still recommend it?

Yes: the price/performance ratio is still very good. The software switching performance is good enough for what I need, and I could always partner it with an external real switch if necessary.

Not sure if I can help anyone on here with any queries?

I’m the YouFibre Area Sales Manager for the North East.

YouFibre aim to provide FTTP at an affordable price so people can work and play from home without having to suffer the burden of slow internet, buffering and poor connectivity.

We’re always growing day by day on the number of properties we’re able to supply to, don’t get me wrong there has been and will be a few bumps along the way, but I’m sure those already connected with us will confirm that it’s worth waiting for.

If anybody wants any more information please don’t hesitate to get in touch either with our customer service and sales teams or contact me directly.

Please note this isn’t a sales pitch, the product kind of sells itself 😊

Netomnia (who provide the network sold by YouFibre) are currently installing the network in Stroud (Gloucestershire), and have already some up & running in Stonehouse & Cheltenham. I've seen a lot of vans around my road with "Light Source working for Netomnia" and new cabling going up telephone poles with new boxes at the top. I would expect my area to be live within a month or so.

The nice thing to me about a brand-new install is that I don't need to have my existing FTTC ISP disconnected when the new line is installed - I can make sure YouFibre is running nicely, but keep my network to network VPN and various RDC (secured by blocking IP addresses other than mine) working until I've added the new fixed IP address and tested them.

Yes, you can help. I am fully signed up for youfibre in a village near Spennymoor County Durham. My install target date beginning of Sept, keeps being delayed. Every month it is delayed a month and that month passes with a new install date target of next month. Now they say Jan, but possibly delayed futher. I have not renewed my VDSL contract and am suffering mobile broadband while I wait for youfibre to connect me. This was supposed to be a 1 month wait. What is the reason for the holdup? Some people have been signed up since Feb!!